Cheltenham Festival
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07 Sep 12
18:10
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Date Joined:
15 Sep 03
Knee deep already 
One of the finest looking beasts ive ever seen, he is majestic ! His novice hurdle campaign was geared towards peaking in March and he didn't disappoint, storming up the hill to win the neptune (albeit OW looking v unlucky), that 21f trip the longest he'd tackled that season.
MM had 4 runs into him over 20f before the Fort Leney at Christmas when he was allowed to go 3miles for the first time under rules. I think he stumbled on the bend going out on the final circuit that day but finished well to grab a well beaten 2nd to Last Instalment. Like the previous year, he had an 11 week break before March(was treated for back issues) and again ran very well in 2nd behind Bobs Worth whose stable were on fire. I thought he ran quite free and did well to finish 2nd there over 25f. Its a mystery why he ran over 16f at Punchy in a bog and not surprisingly was a well beaten 3rd.
After only 7 chases it's fair to assume the best is yet to come and i hope he'l be the one im roaring home next March to give Ireland its first Gold Cup since War of attrition in 2006.
A fantastic season lies ahead with any number of feasible protagonists to the crown, let's hope they all stay in one piece and recognise their potential.
One of the finest looking beasts ive ever seen, he is majestic ! His novice hurdle campaign was geared towards peaking in March and he didn't disappoint, storming up the hill to win the neptune (albeit OW looking v unlucky), that 21f trip the longest he'd tackled that season.
MM had 4 runs into him over 20f before the Fort Leney at Christmas when he was allowed to go 3miles for the first time under rules. I think he stumbled on the bend going out on the final circuit that day but finished well to grab a well beaten 2nd to Last Instalment. Like the previous year, he had an 11 week break before March(was treated for back issues) and again ran very well in 2nd behind Bobs Worth whose stable were on fire. I thought he ran quite free and did well to finish 2nd there over 25f. Its a mystery why he ran over 16f at Punchy in a bog and not surprisingly was a well beaten 3rd.
After only 7 chases it's fair to assume the best is yet to come and i hope he'l be the one im roaring home next March to give Ireland its first Gold Cup since War of attrition in 2006.
A fantastic season lies ahead with any number of feasible protagonists to the crown, let's hope they all stay in one piece and recognise their potential.
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There's another thread where this chap has been discussed quite a lot. Not in the top 3 Irish staying novices for me and not even in the top 2 for his owners. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's a Ryanair horse. However, it will be fascinating to see how they all progress - the irish seem to have the whip hand when it comes to the 3 m second season chasers (and about time).
I thought he deserved a thread all for himself ! The RSA form is very strong 4 me, BW and FL pulled 11 lenghts clear of the 3rd that day after quite a slow first circuit, suggesting stamina is his forte. I'd be surprised if the Ryanair is on the radar come March.
"He jumped well, gave it everything and was beaten by a better horse on the day. He's a genuine grade 1 horse and if all goes well, he should be back here again next year for the next step,the Gold Cup" Mouse Morris
"He jumped well, gave it everything and was beaten by a better horse on the day. He's a genuine grade 1 horse and if all goes well, he should be back here again next year for the next step,the Gold Cup" Mouse Morris
Liam, for me I don't see why he'd reverse with Bobs Worth in the Gold Cup and I don't think BW is all that good. People have argued that FL didn't settle in the RSA which is fair enough, and I thought (in retrospect) the gap before his RSA run did him more harm than good. However, I didn't think FL really saw out the 3 m trip, and he looked one paced, so I don't see why an extra 2 f will suit him (and not as much as it will suit BW).
Probably more important, Last Instalment, Sir des Champs and Flemenstar all look better, classier horses. I know there are doubts about all 3 (fitness and stamina), but if they are fit and do stay I'd expect each of them to beat FL. LI has already stuffed FL on good ground over 3 m. Flem and SDC look (on visual impression and some degree of form) to have the potential to be superb.
Probably more important, Last Instalment, Sir des Champs and Flemenstar all look better, classier horses. I know there are doubts about all 3 (fitness and stamina), but if they are fit and do stay I'd expect each of them to beat FL. LI has already stuffed FL on good ground over 3 m. Flem and SDC look (on visual impression and some degree of form) to have the potential to be superb.
Strontium, I don't believe the Fort Leney form to be true, i could have given them a race over the first mile and a half, LI nicked it from the front that day aided by FL stumbling into Allez Gardes hind legs(due to the funerial gallop) and missing 2 out when the pace notably quickened. Granted a proper test around Cheltenham (26.5f) LI wouldn't live with FL imo. Flemenstar is without very promising although unproven in public over 20f, although there is plenty of hope in his breeding. I hope he makes it the Gold Cup to ensure a good gallop at the very least! SDC is a very smart horse 4 me, deeply impressive in the Jewson and equally so at Punchy over 25f for the first time ( a very slow time the only hole i can find).
I wonder what Davys thoughts are ....
I wonder what Davys thoughts are ....
Finally someone else who agrees with me instead of all this 'going for the Ryanair' talk
His win in the Neptune was still a sight to behold. His stride is so long he just devoured the hill, beating the Champion Hurdler Rock on Roby.
I've got an open mind about this horse. Physically he looks a 3m chaser through and through, but there was something not right with last season. I dont think Mouse Morris ever had him in the condition and form where he wanted him. I'd be looking to see him in his first race this season and hope he jumps better and just looks in better form with himself as I think he could be better than what we have seen. His hurdles form is certainly very strong.
I've got an open mind about this horse. Physically he looks a 3m chaser through and through, but there was something not right with last season. I dont think Mouse Morris ever had him in the condition and form where he wanted him. I'd be looking to see him in his first race this season and hope he jumps better and just looks in better form with himself as I think he could be better than what we have seen. His hurdles form is certainly very strong.
He loooked awesome in the pre parade before the RSA sint, the best looking beast there all week !No idea why he turned up at Punchy over 2 in a bog after though 
looks a cheltenham horse to me. If Gold Cup was at kempton wouldn't have him in the first eight but at cheltenham I wouldnt be laying fancy prices.
He definitely does look like a Cheltenham horse to me but i wouldn't be touching him until he has proved that the RSA hasn't left a mark. The race has a long history of ruining top class novice chasers with only Denman and Looks Like Trouble managing to do the double in recent memory. At this stage i would have Sir Des Champs and Last Installment before First Lieutenant as both look more natural chasers.
agree with farmer but FL looks a bruiser to me the more you throw at hiom the hardier he is.
I should add that Long Run also won the Gold Cup after running in the RSA but he didn't have a hard race once his chance had gone.
Howdi, I disagree. He's lost 5 of his 7 chases. He never looked like going by BobsWorth in the RSA. His RP in running comment says "ridden and headed just before last, one pace and well held towards finish". If anything, I wonder if he's a bit soft as he has come 2nd and 3rd 4 times (admittedly 3 in Grade 1s).
Maybe they think he has speed for the middle distances races Liam. Dunno. Has such a big long stride on him a stiff finish over shorter might suit. Have a saver for the Ryanair
I think we need to see how he starts this season first before placing any bets tbh.
I think we need to see how he starts this season first before placing any bets tbh.
I hate the way people talk about the RSA as being a spoiler for horses. Just in the last 7 years it has produced the winner of the Gold Cup twice.
Who knows it may have been 3 had Trabolgan not busted his tendon after winning the Hennessy.
Who knows it may have been 3 had Trabolgan not busted his tendon after winning the Hennessy.
Rynair for sure. Sir Des Champs Gold Cup and alot better.
Luke what piece of form over 3 miles entitles Sir Des Champs to be 6/1 best price for Gold Cup? Like the horse a lot, but he is way too short on what he has acheived so far imo.
SDC certainly looks a class act from what ive seen of him,but we are talking about a Gold Cup here.
6/1 for a race 7 months away for a horse that has not even showed us he stays 3m,let alone 3m2 at Chelt!!
Hes a challenger of course,but stll a bit to prove for a horse as short as that.
6/1 for a race 7 months away for a horse that has not even showed us he stays 3m,let alone 3m2 at Chelt!!
Hes a challenger of course,but stll a bit to prove for a horse as short as that.
Sir Des Champs will be gigginstown main horse for gold cup agree 6-1 is short but he has class, plus First L is taylor made for Rynair and owner would love to win the race.
Before the Jewson there was a tiny ? as to whether SDC had the speed for the trip. It will be a suprise if he does not stay the Gold Cup trip, in fact it will probably suit him better.
Bobby worth wins gold cup i have been of that thought for 18 months now.
Yer probably right,but it could be argued from what weve seen thus far that SDC would be more suited to the Ryanair,having won the Jewson.
I personally dont think that,but until SDC shows us he stays the Gold Cup trip well,then doubts are there.
6/1 is ridiculous imo.
Anyway If Last Instalment lines up next March,i would rather be on him.
I personally dont think that,but until SDC shows us he stays the Gold Cup trip well,then doubts are there.
6/1 is ridiculous imo.
Anyway If Last Instalment lines up next March,i would rather be on him.
when we meeting at the races this year for a jar or five..............
when we meeting at the races this year for a jar or five..............
Budd, SDC won over 3m at Punchestown festival.
His price however is one of the most ludicrous I have seen.
His price however is one of the most ludicrous I have seen.
I think his price is probably based on the virtual certainty that the race will be won yet again by a horse having his first run in it (the last two renewals in hindsight, were probably a bit below par) and he is generally accepted to be the 'best' of the likely starters that fit that criteria. I couldn't back it at that price, as classy though he undoubtedly is, I think last years bunch of novices were pretty decent and any one of 5 or 6 winning would not be a shock to me. With a gun to my head I'd probably go for Bobs Worth, but will wait until he runs down the field on a couple of flat tracks before nicking a decent price 
Yeh Sint,he p!ssed up,forgot about that.
Like you say,still a daft price though.
Like you say,still a daft price though.
Budd, it was a wek race though and he fell through one of the fences iirc. He still has to prove he stays in good company.
indeed he does mate,hes a goodun alright,but still a bit to prove.
Really hope Last Instalment is ok this season,exciting Gold Cup type he is.
Really hope Last Instalment is ok this season,exciting Gold Cup type he is.
Medermit will be having his first run in the Gold Cup and Aintree confirmed that he needs a step up in trip
he has excellent course form and would like some good ground and a strong gallop
90 is massive for him, if he turns up will be much shorter
he has excellent course form and would like some good ground and a strong gallop
90 is massive for him, if he turns up will be much shorter
Agree with Medermit. Talented horse and trip would play to his strenghts.
Good to see you sticking to your guns Judo 
You were unlucky with that one this year.
You were unlucky with that one this year.
cheers Stront, will just look to get a good green in the race all round this time.
Judo, Medermit 0 from 8 round Cheltenham, i'd be disappointed if one of the many exciting novices couldn't beat him , for all that he is a classy consistent horse. Good luck tho.
After last years RSA Mouse Morris said we'll be back for the Gold Cup next year; how do placed RSA horses usually do in the Gold Cup?
Judo had nibble on Medermit as well talented horse but always makes one mistake too many,appears Gold Cup trip maybe the answer as he just stays on over whatever distance he runs at? As you state should be good trade.
yes Stevo, it's all about the trade, the horse is classy and has been placed in a very hot Paddy Power, a Supreme Novice and a Ryanair chase.. and the longer trip looks necessary now and I cannot see any other race for him next March so assuming he lines up he must be much shorter
Gutted he hasn't drifted out 
Thought he wasn't off a tap tho
Thought he wasn't off a tap tho
There's no shame at all in losing to Sizing Europe but losing to the other two doesn't exactly scream Gold Cup winner however unready he was.
If last year (and today's run) has anything to go by, I'd definitely not back him early antepost.
I think he may struggle in the trials races throughout the winter and won't be much shorter on the day for whatever race he goes for (it was Pricewise that sent his price into meltdown last year for the RSA).
There's also the unknown of the Ryanair and Gold Cup route, so wouldn't be one for me.
I think he may struggle in the trials races throughout the winter and won't be much shorter on the day for whatever race he goes for (it was Pricewise that sent his price into meltdown last year for the RSA).
There's also the unknown of the Ryanair and Gold Cup route, so wouldn't be one for me.
Form over fences is now 121P2234 and he's never won at better than G3.
He has ran 2 good races at the Festival though,so he does get there at his peak.
Personally dont think hes good enough to win the Gold Cup-especially this season-but if you do fancy him,at least you know he will be fit on the day.
Personally dont think hes good enough to win the Gold Cup-especially this season-but if you do fancy him,at least you know he will be fit on the day.
Agree with Stront. You can afford him 1 or 2 reasons for his defeat today but the fact Roi Du Mei beat him into 3rd is worrying regarding Grade 1 level prospects. Maybe Mouse is prepping him for the Hennessy at Newbury. 
Surely connections will now aim him at the Ryanair. Patently outstayed in the RSA, the James Nicholson and the Hennessey so zero chance of winning a Gold Cup.
He loves Cheltenham and surely deserve to be fav for the Ryanair at the moment yet currently 14/1 available.
He loves Cheltenham and surely deserve to be fav for the Ryanair at the moment yet currently 14/1 available.
I thought FL ran a stormer today, his jump 3 out was mental ! Bobs Worth is proving to be quite his nemesis though, i think FL is capable of a bit more granted a hare to aim at, something he'l hopefully get in the Blue Riband.
the usual argument that the ryanair chase is a less prestigious prize than champion chase or gold cup can hardly apply ?
Is it the case that owner will not target his own race at Chelt-odd if this is the case but some firms don't quote him and the stand out price is with our irish friends spoilsports...i fancy him for ryanair but i am concerned Mr o leary might not plunder his own money...quick look at last three years found no gigginstown runners...?????
so many giggy chasers now something will end up in Ryanair.
liam,he's a nice horse for sure,but he doesn't stay well enough for the gold cup,think he'd run well in a KG tbh,but i agree with some other on here,ryanair looks the one for him.
http://teeteeshorseracingforum.myfanforum.org/about780.html 
FL is a quality horse but I think this has effectively taken him out of the Gold Cup picture tbh
Ryanair a tailor made race for him
Possibly lads,he would obv have a great chance just dont fink he'l turn up there, his best form is over further. Maybe O'lairy cud stick a decent pacemaker in the Gold Cup !
Hard to see how FL will beat BW over this trip at level weights on a more demanding course. BW was never going better than at the end of the race. Maybe FL didn't quite get the trip, or he's possibly a bit soft?
FL is a spring horse, he runs his best races on good ground at Cheltenham. He will run better than he did yesterday for sure.
Think he might have been lit up a tad too much yesterday which would explain him not getting home.
Hes definitely a better horse in the Spring,and hes run well twice at the festival.
Gut feeling is hes below the required level though.
Hes definitely a better horse in the Spring,and hes run well twice at the festival.
Gut feeling is hes below the required level though.
yeah, i still like him but won't be backing him antepost, may as well just wait and see what happens gold cup wise if you're not already on
4 attempts in 3m chases and no wins yet, no chase wins higher than grade 3 either, shouldn't he have won something by now if he's going to win a gold cup in 3 months time?
although saying that, this time last year synchronised was a 4 mile handicapper and he managed to win it!
really cannot believe some cheeky bookies even CUT his price to 14/1 for the gold cup yesterday, they don't flipping give anything away do they?
4 attempts in 3m chases and no wins yet, no chase wins higher than grade 3 either, shouldn't he have won something by now if he's going to win a gold cup in 3 months time?
although saying that, this time last year synchronised was a 4 mile handicapper and he managed to win it!
really cannot believe some cheeky bookies even CUT his price to 14/1 for the gold cup yesterday, they don't flipping give anything away do they?
I'd be seriously considering the Ryanair now with FL. Reckon he could go close there, but can't see him reversing form with BW over Gold Cup trip.
Chances Liam. Big effort from him today. I still can't believe the price of SDC. Truly shocking.
Can't beat Tidal Bay or Bobs Worth on the book. If SDC had jumped, he would have been behind him too.
SDC didn't jump though, he's never been that convincing imo.
On the form book I agree, but that is why one horse is 7/2 and the other is 14/1.
Mouse has said he heads straight there now, his form figures after December are 12 and he was quite keen in the RSA last season.
On the form book I agree, but that is why one horse is 7/2 and the other is 14/1.
Mouse has said he heads straight there now, his form figures after December are 12 and he was quite keen in the RSA last season.
I think FL is bang there in the picture after today.
I was of the opinion he was just below the required level for a GC,but have changed my mind after that today.
That was a serious race today,and i can see all 4 of them lining up with a chance in the GC.
Hes got to the festival in top form twice before and will probably do so again.
I was of the opinion he was just below the required level for a GC,but have changed my mind after that today.
That was a serious race today,and i can see all 4 of them lining up with a chance in the GC.
Hes got to the festival in top form twice before and will probably do so again.
agree bud, changed my mind after todays run. Hey ho! 
Was a fantastic race today but if SDC jumps cleanly then he beats all of todays opponents comfortably in the Gold Cup imo. Whether he beats Bobs Worth is another matter, and as Bobs Worths jumping looks bomb proof he's a very worthy fav.
No mention of Tidal Bay uncle??
Nowt between him and Bobsworth in the Hennessey,won fair and square today over less than ideal,and will prefer 2f more at Cheltenham.
Nowt between him and Bobsworth in the Hennessey,won fair and square today over less than ideal,and will prefer 2f more at Cheltenham.
Budd - on the book Tidal bay is obviously a very big player. But for all that he is now much more consistent I still can't having him winning a Gold Cup unless it's horrendous going.
Also will Ruby ride him or Silvianco Conti - if Ruby chooses SC then I'd kiss goodbye to Tidal Bays chances.
Also will Ruby ride him or Silvianco Conti - if Ruby chooses SC then I'd kiss goodbye to Tidal Bays chances.
Fair enough,but it could well be a soft going festival,we have to think about that seriously mate.
The connections will be for sure,so should we.
The connections will be for sure,so should we.
Given the going that is prevalent this season just think how that would have suited Synchronised had they not been suckered into running in the Grand National just because they felt he was 'well handicapped'.
I honestly think they should be aiming FL at the Ryanair, but they won't. Can't see any reason why he should turn his form with Bobs Worth round. Also it looked like he didn't quite stay the extra 2f at Newbury so can't see why he would stay it better at Cheltenham.
I would back him for the Ryanair even with Flemestar in the race, if only I thought for 1 second they'd send him there but I don't
I would back him for the Ryanair even with Flemestar in the race, if only I thought for 1 second they'd send him there but I don't
He used up to much too early in the Hennessey i thought,and to me he looks like he would stay ok in a GC,he also improves every year as the season goes and is doing it again by the looks of it.
All systems go for March - lets hope the rain stops sometime before then ! It was pleasing to see Bryan Cooper ride FL with more restraint in the Lexus compared to Newbury, a tactic i'd like him to repeat in the Gold Cup.
I just hope he gets there now
I just hope he gets there now
Clearly improving and becoming far more consistent. His last two runs and RSA shows to me he will just get outstayed in the GC.
Don't want to be a killjoy but can easily see him turning out in O'Learys own race - he'll want to win it for sure.
Don't want to be a killjoy but can easily see him turning out in O'Learys own race - he'll want to win it for sure.
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