Coneygree - is World Hurdle an option

It is an option yes for sure. If he was mine then I would keep novices to novice company though. He's only 5 years old and got a long career ahead of him, why rush him so much? It was the same with Grands Crus and the Gold Cup last season. Yes no Big Bucks there, but would Coneygree as a novice beat the likes of Quevega, Big Bucks, Oscar Whiskey, Smad Place. In my mind no so therefore stick to novice company and take a well earned easy win in the Albert Bartlett.

He is by far the most impressive novice their has been this season and the way he beat Aerial who is a very decent yardstick as a chaser giving him 7lbs was impressive. I don't think he quite got the recognition he deserved for his 2 wins so far this season when you compare him to the two irish horses across the sea...

Quevega will stay in mares race, Oscar Whiskey doesn't stay 3 miles and Big Bucks isn't around to race against. Take this three out plus an under performing Voler La Vedette and you have a glorified handicap. Big Buck's defection will likely see Grand Crus, Tidal Bay go the hurdle route imo and I would have Coneygree over both of them.

His three victories this season have been hugely impressive and this time next year he could be on the sidelines just like BB.

Why would Quevega not go for the World Hurdle now when she gets 3 miles and wins the Punchestown equivalent at a canter every year?

Oscar Whiskey wouldn't be trying to outrun a stamina machine like Big Bucks so no reason why he shouldn't get 3 miles, he doesn't stop over 2m 4f and without Big Bucks there the race could turn in to a very tactical affair which would suit a horse like Oscar Whiskey.

Conor O'Farrell has also said on twitter that it's likely that Dynaste could go back over hurdles now. I can't see that myself. The only way Grands Crus will go back over hurdles I feel is if he flops as badly as he has done at Cheltenham in the king george. I can't see that given the way he won the feltham last year.

If you was Mark Bradstock what would you rather do? Win a festival race with a homebred horse from Lord Oaksey at the first festival since his death. It would be very emotional and I really don't see any other novice at all beating him. Or chuck him in at the deep end against seasoned 3mile horses setting the race up for them from the front going at a strong gallop?

Coneygree is likely to have an entry in the Ladbrokes World Hurdle in the absence of four-time winner Big Buck's.


Coneygree: Could step out of novice company
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Mark Bradstock's exciting novice maintained his unbeaten record over hurdles in impressive style at Cheltenham on Saturday, proving his stamina in no uncertain terms.

His Festival opportunities had looked to be either the Neptune Novice' Hurdle or the Albert Bartlett, but connections will now consider taking on his elders in the World Hurdle.

"He's very full of himself and while he doesn't like being told to take it easy he will have a quiet two weeks now," said Sara Bradstock, the Oxfordshire trainer's wife and assistant.

"He will have one run before the Festival - hopefully it will be around the end of January, or maybe something like the Challow Hurdle (Newbury).

"He's earned a crack at a race like that, but it depends how he is.

"He was most impressive (on Saturday). We wanted to see if he'd stay three miles and I don't think there's any doubt now.

"It is wonderful for the future to know there are no stamina doubts.

"He actually works better on good ground at home but like his brother (Carruthers) he likes the fact the soft ground slows the others down.

"In answer to the question, 'Would we be tempted by the World Hurdle now there is no Big Buck's?', I suppose we'd have to be.

"He'll certainly have the entry, and I know a few of the owners would be keen, but it may be better to keep our powder dry."

Have you seen the knee action on it, on better ground and against better horses Icouldn't consicer him whatsoever

incredibly over-rated  horse imho.

It would be nice to have a fairytale but I side with CR and duffy, unless the ground is very slow.

overrated by who? What do you want him to achieve that he has n't achieved so far? He has 2 Grade 2 Novice Hurdle wins and a rating of 146.He's available at 16/1 for Neptune and 12/1 for Albert Bartlett - he's actually two points longer than Don Cossack for the Albert Bartlett which after their respective performances at the weekend is mind boggling.

Which one of the two do you think the market is overrating?

As I stated on another thread, we had the same story with Brindisi Breeze after he won in a bog at Haydock last year,the second coming that was Boston Bob - there's another overrated animal - was supposed to gallop all over him.

Overrated to me is an animal who is priced on perceived potential and hyped by the media accordingly. Coneygree has already achieved more than most novice hurdlers.

Agree with that but we are talking on this thread about him in relation to running and being competitive in a world hurdle, therefore if his performances are by some people regarded as being worthy of a place in that race I'd say that made him over-rated in that sense....anyways as i said earlier , look at the knee action, the sheer physics of how he moves would make it unfathomable to compete at the necessary level in any race at the festival, on better ground of course, which would be likely....unless he can change from his legs coming down like giant vertical pistons from a great height into legs that skip over the ground more which is highly unlikely.

would n't know enough about the knee action to form a definitive opinion. I do know that 'unfathomable to compete at the necessary level at the festival on better ground' is a big statement. I also know that his sire's progeny have a slightly better win % on Good to Firm than they do on Heavy.

Agree about the World Hurdle - suspect they'll go novice route anyway.

Just think calling the horse overrated is unfair when there are many other candidates to whom that label could be more reasonably applied.

I agree with the over-rated statement being applied to others...I'd stick SDC in that category too.

Colldogg

Mullins says Quevega goes Mares route (http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/2/8341710/quevega-to-run-in... whilst Dai Walters i think will want to go Champion route with OW as the going is more likely to be soft than anything else. And yes it is 11 weeks away but we would need one hell of an indian summer to get all the moisture that is already in the ground

Now if it is soft then Coneygree ticks all the boxes and Bradstocks are going to go chasing next year anyway so why not go World Hurdle route now.

Rease has pretty much summed all my thoughts up on this thread without me really having to add anything more. Agree with the Brindisi Breeze comparison and I was suckered by that in to not backing him last year because it was rammed down our throats that Brindisi Breeze's action wouldn't hold up on faster ground at the festival. What a load of tosh that turned out to be!

The horse beat a horse rated 155 over hurdles and giving him 7lbs. The distance of his victory on Saturday did not do his performance justice. To say he is overrated I think not, if anything the 12/1 available for him to win the Albert Bartlett is vastly underrating him. He has already achieved more imo than Boston Bob did before Cheltenham last year and he went off 6/5!!

Betty, why would you risk him on his 3rd/4th hurdle start against the likes of Oscar Whiskey, Zaidpour, Tidal Bay etc? We had this whole debate last year with Grands Crus going for the RSA/Gold Cup. As it turned out they made the right decision going for the RSA because he couldn't even win that let alone the Gold Cup. There is no reason to take him out of his comfort zone and go for the World Hurdle. Mark Bradstock isn't a greedy trainer and I'm sure he will see that and do what's best for the horse's long term development.

Why would it be a risk

Zaidpour falls into the overrated category for me. I wouldn't be worried if he took on Quevaga over 3miles on soft ground so Zaidpour wouldn't worry me in the slightest and the same for Tidal Bay.

With Big Buck's out of the way any of the better novices' could consider the World Hurdle route an option, as it happens I think Coneygree is the best of that sector along with Clondaw Kaempfer (who will not be going 3 miles). As for Grand Crus, never rated him as a Gold Cup horse or an RSA horse for that matter so not a similar arguement. It could so happen that the World Hurdle route turns out to be the easier option.

As for the horse being ground dependent, this maybe the case, but who is to say that come March we are not racing on similar ground as he has experienced on his last two starts. Then again, he may be even better on better ground

brindisi breeze's action and coneygree's action are like chalk and cheese.

Unless the horse can alter his action he can't be better on faster going, it's not a case of the horse thinking "oh, i like the feel of this" its how he moves, it's the physics of it, having said that,sometimes a horse can alter how he moves, mikhail d'haguenet did it when he won the neptune, but that image of coneygrees legs pounding the ground from an exaggerated great height would have to a change.

and the likelyhood of it being faster than slow good to soft in March is nil

we'll see, I know we've had all this rain but we've seen it before, pi55es down all winter then we get a fortnights dry spell before the festival and it all drys up!!

Duffy, you seem to ber forgetting that we also had a very wet spring, summer and autumn this year.

Look at how much rain it took to change the going at the Paddy power meeting to Heavy - not alot.

The ground at Prestbury is sodden, the water table is as high as it has ever been and it would need to have minimal rain between now and march for soft not to appear in the going description, Simon Claisse has already said this and it expects it to be slowest going on the first day he has experienced

If we had a heatwave between now and march the word soft would still appear in the going description

True Duffy. Maybe they do it to keep animal rights happy. Oh yeah, and here out in the Sahara race track it's currently gd/sft, and there's no signs of that changing.

I'm with betty here.

It is taken as given that Cheltenham will provide 'good Spring ground' and hence some horses will be priced accordingly. I think there is a very good chance that we will have much softer ground than usual and so there may be value in looking for prices on horses deemed to like soft ground.

Oscar Whiskey in the CH would be a good example