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GI MAC
03 Oct 12 19:39
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Date Joined: 23 Sep 04
| Topic/replies: 4,257 | Blogger: GI MAC's blog
Scheduled to meet in the Tingle Creek, cannot wait for this. Who wins and why?
Pause Switch to Standard View Sprinter Sacre v Sanctuaire
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Report Masterminded November 9, 2012 5:14 PM GMT
Nothing will be beating Sprinter by 10 lengths on the bridle
Report Howdi November 9, 2012 5:15 PM GMT
christ flushgordon
Report festivalfanatic November 9, 2012 5:32 PM GMT
Well considered post eh?

Only ever run once on proper soft ground in an egg and spoon novice hurdle at Ascot.

Never encountered it last season. He is by Network, whose progeny usually handle soft ground well.

I don't think Hendo would risk him in a bog, unless it came up heavy at Cheltenham in March. My guess is he'll cuff Sanctuaire at Sandown whatever the ground but we'll have to wait and see.
Report Howdi November 9, 2012 5:41 PM GMT
festivalfanatic v flushgordon

No Offers v 200-1

Mismatch

sorry flush outclassed.
Report Howdi November 9, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
you heading to HQ next week FF?

Ive booked day off on Friday looking forward to it now.
Report festivalfanatic November 9, 2012 5:52 PM GMT
Yes mate, meeting up with some pals from Bristol on the Friday. I like the racing on the Friday best of the 3 days. Will go for some of Saturday card but not all of it - I live 2 miles from the course, so it is easy for me to get there whenever I want. Usually miss the Sunday but will make an appearance if the monster is running.

Fortunately my missus has long since realised that it is pointess expecting me to go anywhere with her when the racing at HQ is on!
Report Howdi November 9, 2012 5:55 PM GMT
lol same here as regards the mrs.

I'm in Oxford so 45 mins home for me, like you only ever been once on sunday but i'll be there if SS is running.
Report Howdi November 9, 2012 6:01 PM GMT
Ive always liked Best Mate enclosure by screen. which enclosure do u go to ff?
Report festivalfanatic November 9, 2012 7:02 PM GMT
I'm an annual member H and usually watch the racing from the lawn in front of the grandstand. Easy to get to the pre-parade ring and parade ring from there. If the monster runs on Sunday, I'll watch his race from the inside of the track.
Report mushroom23 November 15, 2012 5:19 PM GMT
Tingle Creek a 2 horse race now with Sizing being ruled out by De Bromhead
Report buddeliea November 15, 2012 6:33 PM GMT
Thats a real shame,was looking forward to the youngsters against the old pro!! And would have told us a lot as well.
Any ideas what else is likely to turn up??
Report R Carver November 15, 2012 8:22 PM GMT
Sunday is the best day! I would not sacrafice a single day at Cheltenham all year, but if you left me with no choice, it would probably be Saturday that i dropped (though logistically, that would not be possible). I am not being contrary, but I prefer the racing on the Friday and certainly the Sunday.
Report flushgordon1 November 17, 2012 4:54 PM GMT
pulled out on sunday because of the soft ground ,well i never,
if they are chitting themselves to face doelessthaneme on soft the crapola will hit the fan when they have to face the mighty sanctuaireLaugh
Report FOYLESWAR November 17, 2012 8:32 PM GMT
heres some food for thought sprinter sacre fans ...........".i didnt have my horses right last season" paul nicholls speaking after al ferof won the paddy power .......... so am i right in assuming sanctuaire will  be going to the tingle creek 100/% this season ........be afraid.......... be very afraid Excited
Report strontium November 17, 2012 8:37 PM GMT
I watched Sanctuaire's race at Sandown in April the other day on tape. His jumping was magnificent. As the cliche goes, he didn't touch a twig. At this distance I was more impressed by Sanct's jumping at Sandown than by Sprinter's at Cheltenham. When the two of them go head to head it could be a sight to see.
Report Far From Trouble November 17, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
Sprinter is an absolute brute - Sanctuaire wont know which way he went
Report FOYLESWAR November 17, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
mike tyson was a brute untill he met someone who was not scared of him and who could go toe to toe with him and we know what happened there !
Report festivalfanatic November 17, 2012 9:48 PM GMT
For those who really want to take the monster on, lay him on here! Suspect few, if any will have the balls to do it. I think the performances of AF, Cue Card and FNS this season have actually enhanced Sprinter's standing.
Report flushgordon1 November 17, 2012 9:52 PM GMT
have already said will be depending on ground sphincter sucker wont be able to bully sanctuaire on soft .
Report strontium November 17, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
Bobs Worth and Silvianco Conti enhanced Grand Crus' rep too.
Report wellchief November 17, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
In a point relating to the Grands Crus thread, on horses peaking at different points of the year, and trainers targeting races, then this will be Sanctuaire's best chance of beating Sprinter imo (although I don't think he will).

Nicholls has won this 6 out of the last 7 years, so is a race he obviously targets.  Sanctuaire could easily be another Twist Magic; absolutely immense at Sandown but then come up short in the QMCC.  I think Sprinter would struggle to keep up with Twist Magic at Sandown when Twisty was at his peak.

I think the Sprinter camp are targeting the QMCC a lot more than the Tingle Creek, whereas I think the Sanctuaire camp imo will target the Tingle Creek more.  If Finians and Sizing were to turn up (I know they won't, but...) I'd have Sanc fourth.
Report Rondetto November 18, 2012 7:51 AM GMT
Can't believe whatI am reading Wellchief. Sprinter Sacre barely out of a canter beat a Champion Hurdle 2nd and Neptune winner2, 2 Suprmme Hurdle winners one of which just won the Paddy Power plus a champion bumper winner without coming out of 2nd gear and you think he'd have trouble matching trides with Twist Magic?

Sorry mate but Sptinter Sacre who is already rated 180 "P" would be at least a stone or more better than Twist Magic who was a 170+ horse at best.

As far as Sanctuaire goes I wouldn't have him on my mind to even get Sprinter Sacre off the bridle. Horse won a race in bad ground on which is never a good idea to be taking the form seriously and a couple of meoderate chases. Prior to that he was beaten out of sight by both Binocular and Grandouet. He seems to have two ways of running the best of which we saw in the Fred Winter and at Sandown but neither comes remtely close to Sprinter Sacre's demolition job in the Arkle.
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 8:51 AM GMT
So how good actually was the Arkle??

Cue Card,probably better over further.
Menorah cant jump well enough.
Al Ferof ended his race at a fence.

Yes it was an impressive round of jumping and a faultless display,but imo no better than Sanctuaire at Sandown.

I for one am really looking forward to this race,and will be there to witness what i think will be a great race between these 2,and to be honest from what ive seen with them over fences,i would have them both even.
Report festivalfanatic November 18, 2012 8:54 AM GMT
Put the monster up on here at evens budd, you'll fill your boots.
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 9:02 AM GMT
Laugh

im no bookie mate,and i could well be wrong.
Dont want to lose money finding out.
Report festivalfanatic November 18, 2012 9:05 AM GMT
You'll be able to back Sanctuaire at odds against. If you really think it's a 50:50 chance, he'll be great value for you.
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 9:41 AM GMT
yep,i shall be there prowling round the bookies with me hard earned looking for a nice price.
what price you reckon he will be on the day?
Also be interested to know who else is likely to line up,any ideas anyone??
Report Masterminded November 18, 2012 9:51 AM GMT
Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctuaire over 2 miles. Much better horse but keep believing the hype. This just reminds me of the people who took on Sea The Stars and Frankel every race.
Report festivalfanatic November 18, 2012 10:02 AM GMT
It would be nice to have the top established 2 milers in but if Finians & Sizing are being aimed at the King George, there is no chance of them lining up in this and suspect that the other runners will be makeweights running for the place money...probably pay down to 6th. The softer the ground, the poorer the price for Sanctuaire and if it comes up heavy, Hendo might duck it again. I'm no bookie either but whatever the ground, can't see him being bigger than 2/1 and that assumes they go very short on the monster.
Report strontium November 18, 2012 10:05 AM GMT
I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so far on the racecourse. It puts him 6+ ahead of the Champion Chaser for example.(Grands Crus yesterday was an example of what can happen if you rely too much on collateral form).
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 10:07 AM GMT
Hype??
Sanctuaire has jumped round Sandown and won easily by a long way,twice.
No hype for me,just impressed with his course and distance form and the way he jumps those fences.

Look,both these horses have been impressive,and jump really well.
They are both novices coming into their senior years,are both open to any sort of improvement and have never met.
You,me and everyone else do not know how they will perform first time up this season,and to me its folly to say for sure which one will win.
One thing i am sure about though,is that whoever does win will be a top 2 miler,and to be honest i think they will both prove to be top notch as the season unfolds.
Report JOCI Club November 18, 2012 10:23 AM GMT
strontium 18 Nov 12 10:05 
I see Timeform now rate Sprinter 180p and the highest rated chaser in training. That seems reasonable in terms of what I expect him to achieve, but too high (perhaps much too high) based on what he has actually achieved so far on the racecourse. It puts him 6+ ahead of the Champion Chaser for example.(Grands Crus yesterday was an example of what can happen if you rely too much on collateral form).


Surely the ground conditions yesterday would have largely knocked the (collateral) form book out of the window?
Report wellchief November 18, 2012 10:29 AM GMT
To be honest, I'm getting a bit bored of this converstation now.  There are clearly two sets of people, those in the Sprinter camp and those in the Sanctuaire, and until the race is over we won't know.

Rondetto, just an opinion.  I wouldn't call Sprinters Arkle win as "barely out of a canter", he was made to work hard up the hill to keep the distance to Cue Card.  You make it sound like it was a Master Minded QMCC win in 2008, when the others were barely jumping the last fence when he crossed the line.  FWIW I've backed Sprinter at 14/1 for this year's QMCC and posted on here last year that 28/1 was available with B365.

I've said before I don't give a cr@p about ratings for Grade 1 horse, if one horse has a "p" after their name, what one person rates a horse compared to another.  Imo Twist Magic was a proper Sandown specialist, who in 2009 beat that seasons QMCC winner 33 lengths.
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 10:49 AM GMT
Im not really in any camp,just a tad annoyed that some totally dismiss one or the other.Mostly Sanctuaire.
To me its a race that either could win,and best approached that way.
Report JOCI Club November 18, 2012 10:55 AM GMT
Should be a cracking renewal, whichever camp you're in.
Report roobuck November 18, 2012 11:39 AM GMT
Clearly Henderson would have preferred to have given SS a run before, presumably to deal with any freshness. Might that be an issue down the back?

Obviously nobody knows for sure the outcome but nothing wrong expressing an opinion beforehand. FWIW I think SS will win and tend to agree with MM in the comparison with Frankel and STS.

Won't be playing in the race, just watching intently
Report strontium November 18, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
Joci - yet Sprinter's new Timeform rating must be based on collateral form with Cue Card (and perhaps Al Ferof?), which makes it all a bit of a guessing game. I just find it odd that after winning a strong but small field Arkle and a few other weak races he's rated within 2 lbs of Azertyioup and Best Mate, 3 of Denman, 4 of Moscow Flyer and 7 of Desert Orchid - all arguably all time great chasers. I have absolutely no doubt he has the potential to earn such a rating, but in horse racing a horse usually earns its rating rather than having a coronation. Timeform seem desparate to give Sprinter a massive rating - and are setting it up.

WellC - just to be clear, I am in the Sprinter camp and expect him to win (as i said right at the beginning of this thread). However, I just believe Sanctuaire is better than many think and it could be a good - even spectacular - race. The horse has done nothing wrong over fences - he was magnificent at Sandown in March and April - and it seems odd (to me) for people to dismiss him so readily. Your point about Twist Magic could be pertinent - Sandown is a rather specialist course.
Report mushroom23 November 18, 2012 6:29 PM GMT
When can we expect a book for this?
Report GoldCupWinner November 18, 2012 7:13 PM GMT
I think Sprinter will end up being better than Moscow Flyer and it pains me to say that as Moscow is my favourite horse.
Report Howdi November 18, 2012 7:45 PM GMT
imo it won't be a race...Sprintewr will beat him how he wants.
Report JOCI Club November 18, 2012 7:50 PM GMT
Moscow Flyer great horse but never one of my favourites as have bad memories of him costing me a big prize in the Ten To Follow by winning the Champion Chase that year when the two nags either side of him fell 2 or 3 out. Sad
Report GoldCupWinner November 18, 2012 8:09 PM GMT
I remember Seebald was one of the fallers. Can't remember the other one. Don't think Seebals would have beat him anyway.
Report Mr Eboue November 18, 2012 8:21 PM GMT
Latalomne.
Report buddeliea November 18, 2012 8:29 PM GMT
Anyone think Sanctuaires performances at Sandown give him an advantage over Sprinters lack of races there??
Personally think that could prove quiet important.
If the race were at Chelt i would fancy SS to win,but Sandown and given Sancts performances there,really think its evens the 2.
I would also like someone to explain to me which piece of form puts SS so far ahead of Sanct as to give Sanct no chance,as some of you say.
Report FOYLESWAR November 18, 2012 8:52 PM GMT
the handicapper has sprinter sacre 3 pound in front of sanctuaire we all know official ratings are not set in stone but the assesors are a a decent guide imo and are not usually to far wide of the mark ,but its a horse race and the unexpected happens often enough , both horses have room for improvement sprinter sacre may have more potential but who can be sure .if the official ratings are to be belived (and at this stage they are the best guide imo) then is the gap in prices for these 2 horses evens sprinter and 8s sanctuaire justified ? all about opinions but ya pays ya money and take your chance !
Report GoldCupWinner November 18, 2012 9:08 PM GMT
Yeah that's right Eboue. I actually backed the Pipe first string in that race and after all these years my punting still hasn't improved!
Report flushgordon1 November 18, 2012 9:09 PM GMT
3lbs is one mistake at a fence
Report flushgordon1 November 18, 2012 9:10 PM GMT
sanctuaire will hammer  sphincter sucker on soft at sandown.
Report Howdi November 18, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
give me evens on ss please Cool
Report FOYLESWAR November 18, 2012 10:09 PM GMT
what for the champion chase ?
Report festivalfanatic November 18, 2012 10:23 PM GMT
I've already politely asked budd about evens for the Tingle Creek howdi but he sort of dodged the issue.....but so would I at evens, you'd have to be feckin stupid!
Report flushgordon1 November 18, 2012 10:37 PM GMT
why double his money at evens ,when you generous people will allow him to treble it by backing sanctuaire?
Report festivalfanatic November 18, 2012 10:40 PM GMT
His words that it an even chance flush, not mine. You seem to think that the monster has no chance in the soft, maybe you'll go bigger.......
Report flushgordon1 November 18, 2012 10:45 PM GMT
maybeDevil
Report buddeliea November 19, 2012 7:48 AM GMT
I never dodged the issue,i merely pointed out im no bookie and i may be wrong,and would not want to lose money finding out.
Anyway as said,i dont need to lay SS,and ive never layed a horse in my life and probably never will,plus i will be getting better than evens on Sanctuaire,i would think.So i can just back him on the day if i want.
Report buddeliea December 2, 2012 8:54 PM GMT
not long now !!
Report FOYLESWAR December 2, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
yep and the following week sir des champs v flemenstar.......not a lot to look forward too!Wink
Report harry callaghan December 2, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
sprinter sacre 4-9 sanctuaire 5-2

with paddy power can't get any money on bookmakers
Report Colonel Sanders December 2, 2012 9:05 PM GMT
Powers are betting 4/9 Sprinter, 11/4 Sanctuaire

My gut is that Sprinter will win but at the prices I'll be having a small bet on Sanctuaire.
Report Colonel Sanders December 2, 2012 9:05 PM GMT
Apologises, 5/2 Sanctuaire
Report Colonel Sanders December 2, 2012 9:07 PM GMT
http://www.paddypower.com/racing/future-racing/tingle-creek
Report buddeliea December 3, 2012 12:58 PM GMT
nice to see Ruby getting in some practice in Ireland yesterday,expecting a simlar ride on Sanctuaire as he did on AL.
Report judorick December 3, 2012 1:13 PM GMT
this race has got everyone that loves jumps racing talking! yummy yummy

great when questions get answered like this isn't it?

anyway, Sprinter is a complete monster for me with everything you want in a 2 mile chaser and he is the best I've seen since Moscow Flyer. Anyway, I expect him to win easily as I have him conservatively 10lbs clear on the bare form and he clearly could have produced bigger numbers as he was never once pushed out. I have it 175 Sprinter vs 165 Sanctuaire so I think he will win 4 lengths plus

we will see how accurate my numbers are on Saturday, can't wait
Report Makybe_Diva December 3, 2012 7:05 PM GMT
Who else is entered in the race. I can't find anything.
Report buddeliea December 3, 2012 7:20 PM GMT
think its been reopened due to lack of numbers,hope it aint a 2 horse race.
Report Far From Trouble December 3, 2012 7:23 PM GMT
No worry of that budd, Kinkeel a regular fixture in these events Laugh
Report Makybe_Diva December 3, 2012 7:25 PM GMT
Thanks, buddeliea.
Report Howdi December 3, 2012 7:26 PM GMT
kinkeel must be sitting in his stables thinking feck me whats the point Sad
Report festivalfanatic December 3, 2012 10:59 PM GMT
Presume prize money down to 6th so we should have 6 runners, even if 4 of them would struggle to win a handicap at Plumpton on a Monday.
Report Makybe_Diva December 4, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
I cannot wait for this race. I'm working Saturday but will try and watch it.
Report shockster December 7, 2012 12:16 PM GMT
Sprinter Sacre to win the Tingle Creek by 6 L or more enhanced from 6/4 to 5/2.  PADDY POWER if anybody is interested.
Report bluebirdfan December 7, 2012 3:25 PM GMT
Hope this low sun doesn't ruin the race tomorrow
Report eric_morris December 8, 2012 6:51 AM GMT
Why has Nicholls entered Doeslessthanme in this race?
Report eric_morris December 8, 2012 7:01 AM GMT
Nicholls has been shouting his mouth off about Sanctuaire in the run up probably hoping to scare the rest off. He knows a 2 horse race can lead to strange results and it is the best chance of a win for him. Also the fact he says Sanctuaire goes straight to the Queen Mum after means he is hoping to go to Cheltenham with the psychological edge after today if there is an unexpected result so Sanctuaire will be fit to run for his life today. You will see the best of Sanctuaire regardless of the shoyte Nichols comes out with afterwards.

Mind games and bshit from Nicholls as usual unfortunately for him I think Sprinter Sacre is the better horse and the most beautiful top class fencer since Best Mate. However this is really a 2 horse race and unexpected things can happen lets hope not and we see a great horse in the making.
Report duffy December 8, 2012 3:13 PM GMT
That's that then!!
Report tweedledumbtweedletwat December 8, 2012 3:17 PM GMT
just perfect
Report Howdi December 8, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
eric I think he is better than Best Mate
Report ReaseHeath December 8, 2012 3:19 PM GMT
similar to Vitaly Klitschko v Graham Norton and just as enjoyable a spectacle.
Report eric_morris December 8, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
Obviously over 2m he is better than Best Mate he also is better than two miler Moscow Flyer. Is he going to be better than Badsworth Boy?
Report Far From Trouble December 8, 2012 3:25 PM GMT
Easy as expected Cool
Report festivalfanatic December 8, 2012 3:42 PM GMT
2013 Champion Chase will be the smallest, least competitive field in living memory. 2's on is a very big price for him to get there and hack round.
Report Howdi December 8, 2012 4:16 PM GMT
m
kinkeel in the forecast
Report bluebirdfan December 8, 2012 7:59 PM GMT
What did Nicholls have to say afterwards?
Report festivalfanatic December 8, 2012 8:03 PM GMT
What did Nicholls have to say afterwards?

Nothing official but maybe.....

'Ruby said we were pissing in the wind.....and he was right'.
Report shockster December 8, 2012 8:34 PM GMT
Time for a new thread. Discussion ended!!!!
Report CVByrne December 9, 2012 12:25 AM GMT
Nicholls said they weren't even close to good enough. Gonna aim at the Celebration Chase again. Sounds like they'll skip chelts.
Report Glossy December 9, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
Grand Annual beckons.
Report Far From Trouble December 9, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
iff a mark in the 160s? or high 150s at worst? Confused
Report Glossy December 9, 2012 12:39 AM GMT
French Opera went off at 162 last year didn't he?
Report Far From Trouble December 9, 2012 12:43 AM GMT
My apologies I mis-interpreted your three words as that he'd win it Plain

Would imagine a place is booked in in the QM given that it's unlikely both FR and SE will turn up
Report Glossy December 9, 2012 1:02 AM GMT
It was a semi-serious comment meant in a disparaging way.

Never mind!
Report Masterminded December 9, 2012 7:45 AM GMT
Masterminded 18 Nov 12 09:51
Like others have said I hope the blind will be laying Sprinter so I can get stuck in for the bet of the season. I will be surprised if he even comes off the bridle in the Tingle Creek. I would back Cue Card to beat Sanctuaire over 2 miles. Much better horse but keep believing the hype. This just reminds me of the people who took on Sea The Stars and Frankel every race.

Shame the layers didn't put their money where their mouth was. I thought Sanctuaire was going to win by ten lengths?
Report bluebirdfan December 9, 2012 1:10 PM GMT
I hope Nicholls does put Sanctuaire in the Champion Chase, he gives Sprinter a lovely lead
Report judorick December 9, 2012 1:14 PM GMT
Laugh
Report shockster December 9, 2012 4:49 PM GMT
What's the shortest SP returned at Cheltenham.  Could be under threat.
Report Far From Trouble December 9, 2012 4:51 PM GMT
As long as Finians and/or Sizing turn up I doubt he'll be shorter than 1/4 ish

If neither show he could be absurdly short
Report Brooksielad December 9, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
what was master minded for his 2nd QM? 1/3?
Report Far From Trouble December 9, 2012 5:15 PM GMT
4/11
Report gart January 9, 2013 5:54 PM GMT
sanctuaire has blistering speed when needed
sprinter is a brilliant horse - more of a stayer.
BJG never let sanctuaire get too far away at
sandown and then sanctuaire folded and didnt run his race.
if the ground came up proper good ground and sprinter sacre didnt
make enough use of himself.... just think what sanctuaire
could do in a short space of time to  sprinter sacre...
sprinter sacre is clearly of the highest class but
he is not going to beat sanctuaire over a short distance.
if the race pans out in sanctuaires favour
he could do him up the run in.
Report festivalfanatic January 9, 2013 7:53 PM GMT
Nurse.....nurse!!!!
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