Cheltenham Festival
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David Pipe still seems very keen on Gold Glory for Grands Crus...
David Pipe still seems very keen on Gold Glory for Grands Crus...
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maybe the RSA is safer but this is the horse thought by many to be good enough to beat Big Bucks the best horse in training if he jumps soundly has too much toe for Long Run and would outstay Kauto.
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umm,not sure staying is GC's forte myself,think 3m is his absolute max at the top level.
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umm,not sure staying is GC's forte myself,think 3m is his absolute max at the top level.
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Yes, but he wasn't good enough to beat Big Buck's and that was over hurdles anyway. Pus you're just guessing if you think he'll outstay Kauto.
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Exactly. In the world hurdle he was running over the rest after the second last but didn't pull away from them like a horse relishing even 3 miles at championship pace at Cheltenham. He may stay the gold trip. I have grave reservations myself but that isn't the issue. There is a difference between your stamina just about lasting and that distance playing to your strengths.
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i would back him to outstay Kauto who was put to the sword by Denman and Imperial Commander
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lockup, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but if you genuinely think GC would out stay Kauto you should perhaps be taking more water with it IMHO!
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all about opinions my freind only time will tell.
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cool - have a great festival...
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you too Cobs if we all had the same views there would be nothing to discuss be lucky.
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If they don't let GC go for the GC this time there may never be a better opportunity, if he were mine I know that I would take the chance. RSA seems to break so many horses anyway, so why not go for the big un. Kauto has done great this year but he has always been better over 3 at Kempton or Haydock even in his prime. LR has not shown any improvement this year and still has the same iffy jock on board. Go for it David, what is there to lose?
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Going for the Cheltenham Gold Cup on the back of three novice chase runs would simply be insane. You cannot even compare it to the ill fated Gloria Victis who had had 6 chases including a competitive handicap before he went there. I'm sure they will come to their senses.
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GC is a novice so im trying to work out why it would outstay KS & Long run ...or even have too much toe. Running a novice in a GC would be a mistake and long run in my opinion would outstay a horse that to be honest wont stay the trip. As you say opinions so we will see
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This whole RSA breaks so many horses theory seems an interesting one to which the obvious answer is not if they are good enough. It didn't break Denman and it didn't break Long Run. Many horses get injured at the festival every year irrespective of race and others we simply don't know if they were that good in the first place. So who has it broken?
Seriously guys. I'm going to put this in a nutshell and see if it seems at all logical: The RSA is such a tough race that we are going to go for the easier option. The Gold Cup. |
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Yeah, I cant believe people use the RSA being a "race that breaks horses" as a reason to go for the Gold Cup, which is an extra 2 furlongs against far better horses.
Going for the Gold Cup with this horse would be foolish. It's 1/5 for the RSA imo |
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If a horse can't take the heat in an RSA what do they think the Gold Cup will do to them? The fact only 1 horse has successfully defended the crown since L'Escargot surely tells you how hard a race the Gold Cup is!
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if they think Silviniaco Conti would have some sort of chance in the Gold Cup then maybe it would be worth going, or maybe Bobs Worth would have a shout
FFS Grands Crus is going to struggle to win the RSA let alone get near the front of the Gold Cup field people getting ahead of themselves |
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Well said Judorick - for feck sake his form at novice level has taken knock after knock.Horse a massive place lay for me if it goes in the Gold cup.
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Well said Judorick - for feck sake his form at novice level has taken knock after knock.Horse a massive place lay for me if it goes in the Gold cup.
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David Pipe was talking about the race tonight and seemed to be defending a decision not to take on KS I would be amazed if he were to run in the GC, sounded like a definite no tonight....
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If that is the case then sense has prevailed and those who have racings and indeed the horses best interests at heart will breathe a sigh of relief.
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You mean those who have backed it for the RSA presumably, Eternal Optimist.
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Brave man who backed it for the gold cup , it was always going o be a slim chance, and to be fair he hasn't said for definite I guess this is because the owners are trying to push it , it did sound as though Pipe had won the battle..
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sankara
For them also I'm sure. If you are referring to me I see no value in a horse I'm not certain will be suited by either race. Paradoxically had they gone for the Ryanair then I almost certainly would have backed the horse at the right price. |
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Gold Cup?
RSA? Ryanair? Hell throw in the Croiss Country Chase why not? He was declared for the Argento Chase on Trials Day and then pulled out. Was declared for a novice chase on the original (abandoned) Newbury Saturday. Hasn't been declared for anything else since. Did he need a prep or not and if so, would it be against seasoned Grade 1 /2 chasers or beating up a bunch of novices, over what distance? What does the owner(s) want from the horse? What do they want from the trainer? (Buy a dog and bark yourselves by the looks of things). What does the trainer want? Throw in the Pipe's patented 'Trappist Monk meets Yoda at his most obtuse' approach to Public Relations and you've got , a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. |
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For those of you doubting that the RSA can break horses the following winners of the race have never been the same since the race:
Weapon's Amnesty, Cooldine, Star De Mohaison, Trabolgan, Rule Supreme, One Knight, Hussard Collonges. Before you start slating posts get your facts right. |
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To add to my last post, these winners were all in the last 10 years, not to even mention the losers who were not the same.
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It's well known the RSA is a hard race but that's irrelevant because we don't know what running in the harder, longer gold cup would have done to those horses.
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Trabolgan came out to win the Hennessy the nest season, perhaps the Hennessy broke him? Cooldine!! 2nd in the Irish Hennessy beaten a neck the following season before running in the Gold Cup. Never the same after the Gold Cup. Wonder which race broke him?
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PS you can add Bostons Angel to your list!
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correct missed him!!
If you look at the last 10 winners of the Gold Cup you do not see such a war of attrition, the form is in the book, I would not run a good horse in the RSA, simple. The stats don't lie. |
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Nice little pun there.
What about War of Attrition? Denman? Imperial Commander? Kauto took a year to get over imperial's Gold Cup. Long Run doesn't look the same horse (jury out!). Pleanty of horses never run as well again afer their first Gold Cup. That said, you make a fair point about not running a good horse in the RSA. But that's not a reason to run him in the Gold Cup as an inexperienced novice. Better to wait another year perhaps? |
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part of the problem is the going, it is too quick for staying chasers since they over drained the track
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They claim the drainage just makes the ground the same all the way round - without it there would be fast bits and boggy bits. It isn't the same drainage round the whole track apparently, just where it was needed.
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Know what you mean about Imperial and WOA but not Kauto, he has been round the block and run in more GC's than you care to remember. On Denman it was probably the RSA run that quickened his demise!!!
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Personally I think you are all (YOU'RE ) missing the point
It's very hard for many many a horse to bounce back from a hard race at the festival. Whether it be a RSA or GOLD CUP horses are running at a pace that they don't normally encounter at any other race of the season I've never bought into a novice running in open company as a problem. If they are mature enough they will handle it. Every horse develops at different times For me GRANDS CRUS has proved he can run fast enough at championship pace ( last years stayers) and has proved he can jump at pace. When he won the race at kempton and injected pace half way, I don't believe they would run any faster in the gold cup. It's just a question whether can run that fast, long enough |
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Lost - re Kauto, I've read quite a persuasive arguement that Imperial's Gold Cup was brutal and took a lot out of all the major players - Imperial himself, Demman and Cooldine, as well as Kauto (who in this scenario took a year to get over it).
Brandy - you make an excellent point that "It's very hard for many many a horse to bounce back from a hard race at the festival." It's likely that any such race will be the most demanding a horse has yet faced and therefore to represent where many horses will peak. |
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Agree with you strong except KAUTO. he was travelling well (maybe too well) when he smacked one very hard. Was never going after before he took a neck breaking fall. I thought he was a gonna.. I think that's what took the stuffing out of him. But yes we are on the same path as the festival is an ultimate test that many a horse can not bounce back from
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