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After today's shocking news; this one deserves it's own thread. Strange to think of this race as a serious betting proposition after the Inglis Drever/Big Buck's domination this past decade.
I wonder this might fall right into Oscar Whisky's lap. Struggled last year and paid the price for trying to stay in touch with BB. As I've said elsewhere, he'll find it hell of a lot easier to get 3m without Big Buck's in the field.
Will Pipe consider redirecting Dynaste from his novice chase season?
The likes of Smad Place and Quevega to find that their targets are reassigned?
I wonder this might fall right into Oscar Whisky's lap. Struggled last year and paid the price for trying to stay in touch with BB. As I've said elsewhere, he'll find it hell of a lot easier to get 3m without Big Buck's in the field.
Will Pipe consider redirecting Dynaste from his novice chase season?
The likes of Smad Place and Quevega to find that their targets are reassigned?
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Surely BG knows if Oscar Whisky stays or not?
To me it looked like he was a nonstayer,but i have read that his trainer thinks he werent right on the day.
Personally think if its decent ground its possible they might have another crack,and if its soft he will run in the CH.
Leave him in both and decide when they have a good idea what the ground will be sounds sensible to me.
To me it looked like he was a nonstayer,but i have read that his trainer thinks he werent right on the day.
Personally think if its decent ground its possible they might have another crack,and if its soft he will run in the CH.
Leave him in both and decide when they have a good idea what the ground will be sounds sensible to me.
He gave me the impression on Saturday that he should be getting further and if Big Buck's wasn’t there then you’d definitely be going for the World Hurdle again.
Geraghty's blog on ATR website - mind you he also said in next breath that soft ground CH would also suit
Geraghty's blog on ATR website - mind you he also said in next breath that soft ground CH would also suit
So leave it till near the time makes sense then,if thats what hes saying.
"He'll certainly have an entry for the World Hurdle, anyway, but if the ground was like it was at the weekend in March he'd run in the Champion Hurdle.
Quote from the owner^
That will do me.
Quote from the owner^
That will do me.
Coneygree is likely to have an entry in the Ladbrokes World Hurdle in the absence of four-time winner Big Buck's.
Coneygree: Could step out of novice company
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Mark Bradstock's exciting novice maintained his unbeaten record over hurdles in impressive style at Cheltenham on Saturday, proving his stamina in no uncertain terms.
His Festival opportunities had looked to be either the Neptune Novice' Hurdle or the Albert Bartlett, but connections will now consider taking on his elders in the World Hurdle.
"He's very full of himself and while he doesn't like being told to take it easy he will have a quiet two weeks now," said Sara Bradstock, the Oxfordshire trainer's wife and assistant.
"He will have one run before the Festival - hopefully it will be around the end of January, or maybe something like the Challow Hurdle (Newbury).
"He's earned a crack at a race like that, but it depends how he is.
"He was most impressive (on Saturday). We wanted to see if he'd stay three miles and I don't think there's any doubt now.
"It is wonderful for the future to know there are no stamina doubts.
"He actually works better on good ground at home but like his brother (Carruthers) he likes the fact the soft ground slows the others down.
"In answer to the question, 'Would we be tempted by the World Hurdle now there is no Big Buck's?', I suppose we'd have to be.
"He'll certainly have the entry, and I know a few of the owners would be keen, but it may be better to keep our powder dry."
Coneygree: Could step out of novice company
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Mark Bradstock's exciting novice maintained his unbeaten record over hurdles in impressive style at Cheltenham on Saturday, proving his stamina in no uncertain terms.
His Festival opportunities had looked to be either the Neptune Novice' Hurdle or the Albert Bartlett, but connections will now consider taking on his elders in the World Hurdle.
"He's very full of himself and while he doesn't like being told to take it easy he will have a quiet two weeks now," said Sara Bradstock, the Oxfordshire trainer's wife and assistant.
"He will have one run before the Festival - hopefully it will be around the end of January, or maybe something like the Challow Hurdle (Newbury).
"He's earned a crack at a race like that, but it depends how he is.
"He was most impressive (on Saturday). We wanted to see if he'd stay three miles and I don't think there's any doubt now.
"It is wonderful for the future to know there are no stamina doubts.
"He actually works better on good ground at home but like his brother (Carruthers) he likes the fact the soft ground slows the others down.
"In answer to the question, 'Would we be tempted by the World Hurdle now there is no Big Buck's?', I suppose we'd have to be.
"He'll certainly have the entry, and I know a few of the owners would be keen, but it may be better to keep our powder dry."
PN suggesting that Wonderful Charm could run, can't help but have a small piece of that at 55 on here.
why is voler la vedette the bet at general 12/1
was n't there talk from JP/Jonjo/AP camp earlier in the eason of having a crack at this with the infamous GMOOH?
This is a odd looking AP market with BB out and a host of others at the head of the market Q,GC,PC,ROP+OW all possible starters in other races,so for me VLV+TS who barring injury will defo line up. Ive bet both early doors(topped up on VLV after its last disappointing performance(excuses on the day for me)so Im in a reasonable AP position. VLV if running well next time out(cant see any entries ?)and with others being rerouted will go off at less than 8.0 and TS about 13.0 so giving me good trading oppurtunities,dont expect either to actually win the race but good trading oppurtunities even at the present prices.
I think TS could easily win at the risk of following the horse over a cliff in this race. I'm still convinced him and OW paid the price for going with Big Bucks and with him not around will fight out the finish here.
Any chance of VLV being rerouted to the Mare's if Quevega is aimed at this?
Don't quite understand why it will be easier for OW to get the trip with BB not being there, It's still 3miles around Cheltenham at championship pace. He was a blatant non-stayer for me last year, can't see whats different this time around. Smad Place, VLV, Thousand Stars all likely to re-oppose him and they beat him fair and square.
I'd like to see OW try the CH again, he's a much improved hurdler since the last time he ran in the race.
In terms of the Stayers market, I think GMOOH and Trustan Times are very intersting, both around 16's.
I'd like to see OW try the CH again, he's a much improved hurdler since the last time he ran in the race.
In terms of the Stayers market, I think GMOOH and Trustan Times are very intersting, both around 16's.
Thousand also looked a non stayer yet has won in France over 2f further twice. Can't be a coincidence that the two placed horses stayed on from miles back whilst those who were promient tired very quickly (apart from BB of course). VLV should still be in the shake up but ca't see Smad Place finishing in front of TS or OW again.
Just watched the race again and will have to conede to GIMAC. They didn't run as promiently as I thought. Oscar Whisky didn't stay and I can only assume Thousand Stars was too keen throughout the race or this race is just a lot better than the FCH.
Henderson has 3 CH candidates other than Oscar Whisky. He believes strongly that OW was amiss last year in WH and is reportedly annoyed that some hacks don't believe him. 7/1 now will be 7/4 on the day
Steeple,
This wont be decided to near the day imo,when they know the likely going.
Soft ground gives OW a major chance in the CHurdle,and imo would be his trainers main chance of victory.
This wont be decided to near the day imo,when they know the likely going.
Soft ground gives OW a major chance in the CHurdle,and imo would be his trainers main chance of victory.
"Henderson is reportedly annoyed that some hacks don't believe him"
Laughable. Such a trustworthy trainer...
Laughable. Such a trustworthy trainer...
OW looked OK when he won at Aintree after the stayers, I don't buy this theory he wasn't right.
it truely is amazing if oscar doesnt stay as you just simply wouldnt believe it the way he finishes his races over 2 m 4 f
Saturday's ground was described by R Walsh as the worst Cheltenham ground he's ever ridden on. OW gave weight and a severe beating to a couple of decent horses - hardly platers despite his SP. At the weights OW had 8lbs and 6lbs in hand respectively of CA Jack and Brampour. He won on the bridle having done what he did at Ascot, quickening up a fair way out and coming well clear.
Given the awful ground, and the style of his victory, are we to believe he cannot get 3.5 furlongs more on much better going?
Apart from his trainers' other 3 CH reps, this is going to be a very hot Champion Hurdle. Sure, they will wait till much nearer the time but, on balance, what would you say he's most likely to go for? There's a risk and one that might not be worth taking at 7/2, but it's a no-brainer at 7/1 imo
Given the awful ground, and the style of his victory, are we to believe he cannot get 3.5 furlongs more on much better going?
Apart from his trainers' other 3 CH reps, this is going to be a very hot Champion Hurdle. Sure, they will wait till much nearer the time but, on balance, what would you say he's most likely to go for? There's a risk and one that might not be worth taking at 7/2, but it's a no-brainer at 7/1 imo
After watching him at Cheltenham and then winning at Aintree back at his distance,i wont be punting my fav horse at 3m.
Reve de Sivola looked impressive yesterday,must be a big player,would Big Bucks have lost his unbeaten record???
I thought it was a very strange decision by Mullins to send Zaidpour to the Champion Hurdle last year, when the World looked much more up his street.
If it comes up soft on World Hurdle day, I think he'd have to have a chance, although he has got some ground to make up with 1000 stars, based on their French run.
He won a decent renewal of the Hattons Grace, and hopefully with Bucksy out of the way, he might fulfill some of the potential he looked to have in his early novice hurdling days.
If it comes up soft on World Hurdle day, I think he'd have to have a chance, although he has got some ground to make up with 1000 stars, based on their French run.
He won a decent renewal of the Hattons Grace, and hopefully with Bucksy out of the way, he might fulfill some of the potential he looked to have in his early novice hurdling days.
And yes Budd, you'd have to put Reve De Sivola right in the mix now.
Had some very useful form in his novice days, and every time I watch a rerun of his Neptune, turning for home I still don't know how he didn't win.
Very impressive yesterday, and result was no fluke, although I doubt the others would give him such a big lead next time (although it wasn't a soft lead imo).
With questions of the staying ability of some of the others, you know he'd be one galloping all the way to the line.
Had some very useful form in his novice days, and every time I watch a rerun of his Neptune, turning for home I still don't know how he didn't win.
Very impressive yesterday, and result was no fluke, although I doubt the others would give him such a big lead next time (although it wasn't a soft lead imo).
With questions of the staying ability of some of the others, you know he'd be one galloping all the way to the line.
Just been reading Barry Geraghty's blog on ATR, which was written before Big Bucks was injured
"OSCAR WHISKY won the Relkeel Hurdle for the second time just as he liked. He’s in great form and was perhaps a little brave at one or two – including the last – but he was very good. It’s probably not fair to condemn him over three miles because the feel he gave me on Saturday was that he’d be fine over that distance on good ground.
I don’t think he ran up to his best form in the World Hurdle last season. I’m not for one moment saying he should have beaten Big Buck's but he’s certainly as good or better than the second that day, Voler La Verdette but he didn’t get to the last. He gave me the impression on Saturday that he should be getting further and if Big Buck's wasn’t there then you’d definitely be going for the World Hurdle again.
That said, if it was soft ground in Marth then you’d fancy a crack at the Champion Hurdle. Whatever he does and wherever he goes he’s a fine hurdler of the highest rank and is going to be extremely difficult to beat over his ideal trip of two and a half"
"OSCAR WHISKY won the Relkeel Hurdle for the second time just as he liked. He’s in great form and was perhaps a little brave at one or two – including the last – but he was very good. It’s probably not fair to condemn him over three miles because the feel he gave me on Saturday was that he’d be fine over that distance on good ground.
I don’t think he ran up to his best form in the World Hurdle last season. I’m not for one moment saying he should have beaten Big Buck's but he’s certainly as good or better than the second that day, Voler La Verdette but he didn’t get to the last. He gave me the impression on Saturday that he should be getting further and if Big Buck's wasn’t there then you’d definitely be going for the World Hurdle again.
That said, if it was soft ground in Marth then you’d fancy a crack at the Champion Hurdle. Whatever he does and wherever he goes he’s a fine hurdler of the highest rank and is going to be extremely difficult to beat over his ideal trip of two and a half"
Well Betvictor go 6 OW with a free bet to your stake if he doesn't run (needs to be used the same day)
well its clear to me its all about the ground,we wont know what race he will be in till the goings known.
Noticed that Bog Warrior is being entered up in more hurdle races over in Ireland, a bit speculative but I have thrown a few quid on him at 290 for this.
After Lovcen put in a poor display of jumping yesterday on his chasing bow, I would imagine that they would be thinking of keeping this fellow over hurdles this season. He could reasonably claim to be amongst the best staying novice hurdlers of last season and with the majority of those claiming the same either chasing or dead (
), he would likely be the best representative of that generation in the race. Lots of ifs and buts, but at the price, 70s, worth a tickle.
), he would likely be the best representative of that generation in the race. Lots of ifs and buts, but at the price, 70s, worth a tickle.
Very interesting race over in Ireland today, could see a new favourite for this
Whisky could bypass Cheltenham Festival
BY LEWIS PORTEOUS 9:59AM 29 DEC 2012
NICKY HENDERSON has warned that his dual Aintree Hurdle winner Oscar Whisky may bypass this season's Cheltenham Festival, underlining that a third victory at Aintree remains the main objective for the Dai Walters-owned seven-year-old.
Much debate has centred around which Cheltenham race - the 2m½f Champion Hurdle or the World Hurdle over 3m - would be most suited to the 13-time winner but Henderson says he and Walters have considered missing the meeting altogether.
"There's a definite opinion that there might not be a race for him at all," Henderson told The Morning Line on Saturday. "Both Dai and I have discussed it at length. You have to conclude that at two and a half round there [Cheltenham] he's as good as you get.
"I just can't work out the World Hurdle last year. He wouldn't have won at two and a half and finished absolutely drunk. I don't think it was stamina. I 'm not saying that he's going to come back to three as I don't think he will."
Discussing potential targets before Aintree's Grand National meeting, Henderson added: "We have mapped out a plan where the principle objective is to try and win the Aintree Hurdle for a third year.
"The plan was to go to Cheltenham on New Year's Day, then to Ffos Las for the Welsh Champion Hurdle, then we've even said maybe the National Spirit and leave Cheltenham out of it. But if it came up soft at Cheltenham I think you'd be right in saying he'd have to come into the Champion Hurdle picture."
Paddy Power make Oscar Whisky their 5-1 joint-favourite for the World Hurdle and a 14-1 chance for the Champion Hurdle.
BY LEWIS PORTEOUS 9:59AM 29 DEC 2012
NICKY HENDERSON has warned that his dual Aintree Hurdle winner Oscar Whisky may bypass this season's Cheltenham Festival, underlining that a third victory at Aintree remains the main objective for the Dai Walters-owned seven-year-old.
Much debate has centred around which Cheltenham race - the 2m½f Champion Hurdle or the World Hurdle over 3m - would be most suited to the 13-time winner but Henderson says he and Walters have considered missing the meeting altogether.
"There's a definite opinion that there might not be a race for him at all," Henderson told The Morning Line on Saturday. "Both Dai and I have discussed it at length. You have to conclude that at two and a half round there [Cheltenham] he's as good as you get.
"I just can't work out the World Hurdle last year. He wouldn't have won at two and a half and finished absolutely drunk. I don't think it was stamina. I 'm not saying that he's going to come back to three as I don't think he will."
Discussing potential targets before Aintree's Grand National meeting, Henderson added: "We have mapped out a plan where the principle objective is to try and win the Aintree Hurdle for a third year.
"The plan was to go to Cheltenham on New Year's Day, then to Ffos Las for the Welsh Champion Hurdle, then we've even said maybe the National Spirit and leave Cheltenham out of it. But if it came up soft at Cheltenham I think you'd be right in saying he'd have to come into the Champion Hurdle picture."
Paddy Power make Oscar Whisky their 5-1 joint-favourite for the World Hurdle and a 14-1 chance for the Champion Hurdle.
The likelihood of a soft ground festival is increasing by the day and think OW is a decent price for CH. for sure he'll be much much shorter if he does line up
GI Mac, I notice Bog Warrior is fav over hurdles at Punchestowns today, you bet could look very nice this evening. In the same race another forgotten horse could perhaps show off his potential WH claims, the returning Solwhit
Really interesting race today between a number of horses which might turn up for the world Hurdle. Punchestown race also includes Simenon who they seem to be persevering with over hurdles as well as the aforementioned Solwhit
The World Hurdle still has a very confusing picture. Many of the best prospects for the race might not even be aimed at it, I really like Tidal Bay if he turns up he will be a clear top rated in the race if so and will certainly get the trip. Very ground dependent as a wager because sounded like if it was really soft Nicholls was more likely to suggest the GC as the target.
The World Hurdle still has a very confusing picture. Many of the best prospects for the race might not even be aimed at it, I really like Tidal Bay if he turns up he will be a clear top rated in the race if so and will certainly get the trip. Very ground dependent as a wager because sounded like if it was really soft Nicholls was more likely to suggest the GC as the target.
just backed BW,good run today sees current price gone
Paddy Power introduced Bog Warrior into their betting for the Ladbrokes World Hurdle at 12-1 but winning trainer Tony Martin is unsure as to what his future holds.
"He's a very good horse," he said. "Whether he goes back over fences or stays over hurdles it is all in the balance but after that performance he will be able to go for something nice."
"He's a very good horse," he said. "Whether he goes back over fences or stays over hurdles it is all in the balance but after that performance he will be able to go for something nice."
Monksland going straight to Cheltenham trainer says.
Bog Warrior running very well this year over hurdles. Bit of an unknown quantity on course and ground but 12/1 more than compensates.
Yeh,backed him at 34 on here,think hes a big player,especially if its on the soft side.
Also got him at 66 for the Gold Cup nrnb,just in case they decide to go back chasing.
Like the horse.
Also got him at 66 for the Gold Cup nrnb,just in case they decide to go back chasing.
Like the horse.
Big fan of Wonderful Charm & on at fancy prices win & place. Had wind opp & entered in hcap over 2m 6f @ Huntingdon on Thur. Think he looks a future star based on that Chepstow run. Hoping he'll turn up with Ruby on his back ;-)
I'm with you splinter...I think WC would have a great chance of running in this with BB out and TB(bleeding last I heard) and even if recovered , my guess would be Gold Cup for him, I know the stats are against a 5 yo , but looks a natural to slot in here....
Solwhit only 50/50 to go Cheltenham re trainer Sporting life website today,Aintree main target.
Billies have gone 11/2 on RDS.
Going to have some more on EW if I can.
Going to have some more on EW if I can.
I thought Peddlers Cross outclassed and outstayed RDS in the Neptune so he would be the one for me if he wins well next week
That was nearly 3 years ago though Swagger.
Peddlers Cross faces little opposition tomorrow so not sure what it will tell us other than if his jumping is still slick.
Peddlers Cross faces little opposition tomorrow so not sure what it will tell us other than if his jumping is still slick.
Think it's a decent price about RDS, he's done nothing wrong this season, winning two of the best trials and runner up behind BB in the other.
I like RDS too. But is he really going to be much shorter on the day? Cant see it myself, so would rather wait.
It will be a 4/1 the field race if OW,RDS,TB and Monksland all run.
re Monksland .. other than Zaidpour who has a shocking record going left-handed, what has he actually beaten? Is he Group 1 class ? not sure myself.
re Monksland .. other than Zaidpour who has a shocking record going left-handed, what has he actually beaten? Is he Group 1 class ? not sure myself.
Agree that RDS can't get that much shorter if all the others stand their ground. For starters there is still some uncertainty surrounding TB inclusion or otherwise. If he were a certain runner I can't see him going off bigger than 7/1. Think in all honesty that RDS might lose out to a plunge on either OW or TB on the day. Can see the money pouring in for OW to turn the form around on better ground and a slightly more aggressive ride.
Funny sint but i have a totally different view of Monksland. With luck in running in the Neptune, he would definitely have been second - baulked at the top of the hill and badly interfered with when Cotton Mill ran out but ran on well in the end. He will definitely improve for better ground and is relatively unexposed.
Well, having read what PFN has just said in his blog i'd be sceptical of backing TB whether he runs or not. He might be using the race as a prep now so and in all honesty I think he is in the wrong race anyway.
11/2 about RDS still decent eachway material whether his odds lengthen or not.
11/2 about RDS still decent eachway material whether his odds lengthen or not.
I backed him ante-post in that race FF. He was interfered with but i'm not sure he is Grade 1 material just yet. He is lightly raced though.
Fair enough it was 3 years ago Sintonian but since then he ran Hurricane Fly close and had Oscar Whisky well behind over 2 miles and I think he simply lost his way over fences last season - if you put a line through his fencing form his hurdling form remains top draw and he finds off once coming off the bridle. If he stays the trip then I think he is the horse to beat myself. I couldn't fancy Oscar Whisky on any ground, it's rare to see a bridle horses winning this race and I also backed Monksland in the Neptune, couldn't fancy him for this race either, not sure he acted that well on the track. RDS looks an ew bet to nothing, i just have my doubts if he can remain in a competitive position on good ground (assuming it is decent ground) once he comes off the bridle.
I think McCain will get the pacemaker to set a decent gallop tomorrow as all he will simply want to find out is whether or not he thinks Peddlers Cross will stay 3 miles at Cheltenham
I think McCain will get the pacemaker to set a decent gallop tomorrow as all he will simply want to find out is whether or not he thinks Peddlers Cross will stay 3 miles at Cheltenham
What did you make of that today Swagger? His jumping is clearly intact but i'm not sure he is as good as he was.
Sintonian, I will copy and paste my argument re Zaidpour LH from his own thread
" I think those form figures for going LH are slightly bias to be honest and don't tell the whole story. Only three runs have been outside the top 2. the 7 and 8 were both 2 miles at Cheltenham, and he just doesn't have the toe for that, whilst the 5 was in France on his 8th run of the season, so I'm more than happy to write that off to a long season catching up to him. "
I may end up wishing I hadn't wasted my money on him but I think having taken TS out today Mullins only really has So Young and him as probably candidates for the race, and at the odds I'd sooner be on him at 33's than Monksland at 6's!!
Personally I think if the going begins with the word soft then RDS will be difficult to beat.
" I think those form figures for going LH are slightly bias to be honest and don't tell the whole story. Only three runs have been outside the top 2. the 7 and 8 were both 2 miles at Cheltenham, and he just doesn't have the toe for that, whilst the 5 was in France on his 8th run of the season, so I'm more than happy to write that off to a long season catching up to him. "
I may end up wishing I hadn't wasted my money on him but I think having taken TS out today Mullins only really has So Young and him as probably candidates for the race, and at the odds I'd sooner be on him at 33's than Monksland at 6's!!
Personally I think if the going begins with the word soft then RDS will be difficult to beat.
fair do's Nostaw. It was a strange decision to run him in the Champion last year.
I agree. I thought maybe he was just entered last year for pace making duties for HF but once the race started it was clear that they actually thought it was his best distance 
Difficult one to judge wasn't it Sint. On the face of it, it looked a poor performance to only beat such an inferior rival by a small margin but in those type of trials a lot of horses only do enough to win unless they are a flashy type like Oscar Whisky. The pleasing aspects were the quick hurdling as you say and that he found plenty when asked any sort of question off the bridle and he could be a horse who needs a trip these days. The negative would be that he was asked to come off the bridle against such a horse - was he merely idling or is he not as good as he was?
I agree that on all known form this season RDS is the horse to beat but at 14/1 PC is worth a little dabble in my opinion as i think his current ability remains an unknown going into the race
I agree that on all known form this season RDS is the horse to beat but at 14/1 PC is worth a little dabble in my opinion as i think his current ability remains an unknown going into the race
Paul Nicholls has received the news that Tidal Bay has a tiny stress fracture and is out of the Grand National
I have got some bad news to report. Tidal Bay is out of the Grand National.
As previously mentioned, he was slightly lame before the Argento and we couldn't get him ready in time for that race, or the Irish Hennessy.
He was out cantering as usual on Monday and Tuesday, but on Wednesday we decided to step up his work.
But his work rider came back up and said he didn't feel right.
So we immediately called in Buffy and, after discussions, we got him down to Newmarket today for an MRI Scan.
The news through from Buffy is that Tidal Bay has a tiny stress fracture of the lower cannon bone on his right hind leg. This is something that the X-rays we took before his problem in the Argento didn't pick up; only today's MRI did.
He needs a month's box rest, so that rules out the National.
As soon as I got the news, I immediately rang Mr Wylie and we agreed to release this statement as soon as possible.
I have got some bad news to report. Tidal Bay is out of the Grand National.
As previously mentioned, he was slightly lame before the Argento and we couldn't get him ready in time for that race, or the Irish Hennessy.
He was out cantering as usual on Monday and Tuesday, but on Wednesday we decided to step up his work.
But his work rider came back up and said he didn't feel right.
So we immediately called in Buffy and, after discussions, we got him down to Newmarket today for an MRI Scan.
The news through from Buffy is that Tidal Bay has a tiny stress fracture of the lower cannon bone on his right hind leg. This is something that the X-rays we took before his problem in the Argento didn't pick up; only today's MRI did.
He needs a month's box rest, so that rules out the National.
As soon as I got the news, I immediately rang Mr Wylie and we agreed to release this statement as soon as possible.
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