Only ever run once on proper soft ground in an egg and spoon novice hurdle at Ascot.
Never encountered it last season. He is by Network, whose progeny usually handle soft ground well.
I don't think Hendo would risk him in a bog, unless it came up heavy at Cheltenham in March. My guess is he'll cuff Sanctuaire at Sandown whatever the ground but we'll have to wait and see.
Well considered post eh?Only ever run once on proper soft ground in an egg and spoon novice hurdle at Ascot.Never encountered it last season. He is by Network, whose progeny usually handle soft ground well. I don't think Hendo would risk him in a bog
Yes mate, meeting up with some pals from Bristol on the Friday. I like the racing on the Friday best of the 3 days. Will go for some of Saturday card but not all of it - I live 2 miles from the course, so it is easy for me to get there whenever I want. Usually miss the Sunday but will make an appearance if the monster is running.
Fortunately my missus has long since realised that it is pointess expecting me to go anywhere with her when the racing at HQ is on!
Yes mate, meeting up with some pals from Bristol on the Friday. I like the racing on the Friday best of the 3 days. Will go for some of Saturday card but not all of it - I live 2 miles from the course, so it is easy for me to get there whenever I wan
I'm an annual member H and usually watch the racing from the lawn in front of the grandstand. Easy to get to the pre-parade ring and parade ring from there. If the monster runs on Sunday, I'll watch his race from the inside of the track.
I'm an annual member H and usually watch the racing from the lawn in front of the grandstand. Easy to get to the pre-parade ring and parade ring from there. If the monster runs on Sunday, I'll watch his race from the inside of the track.
Thats a real shame,was looking forward to the youngsters against the old pro!! And would have told us a lot as well. Any ideas what else is likely to turn up??
Thats a real shame,was looking forward to the youngsters against the old pro!! And would have told us a lot as well.Any ideas what else is likely to turn up??
Sunday is the best day! I would not sacrafice a single day at Cheltenham all year, but if you left me with no choice, it would probably be Saturday that i dropped (though logistically, that would not be possible). I am not being contrary, but I prefer the racing on the Friday and certainly the Sunday.
Sunday is the best day! I would not sacrafice a single day at Cheltenham all year, but if you left me with no choice, it would probably be Saturday that i dropped (though logistically, that would not be possible). I am not being contrary, but I prefe
pulled out on sunday because of the soft ground ,well i never, if they are chitting themselves to face doelessthaneme on soft the crapola will hit the fan when they have to face the mighty sanctuaire
pulled out on sunday because of the soft ground ,well i never,if they are chitting themselves to face doelessthaneme on soft the crapola will hit the fan when they have to face the mighty sanctuaire
heres some food for thought sprinter sacre fans ...........".i didnt have my horses right last season" paul nicholls speaking after al ferof won the paddy power .......... so am i right in assuming sanctuaire will be going to the tingle creek 100/% this season ........be afraid.......... be very afraid
heres some food for thought sprinter sacre fans ...........".i didnt have my horses right last season" paul nicholls speaking after al ferof won the paddy power .......... so am i right in assuming sanctuaire will be going to the tingle creek 100/%
I watched Sanctuaire's race at Sandown in April the other day on tape. His jumping was magnificent. As the cliche goes, he didn't touch a twig. At this distance I was more impressed by Sanct's jumping at Sandown than by Sprinter's at Cheltenham. When the two of them go head to head it could be a sight to see.
I watched Sanctuaire's race at Sandown in April the other day on tape. His jumping was magnificent. As the cliche goes, he didn't touch a twig. At this distance I was more impressed by Sanct's jumping at Sandown than by Sprinter's at Cheltenham. When
For those who really want to take the monster on, lay him on here! Suspect few, if any will have the balls to do it. I think the performances of AF, Cue Card and FNS this season have actually enhanced Sprinter's standing.
For those who really want to take the monster on, lay him on here! Suspect few, if any will have the balls to do it. I think the performances of AF, Cue Card and FNS this season have actually enhanced Sprinter's standing.
In a point relating to the Grands Crus thread, on horses peaking at different points of the year, and trainers targeting races, then this will be Sanctuaire's best chance of beating Sprinter imo (although I don't think he will).
Nicholls has won this 6 out of the last 7 years, so is a race he obviously targets. Sanctuaire could easily be another Twist Magic; absolutely immense at Sandown but then come up short in the QMCC. I think Sprinter would struggle to keep up with Twist Magic at Sandown when Twisty was at his peak.
I think the Sprinter camp are targeting the QMCC a lot more than the Tingle Creek, whereas I think the Sanctuaire camp imo will target the Tingle Creek more. If Finians and Sizing were to turn up (I know they won't, but...) I'd have Sanc fourth.
In a point relating to the Grands Crus thread, on horses peaking at different points of the year, and trainers targeting races, then this will be Sanctuaire's best chance of beating Sprinter imo (although I don't think he will).Nicholls has won this
Can't believe whatI am reading Wellchief. Sprinter Sacre barely out of a canter beat a Champion Hurdle 2nd and Neptune winner2, 2 Suprmme Hurdle winners one of which just won the Paddy Power plus a champion bumper winner without coming out of 2nd gear and you think he'd have trouble matching trides with Twist Magic?
Sorry mate but Sptinter Sacre who is already rated 180 "P" would be at least a stone or more better than Twist Magic who was a 170+ horse at best.
As far as Sanctuaire goes I wouldn't have him on my mind to even get Sprinter Sacre off the bridle. Horse won a race in bad ground on which is never a good idea to be taking the form seriously and a couple of meoderate chases. Prior to that he was beaten out of sight by both Binocular and Grandouet. He seems to have two ways of running the best of which we saw in the Fred Winter and at Sandown but neither comes remtely close to Sprinter Sacre's demolition job in the Arkle.
Can't believe whatI am reading Wellchief. Sprinter Sacre barely out of a canter beat a Champion Hurdle 2nd and Neptune winner2, 2 Suprmme Hurdle winners one of which just won the Paddy Power plus a champion bumper winner without coming out of 2nd gea
Cue Card,probably better over further. Menorah cant jump well enough. Al Ferof ended his race at a fence.
Yes it was an impressive round of jumping and a faultless display,but imo no better than Sanctuaire at Sandown.
I for one am really looking forward to this race,and will be there to witness what i think will be a great race between these 2,and to be honest from what ive seen with them over fences,i would have them both even.
So how good actually was the Arkle??Cue Card,probably better over further.Menorah cant jump well enough.Al Ferof ended his race at a fence.Yes it was an impressive round of jumping and a faultless display,but imo no better than Sanctuaire at Sandown.
yep,i shall be there prowling round the bookies with me hard earned looking for a nice price. what price you reckon he will be on the day? Also be interested to know who else is likely to line up,any ideas anyone??
yep,i shall be there prowling round the bookies with me hard earned looking for a nice price.what price you reckon he will be on the day?Also be interested to know who else is likely to line up,any ideas anyone??
Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctuaire over 2 miles. Much better horse but keep believing the hype. This just reminds me of the people who took on Sea The Stars and Frankel every race.
Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctuaire over 2 miles. Much bette
It would be nice to have the top established 2 milers in but if Finians & Sizing are being aimed at the King George, there is no chance of them lining up in this and suspect that the other runners will be makeweights running for the place money...probably pay down to 6th. The softer the ground, the poorer the price for Sanctuaire and if it comes up heavy, Hendo might duck it again. I'm no bookie either but whatever the ground, can't see him being bigger than 2/1 and that assumes they go very short on the monster.
It would be nice to have the top established 2 milers in but if Finians & Sizing are being aimed at the King George, there is no chance of them lining up in this and suspect that the other runners will be makeweights running for the place money...pro
I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so far on the racecourse. It puts him 6+ ahead of the Champion Chaser for example.(Grands Crus yesterday was an example of what can happen if you rely too much on collateral form).
I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so far on the racecourse. It p
Hype?? Sanctuaire has jumped round Sandown and won easily by a long way,twice. No hype for me,just impressed with his course and distance form and the way he jumps those fences.
Look,both these horses have been impressive,and jump really well. They are both novices coming into their senior years,are both open to any sort of improvement and have never met. You,me and everyone else do not know how they will perform first time up this season,and to me its folly to say for sure which one will win. One thing i am sure about though,is that whoever does win will be a top 2 miler,and to be honest i think they will both prove to be top notch as the season unfolds.
Hype??Sanctuaire has jumped round Sandown and won easily by a long way,twice.No hype for me,just impressed with his course and distance form and the way he jumps those fences.Look,both these horses have been impressive,and jump really well.They are b
strontium 18 Nov 12 10:05 I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so far on the racecourse. It puts him 6+ ahead of the Champion Chaser for example.(Grands Crus yesterday was an example of what can happen if you rely too much on collateral form).
Surely the ground conditions yesterday would have largely knocked the (collateral) form book out of the window?
strontium 18 Nov 12 10:05 I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so
To be honest, I'm getting a bit bored of this converstation now. There are clearly two sets of people, those in the Sprinter camp and those in the Sanctuaire, and until the race is over we won't know.
Rondetto, just an opinion. I wouldn't call Sprinters Arkle win as "barely out of a canter", he was made to work hard up the hill to keep the distance to Cue Card. You make it sound like it was a Master Minded QMCC win in 2008, when the others were barely jumping the last fence when he crossed the line. FWIW I've backed Sprinter at 14/1 for this year's QMCC and posted on here last year that 28/1 was available with B365.
I've said before I don't give a cr@p about ratings for Grade 1 horse, if one horse has a "p" after their name, what one person rates a horse compared to another. Imo Twist Magic was a proper Sandown specialist, who in 2009 beat that seasons QMCC winner 33 lengths.
To be honest, I'm getting a bit bored of this converstation now. There are clearly two sets of people, those in the Sprinter camp and those in the Sanctuaire, and until the race is over we won't know.Rondetto, just an opinion. I wouldn't call Sprin
Im not really in any camp,just a tad annoyed that some totally dismiss one or the other.Mostly Sanctuaire. To me its a race that either could win,and best approached that way.
Im not really in any camp,just a tad annoyed that some totally dismiss one or the other.Mostly Sanctuaire.To me its a race that either could win,and best approached that way.
Clearly Henderson would have preferred to have given SS a run before, presumably to deal with any freshness. Might that be an issue down the back?
Obviously nobody knows for sure the outcome but nothing wrong expressing an opinion beforehand. FWIW I think SS will win and tend to agree with MM in the comparison with Frankel and STS.
Won't be playing in the race, just watching intently
Clearly Henderson would have preferred to have given SS a run before, presumably to deal with any freshness. Might that be an issue down the back?Obviously nobody knows for sure the outcome but nothing wrong expressing an opinion beforehand. FWIW I t
Joci - yet Sprinter's new Timeform rating must be based on collateral form with Cue Card (and perhaps Al Ferof?), which makes it all a bit of a guessing game. I just find it odd that after winning a strong but small field Arkle and a few other weak races he's rated within 2 lbs of Azertyioup and Best Mate, 3 of Denman, 4 of Moscow Flyer and 7 of Desert Orchid - all arguably all time great chasers. I have absolutely no doubt he has the potential to earn such a rating, but in horse racing a horse usually earns its rating rather than having a coronation. Timeform seem desparate to give Sprinter a massive rating - and are setting it up.
WellC - just to be clear, I am in the Sprinter camp and expect him to win (as i said right at the beginning of this thread). However, I just believe Sanctuaire is better than many think and it could be a good - even spectacular - race. The horse has done nothing wrong over fences - he was magnificent at Sandown in March and April - and it seems odd (to me) for people to dismiss him so readily. Your point about Twist Magic could be pertinent - Sandown is a rather specialist course.
Joci - yet Sprinter's new Timeform rating must be based on collateral form with Cue Card (and perhaps Al Ferof?), which makes it all a bit of a guessing game. I just find it odd that after winning a strong but small field Arkle and a few other weak r
Moscow Flyer great horse but never one of my favourites as have bad memories of him costing me a big prize in the Ten To Follow by winning the Champion Chase that year when the two nags either side of him fell 2 or 3 out.
Moscow Flyer great horse but never one of my favourites as have bad memories of him costing me a big prize in the Ten To Follow by winning the Champion Chase that year when the two nags either side of him fell 2 or 3 out.
Anyone think Sanctuaires performances at Sandown give him an advantage over Sprinters lack of races there?? Personally think that could prove quiet important. If the race were at Chelt i would fancy SS to win,but Sandown and given Sancts performances there,really think its evens the 2. I would also like someone to explain to me which piece of form puts SS so far ahead of Sanct as to give Sanct no chance,as some of you say.
Anyone think Sanctuaires performances at Sandown give him an advantage over Sprinters lack of races there??Personally think that could prove quiet important.If the race were at Chelt i would fancy SS to win,but Sandown and given Sancts performances t
the handicapper has sprinter sacre 3 pound in front of sanctuaire we all know official ratings are not set in stone but the assesors are a a decent guide imo and are not usually to far wide of the mark ,but its a horse race and the unexpected happens often enough , both horses have room for improvement sprinter sacre may have more potential but who can be sure .if the official ratings are to be belived (and at this stage they are the best guide imo) then is the gap in prices for these 2 horses evens sprinter and 8s sanctuaire justified ? all about opinions but ya pays ya money and take your chance !
the handicapper has sprinter sacre 3 pound in front of sanctuaire we all know official ratings are not set in stone but the assesors are a a decent guide imo and are not usually to far wide of the mark ,but its a horse race and the unexpected happens
I've already politely asked budd about evens for the Tingle Creek howdi but he sort of dodged the issue.....but so would I at evens, you'd have to be feckin stupid!
I've already politely asked budd about evens for the Tingle Creek howdi but he sort of dodged the issue.....but so would I at evens, you'd have to be feckin stupid!
I never dodged the issue,i merely pointed out im no bookie and i may be wrong,and would not want to lose money finding out. Anyway as said,i dont need to lay SS,and ive never layed a horse in my life and probably never will,plus i will be getting better than evens on Sanctuaire,i would think.So i can just back him on the day if i want.
I never dodged the issue,i merely pointed out im no bookie and i may be wrong,and would not want to lose money finding out.Anyway as said,i dont need to lay SS,and ive never layed a horse in my life and probably never will,plus i will be getting bett
this race has got everyone that loves jumps racing talking! yummy yummy
great when questions get answered like this isn't it?
anyway, Sprinter is a complete monster for me with everything you want in a 2 mile chaser and he is the best I've seen since Moscow Flyer. Anyway, I expect him to win easily as I have him conservatively 10lbs clear on the bare form and he clearly could have produced bigger numbers as he was never once pushed out. I have it 175 Sprinter vs 165 Sanctuaire so I think he will win 4 lengths plus
we will see how accurate my numbers are on Saturday, can't wait
this race has got everyone that loves jumps racing talking! yummy yummygreat when questions get answered like this isn't it?anyway, Sprinter is a complete monster for me with everything you want in a 2 mile chaser and he is the best I've seen since M
Nicholls has been shouting his mouth off about Sanctuaire in the run up probably hoping to scare the rest off. He knows a 2 horse race can lead to strange results and it is the best chance of a win for him. Also the fact he says Sanctuaire goes straight to the Queen Mum after means he is hoping to go to Cheltenham with the psychological edge after today if there is an unexpected result so Sanctuaire will be fit to run for his life today. You will see the best of Sanctuaire regardless of the shoyte Nichols comes out with afterwards.
Mind games and bshit from Nicholls as usual unfortunately for him I think Sprinter Sacre is the better horse and the most beautiful top class fencer since Best Mate. However this is really a 2 horse race and unexpected things can happen lets hope not and we see a great horse in the making.
Nicholls has been shouting his mouth off about Sanctuaire in the run up probably hoping to scare the rest off. He knows a 2 horse race can lead to strange results and it is the best chance of a win for him. Also the fact he says Sanctuaire goes strai
My apologies I mis-interpreted your three words as that he'd win it
Would imagine a place is booked in in the QM given that it's unlikely both FR and SE will turn up
My apologies I mis-interpreted your three words as that he'd win it Would imagine a place is booked in in the QM given that it's unlikely both FR and SE will turn up
Masterminded 18 Nov 12 09:51 Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctuaire over 2 miles. Much better horse but keep believing the hype. This just reminds me of the people who took on Sea The Stars and Frankel every race.
Shame the layers didn't put their money where their mouth was. I thought Sanctuaire was going to win by ten lengths?
Masterminded 18 Nov 12 09:51Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctua
sanctuaire has blistering speed when needed sprinter is a brilliant horse - more of a stayer. BJG never let sanctuaire get too far away at sandown and then sanctuaire folded and didnt run his race. if the ground came up proper good ground and sprinter sacre didnt make enough use of himself.... just think what sanctuaire could do in a short space of time to sprinter sacre... sprinter sacre is clearly of the highest class but he is not going to beat sanctuaire over a short distance. if the race pans out in sanctuaires favour he could do him up the run in.
sanctuaire has blistering speed when neededsprinter is a brilliant horse - more of a stayer.BJG never let sanctuaire get too far away atsandown and then sanctuaire folded and didnt run his race.if the ground came up proper good ground and sprinter sa