Is this another nail in the coffin for Horseracing Ante post betting

build injury into your price and if you like the price all is fair.

I'm not talking about me just people that are starting to bet ante-post on big races at cheltenham then find *special* prices on the day with Bookies and the safety that has + With horseracing as a dying sport

You're talking about NRNB ?

Some people like it, it has it's merits.

And anyone who bets ante-post, myself included, accepts the fact injury can strike at anytime.

Silly Thread,Anyone who's a serious ap punter knows the pitfalls that comes with it.

cheltenhamroar if you think its silly why waste your time saying it !  This thread is not about serious ap punters ! Its the bread and butter punters im more worried about

works both ways polly those who have layed big bucksand al ferof will not be complaining !

Sintonian i take the risk like you but im thinking hills / lads etc seem to come up with better odds on the day of a big race with special offers

Foyleswar  totally agree but i'm thinking more bad headlines and its happening a lot !! more and more people Might move even more over to bets on other sports

Surely bread and butter punters won't be going in on a 4/5 shot like Big Bucks.

A decent AP bet is taking a price on a horse that you think will be shorter on the day. Always has been and always will be imo.

yeah it is gutting to not get a run for your money polly its happened to me plenty of times ,but if you are on betfair you can lay of for your stake at least sometimes ,in the bookies you are fecked ,but nonners will benefit some and hurt others . i am always happy to take the chance if the price is wrong !or right for me .

Roobuck  why are you saying 4/5  i know two people who had 10 pounds on Al ferof for boxing day ! These people are fun punters but might not come back in a hurry ! As for me Foyleswar i'm like you and ive done £100 on Big bucks for the world hurdle but hey it wont stop me

That's gambling in general. If you don't want to lose don't bet. Antepost betting takes injuries etc all into account hence why you should hopefully be getting bigger prices. Not sure it will drive people away from horseracing but it may teach them a lesson.

polly,and what if the same people you know that have 10 quid on al ferof were to back him on the day instead and he refused to race?
That's just the way racing is,it's a gamble.

Depends what price they took polly.

Must say its bad luck on nicholls to visit his Stables and find TWO of his top horses not only injured but with long term injuries

These punters who follow Tom Seagull got a bum steer, Sizing Europe isn't injured he just ain't coming over! How much have the bookies made on that one!? I don't follow him by the way, I met him in a coffee shop in Ascot with the bloke with no lips who told me to back a horse for the weekend and believe it or not the horse didn't make the cut! Pair of pwicks

Polly why have £100 @4/5 at this stage of the season? I personally look for big prices (and small stakes) with the knowledge that if I win with one its worth the hits on the way.  I've recently had a nibble for the champion hurdle at a 150/1 shot - if it wins a G1 before the festival (which it did last year) then Im on a good position to green out if I wanted.  If TGB runs and gets beat this week I'll be looking at its price for the Gold Cup (again for small stakes).  Just my thoughts on AP betting - no real expectations but a bit of interest/dreams for the festival.

Didn't make the cut so got your money back - what's the problem?

Roo I was talking about the fact no lips give me a horse and it being a n/r not about antipost. Should of made it clearer.

Who's the bloke with no lip? Willoughby?

Yes Rease

Anyone who took evens/odds on BB AP have learned a lesson......thats AP punting Im afraid.

Crowman you bet differently to me ! I Bet to get winners and i took 10/11 on what i saw as a 2/7 shot so i have no moans ! I'm not interested in all this rubbish about greening out !! I would be in stocks if that gave me a kick ! I know a guy who has never backed a winner since he came on betfair because  he sells everything ! Thats not gambling or fun IMO

Yes smart but you said it was a n/r because it didn't make the cut.Happens a lot but if you backed it you lost nothing. I still don't see the issue.

Don't understand this thread. This is the risk of ap betting, it's factored into the price. With regards to BB's I CAN understand people having a ton on this early, come the day what would it be, 1/3?No possible hoss to "hype up" in opposition this year.. However what's happend today is the risk of antepost betting.

No problems Polly. However, I personally see  picking long prices, to small stakes, on AP bets as more of a gamble and fun than picking odds on/even money shots but as you say we bet differently. Hope both methods (the shortball and the longball) bring a profit.

Cheers Crowman i make a small living so i have no moans but i dont understand people questioning this thread !! In the days of racecourses shutting more and more people moving from horseracing to football etc for betting it seems head in the sand stuff to ignore things like this if you care

Some people will stake build on a certain horse and I see no problem with that at shorter odds, as long as you are willing to take the risk of injury. I was doing it with quevega with Hills as to me, she WOULD have been under 1/2 on the day so £50 a month for a few months at evens seemed a decent plan. Clearly this may not work out now, and I won't be having any more on until plans are almost definitive, but knew the risk/reward.

If £100 was your entire bet for the race then I'd question it slightly. But if it was 1/4 say then seems like a perfectly logical plan at evens on Bucks.

Tory for me if Bucks got to post he wins so i agree its all in the price in this instance !! On a slightly different point i dont think we have heard the end of this almighty coincidence of the two horses being injured on the same night !!

Polly Pocket [talk]

You say you have no moans but the seethe is pretty strong in this thread. Horrendously bad luck and you just have to say to yourself chin up and on to the next one

Flemenstar i can only say you are wrong / My thread i think is fair being that ante-post punters lost Al ferof / sizing europe / big bucks from major races in 24 hours  / If that doesn't hurt ante-post punters then so be it / This thread was more general . I have my own thoughts

And flemenstar  i see you are new to betfair and maybe like GREENING and using CASHOUT
Please dont come on here taking the **** out of me
You dont know me and if it was my purse i was talking about i would say so

You've lost some money - get over it and stop whingeing.

It won't make a blind scrap of difference to the future of the antepost markets (in fact it might actually encourage more layers to enter it) or have any great impact on the future of horse racing so stop trying to hide your obvious seethe behind a fake concern for the 'bigger picture'.

Think it's a good time for this:

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Still using that boring drawing ! I see the single fiqure IQ people have come on so time to go

The fun of antepost betting is the risk that goes with it. Everyone knows that there's a chance your horse might not make the race, but you're getting a better price than you'd get on the day because of it. If the rules were changed, nobody would lay a decent price, resulting in nobody bothering to bet antepost.

ACSTAFFORD i agree with that but people will only take so much losing of stakes before walking away and i'm not talking about the fanatics on betfair !! I had 8/13 on sprinter sacre here on Betfair last time at sandown  and was thrilled with that ! But it suits the layers to come on here and try and put me down because for a lot of them with info that most dont have its easy money with no risk

Followed this thread with interest and i'm sorry polly, you can explain it to me in a thousand different ways but people will always bet ante post. It's human nature a) to be greedy (wanting better odds than on the day) and b) to boast (about how you backed this one down at all prices from 100/1 after you saw it win its Bumper).

Injuries to two horses - however sad for connections and those who humm and whirr to jumps racing - will not affect these basic human instincts one jot.

Roger i agree with all you say
what are your reasons for racecourses closing
Punters running away from Horses
most people i know do not take racing as a serious betting medium where as they think football / Tennis etc gives them a fair shot where the odds are not stacked against them

very sorry about the injuries to two smashing racehorses and it does diminish the spectacle to some extent that neither will be involved.

However, from a punting perspective (for me at least) it makes both antepost and day of race markets for Mares Hurdle and World Hurdle a far more appealing and competitive betting proposition.

It's also possible that new stars will emerge in both races.

pollybournemouth
Joined: 06 Feb 10
Replies: 164 18 Dec 12 11:06   
Roger i agree with all you say
what are your reasons for racecourses closing 

The market finding a sustainable level of commercial interest, sectional interest within the sport of racing (to the point where compromise is seen s surrender), asinine marketing and the fixed costs associated with a huge lumpen asset for starters.

Ante-post betting would come about 756th on my list.

Well look fair enough Roger - clearly i'm the only person on betfair that thinks this way or the rest are gutless ! My final point is IMO anyone betting on horseraces ante-post is a total mug - How could ANYONE bet on a Cheltenham race with this happening and not getting a wake up call is a fool

I don't believe the falling popularity in horse racing has anything to do with antepost betting. Its just an unfortunate sign of the times. Years ago, if you wanted a bet, horse racing and greyhound racing were the only real options; now football, other sports and those awful FOBT machines are easier options to the new punter, as they understand them a lot better. I don't know about everyone else, but I assume this is quite common: I got into betting on horses and then became a fan of the sport shortly afterwards, when I learned more about it. In my opinion the problem is that most young people now won't bet on horse racing (and therefore never get into the sport), because they already know about football, or understand how a roulette wheel works.

pollybournemouth 18 Dec 12 11:42 Joined: 06 Feb 10 | Topic/replies: 168 | Blogger: pollybournemouth's blog

Well look fair enough Roger - clearly i'm the only person on betfair that thinks this way or the rest are gutless ! My final point is IMO anyone betting on horseraces ante-post is a total mug - How could ANYONE bet on a Cheltenham race with this happening and not getting a wake up call is a fool

Forgive me if im wrong,But did you not just say you backed Big Bucks Ante post?

Yes he did CheltenhamRoar and then wrote that it wont stop him. Ante Post betting is not a mugs game at all you just need your horse to avoid bad luck.
Ante Post that paid off for me

Numbersixvalverde 25-1GN
Newmill 33-1 CC
This year CHDL Countrywide Flame 40s

Where its gone wrong
Lothario Derby it never saw a racecourse
Workforce 33-1 2000Gs never ran but won the Derby but I never backed it Ante Post.

I expect Lothario was a big success at stud though?

"My final point is IMO anyone betting on horseraces ante-post is a total mug"

Don't agree at all. In general people gamble much less then normal on AP bets due to their high risk nature. It's all about money management. Where else can you back a horse @ 20/1 or more for a race, which subsequently turns out to be 2/1 fav on the day. I do about 20 horses AP (not NRNB) a year for Cheltenham (same stake)and on average 20% of my bets are void come race day. That leaves me with 16 horses at prices much higher then SP. After laying off these bets the most i lose are the 4 void bets which can be covered easily with 1 winner or a couple of places. It's priceless fun and excitement as you are watching your horses running for months beforehand. GLTY

*on average 20% of my bets are void come race day.

My math was off a tad. It's more like 25-30%, but you get my drift. GL.

This could end up rivaling the after timers thread for this years BF comedy award,Thanks OP for the laughs i needed some today :D

as an ante post backer i am used to and expect a small percentage of my bets to not make the gig ! but a few big priced winners make up for it ! its part and parcel of the game ,i love the challenge of trying to find big priced horses sometimes many months before a race ,bit like stepping into a boxing ring ! you are going to have to take a few hits , my brother in law a non gambler saw me lose a fair amount on an ante post bet that got scratched and said if it was me i would have the hump for days after that ,he asked how long will it take me to get over it ,about 30 seconds i said ,if ya cant take the hits ya shouldnt be in the game !

^ Exactly.

Spot on Foyles.

Horses will always get injured, that will never change. What does give ante post betting a bad name, is when horses are listed in markets that have been retired or sometimes even dead.

I love how polly calls anyone who bets antepost a mug after saying she has bet ante post, It just about sums this thread up.

To say ante post betting is driving punters away from horse racing is ridiculous. The vast majority of ante post punters are regular gamblers who know the game inside out. You know when your putting an antepost bet on that their is a great deal of risk involved with it and that their is no guarantee your horse will make it to cheltenham/the national/the derby injury free.

I backed Neptune Collones to win the national at 50/1 last year in January. The only thing that annoyed me most was that he went off as high as 33/1 on the day! There is nothing that matches the enjoyment though of having a big antepost bet come in.

interesting thread...well nothing that has been said I disagree with, that is ante post racing i am afraid...

I know a lot on here ridiculed the thread i put up on the other ante post site but am definitely more careful now where I place my money ante post as don't believe there is the value people perceive in the markets...for example big bucks was 4-6 ante post all last year and was 1.85 on the day

for me those taking 4-5 on big bucks need there heads taking, don't take offense to this polly as isn't a dig its just that waiting 5 months to try and pick up 80 pounds just isn't good betting and certainly not for me because the returns are so little and skill minimal... he isn't a 2-7 shot on the day either he maybe in your head but a lot can happen with horses improving and obviously what has happened here. I'm just gutted I hadn't taken the 27 on smad place... yes he has won the last 3 years at varying prices but all short and there will be good 4-5 shots running each week that make far more appeal if that is your thing...

what i will say is betting on the week of racing ante post is now betting I don't believe in...there is no value left and why risk your money on a potential non runner which is the same and if not nearly the same on the day give or take a point of advantage...the thieves eek every last ounce from the markets and rightly so...

ante post will never die though as people love trying to get the perceived edge on singles and also trying to win the shop on a life changing acca...the risks are high though as the chaos in the RSA market will tell you...

much more pain to come that is for sure this is just the beginning...but others will love it...big bucks layers for sure

i'm still having the stitches removed from my rather sore bottom, from backing michel le bon in the hennessy...it tames lions this game

^ Good post Harry - and it's not often I say that