A wonderful horse in the making, but, as value goes, this must be a cue for layers to fill their boots. I did so myself, but sadly at 10/1. 1. He may go chasing 2. He's never run over 2 miles over obstacles 3. He ran in the longer novice race, reportedly, because his jockey felt he is error prone over hurdles and ideally wanted a steadier pace 4. His Neptune win was against a far from vintage crop, and Cotton Mill could well have put it up to him had he not fallen 2 out 5. He appeared not to handle softish going the only time he was asked to tackle it in the Tolworth
I think we may well see mutliple favourites in the Champion throughout the winter as the lemmings rush in and Simonsig looks a sensible place to begin a layer's book, or add to the profits of those who laid the unfortunate Spirit Son.
Strontium I thought ROR wore down the opposition with a relentless gallop rather than genuinely quickening away from the opposition if you think otherwise Id be happy to hear your thoughts or have I misinterpreted your use of punctuation.
Strontium I thought ROR wore down the opposition with a relentless gallop rather than genuinely quickening away from the opposition if you think otherwise Id be happy to hear your thoughts or have I misinterpreted your use of punctuation.
Chelters - Sorry, I meant I think your suggestion that Simonsig may not have a change of pace is interesting and something I had not considered. The only time it was really tested (at Sandown on bad ground) maybe he didn't.
Chelters - Sorry, I meant I think your suggestion that Simonsig may not have a change of pace is interesting and something I had not considered. The only time it was really tested (at Sandown on bad ground) maybe he didn't.
Tongue in cheek? Certainly not. Harchinative is correct IMO. NJH has said more than once he could run Simonsig on the level. Whlst that may (or may not) have been bravado, just look at his expression when replying to Stuart Machin's assertion after the Neptune that his future lies over 3m and fences. Horror at the thought of going up to 3 and cetagorically (at that stage) dismissed it. As I say, just listen to Barry's comment after the race - he makes Riverside Theatre and (the Champion Chaser ffs!) feel like 4 milers! Again, possibly bravado, but he was mkaing a serious point.
In terms of gears, I think this horse has them to burn. Every race I have seen him in suggests it so far. The fact is nothing has been good enough to see him open up (other than a slogger, up the hill, on soft ground, over a trip which was probably too far on the ground, against a more experienced rival, who actually looked floored 2 out before outstaying him). The horse may flop this year, the horse may not improve, but he is the best novice I have seen in many, many moons. My only concern about the Champion would be the slickness of his hurdling. Fwiw, I think the horse was bred and is built for chasing, so that is probably the best option, but I have no doubt he is serious champion player if they stick to timber.
Tongue in cheek? Certainly not. Harchinative is correct IMO. NJH has said more than once he could run Simonsig on the level. Whlst that may (or may not) have been bravado, just look at his expression when replying to Stuart Machin's assertion after t
Fwiw Rondetto, if they had run Oscar in the right race this yr, as a stayer he would have been presumably ridden closer to the pace (unlike the disasterous -in the event- tactics on HF and Binocular) and I think he would have been hard to knock out of the 2.
Fwiw Rondetto, if they had run Oscar in the right race this yr, as a stayer he would have been presumably ridden closer to the pace (unlike the disasterous -in the event- tactics on HF and Binocular) and I think he would have been hard to knock out o
Funny as I didnt ever consider ROR did quicken away,thats why this forum is invaluable as a sounding board especially as race reading is pretty subjective at the best of times, posters like your self Strontium and others can put up ideas/theories that I had not thought of..............more power to this excellent forum outwith this part of the forum its a mixed buch of expertise,liars and fruitcakes.
Funny as I didnt ever consider ROR did quicken away,thats why this forum is invaluable as a sounding board especially as race reading is pretty subjective at the best of times, posters like your self Strontium and others can put up ideas/theories tha
Wee for what it's worth, I have heard that Simonsig is going to stay hurdling... 2 reasons.
1. A friend of the owner had a good bet on him for the champion hurdle
2. His ptp jockey christy Cullen said he can't jump fences and hurdling was always the plan...
I took a bit of the 15/2 but he could well go chasing... Just stating what I have heard... Only time will tell
Wee for what it's worth, I have heard that Simonsig is going to stay hurdling... 2 reasons.1. A friend of the owner had a good bet on him for the champion hurdle2. His ptp jockey christy Cullen said he can't jump fences and hurdling was always the pl
Funnily enough, the concern over Simonsig's jumping is also the concern regarding Grandouet. Looks awkward and guessy at many of his hurdles, particularly when the pace quickens. We've seen him fall at Aintree and Wincanton and his win in the Bula certainly didnt suggest he'd discovered fluency. But, to revert to the original topic, many good points made here but I think the main thing that comes out is how many people are basing their thoughts on what NJH and the jockey have said about him, rather than what they have actually seen.Yet, before Spirit Son became hors de combat, it was him and Grandouet that led the Henderson team in the betting, with Simonsig unconsidered for the race.And relying too much on what this particular trainer has said in recent seasons has been a costly game to play.......
Funnily enough, the concern over Simonsig's jumping is also the concern regarding Grandouet. Looks awkward and guessy at many of his hurdles, particularly when the pace quickens. We've seen him fall at Aintree and Wincanton and his win in the Bula ce
Racing is all about opinions and while N6 may disagree about Nicky Henderson's tongue in cheek comment lets look back to last season. Barry Geharty, no matter what the media might have you believe, not for one minute had any doubt that Simonsig should run in the Neptune. He was the one who convinced the owner and Nicky to run him there. Nicky said himself that his reasoning was it would help the horse do it in his own time.
You don't get the opportunity to do it in your own time in a Champion Hurdle and the step between the two is like trying to jump the Grand Canyon. Hardy Eustace was a tough cookie who made the switch back but there we no Hurricane Fly's in that era which is considered by many as one of the poorest in Champion Hurdle history. At the other end of the scale Istabraq also made the transition but he was perhaps one of the best hurdlers ever seen on a race track
I have to stick by my guns and say it depends on what Grandouet does. He has proven Champion Hurdle form. He absolutely trounced the CH runner Overturn albeit getting 4lbs but the result was never in a moments doubt.
I can't see avoiding Sprinter Sacre in the near future being an issue as nothing in the yard will take president over him. He'll win the QMCC this season but as sure as God made little green apples he''l be stepped up in trip the following season. If Nicky had said he wanted to go King George this year he could have as the owners already said after the Arkle a step up in trip was not out of the question.
Unfortunately Grandouet was injured and missed the Champion Hurdle and like all thing out of sight out of mind. Simonsig on the other hand won the Neptune like a superstar but so he should have. His main danger fell and the horse who finished 2nd fame to claim was he had won a poor maiden at Nass. In his nest run in a Novice Champion hurdle he went of favourite and was beaten 10 lengths further than Simonsig had beat him. Basically the form isn't worth a jot although Simonsig himself is a very good horse. His for at Aintree isn't much better though. He went of at 4/9 and beat Super Duty who's fair but was somewhat flattered when he beat Keys who apparently was injured and sent back to Roger Charlton.
The point is it's all visual with Simonsig very much like it was before the World Hurdle with Grand Crus. More often than not when these horses step out against the best they get found out. The one good horse he did take on was Fingal Bay and he was beaten but to be fair Nicky was adamant that he wasn't right and Fingle Bay would never beat him again. It's a pity he went wrong himself or we would know more.
The hard fact is people are looking through rose coloured glasses at Simonsig as he has done nothing to say he's a Champion Hurdle horse. He certainly looks the part but until he beats a top notcher over 2 miles it's a dodgy path to follow IMO.
First of you don't know if he'll even go that route and secondly you have no idea if he's even good enough. I'll rather stick with Grandouet who has the form the class and has one target and that's he Champion Hurdle.
Racing is all about opinions and while N6 may disagree about Nicky Henderson's tongue in cheek comment lets look back to last season. Barry Geharty, no matter what the media might have you believe, not for one minute had any doubt that Simonsig shoul
Good debate this, but 2 quick points. Grandouet was brought down at Aintree, he did not fall, and for me his jumping is fine. He was half lengthed at Wincanton because he was so fresh. And Simonsig was not beaten in the Tolworth, but in the Winter Novice, over 2.4, on undesirably soft ground by a more experienced, slogging mud lark who outstayed him and later won the Challow - if the race was stopped at 2 out, Simonsig would have been 1-20 in running, so much was his superiority at that point. Its also possibie (as alluded to) that Simonsig was not right after Sandown. After the race the trainer said "It was a great run. Barry (Geraghty) said that the rain that got into the ground probably didn't help him. He will probably have one more run somewhere then a break before we think about Cheltenham." As it transpired, they put him away immediately after the race for 75 days suggesting possibly he was not 100% after it.
Good debate this, but 2 quick points. Grandouet was brought down at Aintree, he did not fall, and for me his jumping is fine. He was half lengthed at Wincanton because he was so fresh. And Simonsig was not beaten in the Tolworth, but in the Winter No
going to throw a spanner in the works here and look at simonsigs defeat in a different way this may spark a bit of controversy, and this is just a theory and may be well wide of the mark but could it not be that simonsig after travelling so well and looking full of running 2 out ( barry gerahty seemed full of confidence that simonsig was going to cruise past fingal bay in the sandown race) was simply "eyeballed " by a horse who had the ability to go with him and quicken with him, he looks impressive on the bridal but can he do it in a battle ? ,it was a pity that cotton mill ran out when he did as it may have given us the chance to see if simonsig can battle it out in a ding dong finish . not saying he cant battle it out, but if they do go down the champion hurdle route we may hopefully get the opportunity to see what he is made of in one of the trials
going to throw a spanner in the works here and look at simonsigs defeat in a different way this may spark a bit of controversy, and this is just a theory and may be well wide of the mark but could it not be that simonsig after travelling so well a
I expect them to test the water with Simonsig in 1 of the Champion Hurdle trials ( maybe what was the Greatwood ) and take it from there. If he wins well stay hurdling and if he gets found out send him over fences.
I expect them to test the water with Simonsig in 1 of the Champion Hurdle trials ( maybe what was the Greatwood ) and take it from there.If he wins well stay hurdling and if he gets found out send him over fences.
7/1 is too short IMO with all the doubts surrounding and 6 months to go. However, if the Champion Hurdle was to be run tomorrow with all serious horses standing their ground. He would be my choice. Looks very special to me, and possibly the form in the book doesn't match up, but there's a lot of potential to work with.
7/1 is too short IMO with all the doubts surrounding and 6 months to go. However, if the Champion Hurdle was to be run tomorrow with all serious horses standing their ground. He would be my choice. Looks very special to me, and possibly the form i
Can I ask you all a couple of questions related to this slightly differently:
1. What should be favourite for the Champion Hurdle at this stage and what price should it be? 2. If applicable, what price would you make Simonsig at this stage?
Can I ask you all a couple of questions related to this slightly differently:1. What should be favourite for the Champion Hurdle at this stage and what price should it be?2. If applicable, what price would you make Simonsig at this stage?
On all known form Strontium, I think it should be ROR. Not sure about a price for Simonsig, but given the uncertainty about him running, i would say current price is skinny.
On all known form Strontium, I think it should be ROR. Not sure about a price for Simonsig, but given the uncertainty about him running, i would say current price is skinny.
rock on ruby seems to have been slightly overlooked he won the champ hurdle fair and square and his price seems a bit bigger than it should be to me ,its a bit of a pig of a race to contemplate having a bet in at this stage ,so many ifs buts or maybes but if i had to have a bet now it would be rock on ruby at the prices .
rock on ruby seems to have been slightly overlooked he won the champ hurdle fair and square and his price seems a bit bigger than it should be to me ,its a bit of a pig of a race to contemplate having a bet in at this stage ,so many ifs buts or may
Just to reiterate, I think he is a fantastic horse, and he could have the ability to win at least one Champion Hurdle, and I'm pretty certain he would have won the Supreme Novices if he'd ran in it.
However, I do have to say that he is poor value at 7/1. As I've said above, Peddlers did the same double and won a Fighting Fifth, and could still be backed at a similar price to Simonsig, who has yet to run against the big boys, and question marks over his campaign this year.
I've also said on other threads that you have to look at Cotton Mill, as based on their Neptune run, he was bang in there when he ran out, and then just didn't stay at Aintree when travelling beautifully, and is a huge price for the Champion. I fully admit Simonsig probably had Cotton Mill's measure, but we don't know what type of improvement they've got this year.
We won't know how good any of them will be until they run in a proper Champion Hurlde trial. What looks like a poor novice race at the time might work out fantastic, and vice versa; we won't know until next year.
In terms of who I think should still be favourite, I would still have to say Hurricane Fly. He has only lost 1 race in 9, and is an out and out 2 mile hurdler, with class in abundance. I know many will disagree, but I still have complete faith in him if he can stay fit.
I would have Simonsig around the 12/1 mark for the Champion now. That's what price Peddlers was before his Fighting Fifth win - I think Simonsig probably has a better engine than Peddlers, but Peddlers is/was a better jumper of a hurdle imo (even in the Neptune, Simonsig was less than fluent at at least 2 hurdles)
Just to reiterate, I think he is a fantastic horse, and he could have the ability to win at least one Champion Hurdle, and I'm pretty certain he would have won the Supreme Novices if he'd ran in it.However, I do have to say that he is poor value at 7
Im not sure what should be fav but as for Simonsigs price considering we dont yet no 1. Is he defo staying hurdling 2. How will he fare now has to go in with big boys 3. Will his hurdling improve as it clearly needs to
Based on these facts which are off top of my head 7/1 seems very short
Im not sure what should be fav but as for Simonsigs price considering we dont yet no1. Is he defo staying hurdling2. How will he fare now has to go in with big boys3. Will his hurdling improve as it clearly needs toBased on these facts which are off
I think, Strontium, it should be 10/1 the field, with, as others have said, Rock on Ruby heading the market. A gritty winner, by a comfortable margin, of this year's event and you'd have to expect improvement to come. I wouldnt be backing him myself, as I hope that something more special will emerge, but he's the one with least questions to answer at present. Simonsig, I reckon should be around 14/1. Two I've backed at huge odds are Montbazon and Countrywide Flame. The former got it all wrong with his jumping in the Supreme, but finished close up, and his trainer has always said he'd be much better with another summer behind him. As for Countrywide Flame, he was hampered at the top of the hill in the Triumph, but stormed home and has just shown improved form on the flat. An average of 75/1 garnered thus far is, in my view, outstandingly attractive. Trained by Henderson, he'd be.............. The Triumph is being ignored at present in this market, but has proved a significant race in recent times and I suspect Grumeti may have a say this year as well.
I think, Strontium, it should be 10/1 the field, with, as others have said, Rock on Ruby heading the market. A gritty winner, by a comfortable margin, of this year's event and you'd have to expect improvement to come. I wouldnt be backing him myself,
Rock on Ruby should be favourite and 10/1 the field sounds about right As for Simonsig I'm guessing the main reason they've thought again about going chasing this season is Spirit Sons injury? If Nicky is finally going to break Nicholls' stranglehold on the Trainers championship he'll need a strong contender in every championship race at Cheltenham Do we know if Cotton Mill is heading down the Champion Hurdle route this year???
Rock on Ruby should be favourite and 10/1 the field sounds about rightAs for Simonsig I'm guessing the main reason they've thought again about going chasing this season is Spirit Sons injury? If Nicky is finally going to break Nicholls' stranglehold
I think I'd also go for RoR as favourite at around 8/1. He won fair and square last time with no obvious sob stories behind. He's only had 8 hurdle starts, he improved 25 lbs last season and he could well improve a bit more.
Grandouet has form to put him up there but he also has the niggling injury doubt. I notice PFN is being very, very bullish about Zarkander which is interesting.
As for Simonsig, I would make him favourite for whatever his target is but because I don't know what connections are thinking I can't price it up. That's a cop out, but there you go. Not really having a clue was one reason I asked the question myself! He's from a yard where the Betfair market is often a good guide and all the recent money has been for the Champion while you can't give him away for the Arkle, but nevertheless.... I certainly respect those who think 7/1 is on the skinny side.
Thanks for the answers everyone, I think this is a particularly interesting discussion.
I was hoping you wouldn't ask I think I'd also go for RoR as favourite at around 8/1. He won fair and square last time with no obvious sob stories behind. He's only had 8 hurdle starts, he improved 25 lbs last season and he could well improve a bit m
Thanks Strontium. The not knowing is what makes this time of the yr so enjoyable and your answer was not a cop out, merely logical I think
If he was 7s and a confirmed runner I would be backing him (even at this early stage) no question, not withstanding the many genuine concerns others have expressed (hurdling, trip, mettle in battle etc).
Thanks Strontium. The not knowing is what makes this time of the yr so enjoyable and your answer was not a cop out, merely logical I think If he was 7s and a confirmed runner I would be backing him (even at this early stage) no question, not withsta
When considering who trains him I'd have to say Hurricane Fly should be fav. He's done it all before and Willie was a very worried man in the parade ring before his first race last season So much so he drifted like a barge. All was not well with Hurricane Fly last season IMO even when he hacked up first time out.
The fact that Willie can bring them back and have them spot on for the big day edges it for me.
I can't see Barry Geharty deserting Grandouet for Simonsig. If he did you can bet AP will step in with JP's blesssing
He was adamant that the horse ran in the Neptune last year and you can bet he wants him to run in the Arkle this year.
I'd have Grandouet 9/2 a half point behind Hurricane Fly 4/1 and Simonsig around 12/1 as he wont run but 6/1 with a run.
Rock on Ruby I'd make 7/1 . He wont win but I wouldn't offer any more than said because he will run well and could easily be placed.
Zarkander I'd go 100/1 on a win market he's out of his league and 20/1 if ew betting was allowed.
Cinders and Ashes is better than he is given credit for 18/1 is huge. Like his stable companion before him he'll be right in the firing line at the death. Great ew bet should be no more than 8/1.
Darlan isn't anywhere near good enough 25/1
Grumeti would think he'd gone into orbit if he ran in it 50/1
btw I woud l lay these prices but if anyone asks I'm out
When considering who trains him I'd have to say Hurricane Fly should be fav. He's done it all before and Willie was a very worried man in the parade ring before his first race last season So much so he drifted like a barge. All was not well with Hurr
There might be a queue. Nicholls has been extremely positive about him so far after RoR was his nap of the Festival last time. It surprises me - I don't see Zarkander as a natural 2 m hurdler - but Nicholls knows rather more about this than I do.
There might be a queue. Nicholls has been extremely positive about him so far after RoR was his nap of the Festival last time. It surprises me - I don't see Zarkander as a natural 2 m hurdler - but Nicholls knows rather more about this than I do.
Well its a bad price simply cos his main target is the Arkle.
Even if his intended target was the CH hes still too short,as he has still to prove he has sufficient speed and class to win a 2m championship race,and their are others that imo are more likely to win the CH.
Personally think any bookies that do not have Rock on Ruby as favourite are bonkers!! Unless anyone on here can give me a good reason why.
Well its a bad price simply cos his main target is the Arkle.Even if his intended target was the CH hes still too short,as he has still to prove he has sufficient speed and class to win a 2m championship race,and their are others that imo are more li
I think on form lines anyone who likes Grandouet & Darlan's claims must also consider a horse that has beaten both. Although we don't know what would have happened in the Betfair Hurdle had Darlan stayed up I'm fairly sure given the problems in the Nicholls yard that Zarkander wasn't at his best which makes the win all the more impressive.
He beat Grandouet twice as a Juvenile, again one of those could perhaps be chalked off due to the fall, and Nicholls has always rated him highly. At the prices he would be my bet at the moment of those at the front of the market
I think on form lines anyone who likes Grandouet & Darlan's claims must also consider a horse that has beaten both. Although we don't know what would have happened in the Betfair Hurdle had Darlan stayed up I'm fairly sure given the problems in the N
Zarkandar could improve 14 to 20lb easily this term. He had an interrupted preparation, was coughing after Newbury and was only a five year old in a CH which we know has proved to be a major negative over many years
He was also the strongest finisher in a race where it paid to be prominent, so he has to be considered a big player. The other two for me are Grandouet and Simonsig.
Zarkandar could improve 14 to 20lb easily this term. He had an interrupted preparation, was coughing after Newbury and was only a five year old in a CH which we know has proved to be a major negative over many yearsHe was also the strongest finisher
I think he's a real grinder and that maybe gives the impression he'll be better over further. It's obvious that Nicholls rates him as better than the current Champ, he was much sweeter on Zarkander all season despite his issues (and ROR being trained at the Satellite yard).
In a year when things are pretty tight at the head of the market with no obvious superstar a real battler like this one could prove best in the finish
I think he's a real grinder and that maybe gives the impression he'll be better over further. It's obvious that Nicholls rates him as better than the current Champ, he was much sweeter on Zarkander all season despite his issues (and ROR being trained
Dont take too much notice of Nicholls comments imo
Rock on Ruby was good winner,always up there and quickened at the end,and will be hard to beat again imo.Hes proved he stays further and it will take some horse to outbattle him up that hill. Yes Zarkander will improve,or should do from 5-6,and i could be wrong of course about him being a stayer,but if i am i still cannot see him beating ROR.
Dont take too much notice of Nicholls comments imoRock on Ruby was good winner,always up there and quickened at the end,and will be hard to beat again imo.Hes proved he stays further and it will take some horse to outbattle him up that hill.Yes Zarka
Nicholls was very positive about RoR before the Festival - he had him as his charity bet of the meeting at the Sandown preview evening. I'd therefore judge his bullishness about Zarkander to be worth noting.
Nicholls was very positive about RoR before the Festival - he had him as his charity bet of the meeting at the Sandown preview evening. I'd therefore judge his bullishness about Zarkander to be worth noting.
I think Zarkander looks like furthert will help but I agree that he wil probably be campaigned at 2 this yr. I also agree completely with Judo. That was a very decent run, given the issues Judo raises, for a 5yr old. Further in time certainly. I happen to think Simonsig would destroy him for speed over 2. Grandouet could be interesting in this company and still think (though probably stupidly) that Binocular and Hurricane, with better rides, may have one last piece to say. ROR i think should be favourite on all known form at this stage but IMO only an average champion hurdler.
I think Zarkander looks like furthert will help but I agree that he wil probably be campaigned at 2 this yr. I also agree completely with Judo. That was a very decent run, given the issues Judo raises, for a 5yr old. Further in time certainly. I happ
I certainly do not think the Champion Hurdle form is anything to write home about. Two of the expected principals were held up way out the back (Hurricane Fly and Bino) and McCoy seemed determined to ride his to beat HF rather than win the race. The prominent racers never seemed to really be galloping (Overturn and ROR were restrained in front imo) and it was extremely difficult to come from off the pace. I can certainly see the result being reversed quite easily or a new contender coming into it. Just think the likelihood of the race being run to suit the front runners again is not high and I am confident that neither of the first two home in 2012 will be winning in 2013
This division is one of the hardest not least because we don't know which runners are going to turn up
I certainly do not think the Champion Hurdle form is anything to write home about. Two of the expected principals were held up way out the back (Hurricane Fly and Bino) and McCoy seemed determined to ride his to beat HF rather than win the race. The
Simonsig has now tightened up again in the Arkle market, suggesting that Henderson's comments about decisions being made after he schools are probably accurate, rather than the yard leaning heavily one way or the other at this point. Though, presumably, to even bother schooling him over fences would imply that this is the preferred option?
Simonsig has now tightened up again in the Arkle market, suggesting that Henderson's comments about decisions being made after he schools are probably accurate, rather than the yard leaning heavily one way or the other at this point. Though, presumab
Poor giggsy and his "Ankle Betting", but then again he did have the winner at 10's!
Howdi, last time someone spelt Arkle wrong on here got all kinds of abuse http://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/28869881/?liveView=0Poor giggsy and his "Ankle Betting", but then again he did have the winner at 10's!
Simosig now drifting out again in this market, with 12.5 currently available. At the very least, this would suggest that he won't for sure be staying over hurdles, and that schooling over fences is either taking place or scheduled to do so.
Simosig now drifting out again in this market, with 12.5 currently available. At the very least, this would suggest that he won't for sure be staying over hurdles, and that schooling over fences is either taking place or scheduled to do so.
Agreed he must have been schooled by now; maybe they just genuinly can't decide which way to go or Hendo wants to take one route and the owner wants to go the other
Agreed he must have been schooled by now; maybe they just genuinly can't decide which way to go or Hendo wants to take one route and the owner wants to go the other
He's been up and down on here like a tarts drawers. Interesting, he's changed very little on the books. Best price 4/1 for the Arkle and they are also the shortest for the CH at 6/1. I suspect you are right bbf but not a done deal yet.
He's been up and down on here like a tarts drawers. Interesting, he's changed very little on the books. Best price 4/1 for the Arkle and they are also the shortest for the CH at 6/1. I suspect you are right bbf but not a done deal yet.
True, Strontium, and the cases of both Beech Road and Morley Street show that horses have come back from abortive chasing campaigns to win the Champion Hurdle. However, you can't give Sominsig away looking today's Champion market here, suggesting either he's had a setback or they've definitely decided to start out over fences.
True, Strontium, and the cases of both Beech Road and Morley Street show that horses have come back from abortive chasing campaigns to win the Champion Hurdle. However, you can't give Sominsig away looking today's Champion market here, suggesting eit
i knew he was going to go over fences and if he takes to them in a race then he must be a good thing for the ARKLE. i'm on him at 6/1 on here as all the will he wont he "pundits" had their opinion! i'll be thanking all yas in March!! lol.
i knew he was going to go over fences and if he takes to them in a race then he must be a good thing for the ARKLE. i'm on him at 6/1 on here as all the will he wont he "pundits" had their opinion! i'll be thanking all yas in March!! lol.
Those who took the advice at the top of this thread now have very pleasant options, as he drifts ever out. Personally, I think I'll hang on to my substantial lays at 10/1; as long as his first race is over hurdles, its unlikely he'd come back into the mareket at less than that price, should they need to abort his chasing career.
Those who took the advice at the top of this thread now have very pleasant options, as he drifts ever out. Personally, I think I'll hang on to my substantial lays at 10/1; as long as his first race is over hurdles, its unlikely he'd come back into th
said to jump well at home and will make his debut in the next few weeks. that will tell u all u need to know. i say he hacks up and is best price 5/2 for arkle and drifts like a barge in the champion hurdle.
said to jump well at home and will make his debut in the next few weeks. that will tell u all u need to know. i say he hacks up and is best price 5/2 for arkle and drifts like a barge in the champion hurdle.
I am quite sure his first race will be over hurdles.........doesnt mean he wont jump a fence or go for the Arkle but reckon first time out will be over hurdles.
I am quite sure his first race will be over hurdles.........doesnt mean he wont jump a fence or go for the Arkle but reckon first time out will be over hurdles.
Apologies. I didnt mean to infer any inside knowledge. Not the case. The 7Barrows Team have made it clear they are not yet happy with his fencing and they will want to get a run in to him and thus with such a high profile horse they will take him hurdling in public and keep schooling at home until they are clear he is ready. That may be 2012. It may be 2013. Just my view. No inside knowledge.
Apologies. I didnt mean to infer any inside knowledge. Not the case. The 7Barrows Team have made it clear they are not yet happy with his fencing and they will want to get a run in to him and thus with such a high profile horse they will take him hur
Where have the 7 Barrows team made it clear they are not happy with his schooling over fences? I'm not suggesting to the contrary but I've heard nothing and am unaware of any public utterances on the matter.
HaylingWhere have the 7 Barrows team made it clear they are not happy with his schooling over fences? I'm not suggesting to the contrary but I've heard nothing and am unaware of any public utterances on the matter.
If he's very novicey in his first one or too runs over fences they may switch back too hurdles pretty quickly ,especially if Henderson's 2m hurdlers aren't showing much.
If he's very novicey in his first one or too runs over fences they may switch back too hurdles pretty quickly ,especially ifHenderson's 2m hurdlers aren't showing much.
Poor call from Seven Barrows imv - this horse would have taken the 2013 Champion Hurdle - a smooth travelling machine with a turn of foot.
Still might - but it was clear last season he ticks all the right boxes for full steam ahead to Champion.
Poor call from Seven Barrows imv - this horse would have taken the 2013 Champion Hurdle - a smooth travelling machine with a turn of foot.Still might - but it was clear last season he ticks all the right boxes for full steam ahead to Champion.
Suspect there are a combination of factors at play here.
Yard has Darlan and Grandouet for the CH.
Simonsig was purchased to be a steeplechaser, not a hurdler.
Apart from the politics in the yard, you need to look at the owner. I don't believe Ronnie Bartlett has ever bought a horse with the specific aim for it to be a top hurdler. Don't assume that in his eyes, the Champion Hurdle is a bigger prize than the Arkle Trophy.
Suspect there are a combination of factors at play here.Yard has Darlan and Grandouet for the CH.Simonsig was purchased to be a steeplechaser, not a hurdler.Apart from the politics in the yard, you need to look at the owner. I don't believe Ronnie Ba
Fair points festers - but this horse is a much superior hurdler to Darlan and Grandouet imv.
It's nothing to do with me - I don't pay the bills.
Just my view.
Fair points festers - but this horse is a much superior hurdler to Darlan and Grandouet imv.It's nothing to do with me - I don't pay the bills.Just my view.
Can't see Simonsig at a tight gaff like Stratford. Ascot, Newbury or kempton the most likely to me though he may follow the monster route, which would mean Doncaster. All 4 capable of producing decent winter ground. Don't think he'll run in a bog, that's for sure.
You're rght about Cheltenham Judo.Can't see Simonsig at a tight gaff like Stratford. Ascot, Newbury or kempton the most likely to me though he may follow the monster route, which would mean Doncaster. All 4 capable of producing decent winter ground.
This year's Arkle not really doing anything for me at the moment.
Along with the Supreme and the Champion Hurdle, its my fav race of the festival; but so far its not really getting me excited. This time last year we had the unknowns of Sprinter, Peddlers, Al Ferof, Menorah and Cue Card - all top notch hurdlers.
This years list so far is nothing like that level of quality. A lot can change from now until March though, so not quite writing the race off yet though
This year's Arkle not really doing anything for me at the moment.Along with the Supreme and the Champion Hurdle, its my fav race of the festival; but so far its not really getting me excited. This time last year we had the unknowns of Sprinter, Pedd
cant wait 2 c him over a fence. i remember a flying grey called morceli who was a great jumper of a fence. would love to c him really take to the job. if he does then its game over come the arkle.
cant wait 2 c him over a fence. i remember a flying grey called morceli who was a great jumper of a fence. would love to c him really take to the job. if he does then its game over come the arkle.
There doesn't appear to be a suitable race for him at the Henessey meeting unless he's going to debut in the 2 1/2 m Grade 2. The only shorter novice chase is a handicap for which he (presumably) won't be eligible.
There doesn't appear to be a suitable race for him at the Henessey meeting unless he's going to debut in the 2 1/2 m Grade 2. The only shorter novice chase is a handicap for which he (presumably) won't be eligible.