World Hurdle

Could be a tiny field.  If I was fortunate to have a 3m hurdler good enough to run at Cheltenham I'd make sure it was qualified for Pertemps Final. Avoid Big Bucks at all costs.  Good luck to Oscar Whisky.

good luck indeed....wrong race in my mind

Before you know it, there will be a Ryanair Hurdle.

the ideal centrepiece for a 5 day meeting...god forbid!

makes perfect sense,big threat.

shockster Joined: 26 Oct 05
Replies: 192 13 Jan 12 21:41   


Could be a tiny field.  If I was fortunate to have a 3m hurdler good enough to run at Cheltenham I'd make sure it was qualified for Pertemps Final. Avoid Big Bucks at all costs.  Good luck to Oscar Whisky. 

place money good though.

Howdi fair point, but I am talking about a chance of winning.  OW has a chance, but I doubt anything else has unless something unforseen happens.

fair play to connections for giving us a race then,walkover would not be much fun.

7/4 w/out Big Bucks with Hills is a stonking bet!

Re the 7/4, the others in the market are:

9/2 Thousand Stars: Mullins indicated he's taking same route as last year. CH, Aintree and France
11/2 Voler la Vedette: Unlikely to come to Cheltenham according to trainer
7/1 Mourad: Probable runner, but while consistent doesn't have class of OW
7/1 So Young: Been running in egg and spoon races in Ireland this year
10/1 543: Very injury prone and probably past his best
10/1 Mikeal D: Nowhere near back to his best, winning low grade races in Ireland
12/1 Dynaste: Doubt Pipe would run him against the Champ again.

So, if you take 1000 Stars, VLV and Dynaste out then 7/4 will be a huge price on the day imo.

Agree with that wellchief, good analysis.

As for targeting a good horse at the Pertemps???? Why would anyone touch that dog of a race with a bargepole? I'd take my chances in the Coral Cup (or even the Champion and watch my horse lose by a couple of furlongs!)

By: This user is online. wellchief
Date Joined: 17 Dec 09 Add contact | Send message
When: 15 Jan 12 10:53 Joined: Date Joined: 17 Dec 09 | Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: wellchief's blog
Re the 7/4, the others in the market are:

9/2 Thousand Stars: Mullins indicated he's taking same route as last year. CH, Aintree and France
11/2 Voler la Vedette: Unlikely to come to Cheltenham according to trainer


Where did you hear that about Voler Wellchief? Would have fancied her for the mares hurdle - just don't believe Quevega just keep on keep onturning up for her one race a year (despite having a nice touch on her last year!)

Would have to agree with the rest of your comments though - well put

Murphy also admitted that he could be tempted to run Voler La Vedette at the Cheltenham Festival despite the reservations of her owner.

"Nothing has been written in stone with regard to the David Nicholson race but we will give her an entry and have a look at it. There are lots of options over here between Fairyhouse and Punchestown and we'll decide nearer the time."

This is from last week.  I always thought it was Colm Murphy who wasn't keen to bring her over, didn't realise it was the owner.  Sorry Nick, I suppose she could then come over for the Mares, but would still be a non runner in the WH (she is 25/1 on here for that, so that would indicate an unlikely runner)

She might also run in the Champion - she's run in a couple of 2 mile Grade 1 hurdles over the last year or so as well as 2 1/2 and 3 m.

I think OW will give BB a race tbh. And have backed accordingly NRNB mutha phuckers.

Cheers WellC - think we agree about the value in the WH, but looks like I shouldn't get involved in the mares race until a bit nearer the time then.... ta

I have to say 7/1 Mourad without BB looks good to me. Very consistent and rarely unplaced, could capitalise on OW if his stamina gives out and if backed EW looks like a bet to nothing.

I'm 50/50 to do the same with So Young shockster.

7/1 ew without BB, means basically finish in the top 4.  I'd probably only do about a fiver e/w so don't think its worth it to win £3.75 if he finishes in the top 4.

I'm about to email a few bookies to see if I can get any bigger than 7/4 on Oscar Whisky - don't think I will though.

I am on 6/1 with BB Oscar for this world hdl! Am very happy with it as think i should be able to lay OW for full e/w stake in the place only market on the day! This race surely going to turn into the ultimate filthy e/way race and with the added insurance hopefully of the lay am happy!
As for small field, cannot see it, said this about last years and there was still loads of runners. Think there will still be about 20 runners this year, of course about 15 of them will be 33/1+ lol.

On OW to big stakes (for me anyway) at 8/1 (no nrnb) and assuming his prep goes to plan and the ground is decent I think he'll go off no bigger than 3/1 on the day so I'll be able to lay off have a very nice free bet

Thinking about it, I'd rather do So Young ew at 20/1, so effectively 5/1 to finish in the top 3, rather than ew w/out Big Bucks at 7/1 were it is effectively under 2/1 top 4.

Definitely all about the top 2 though.

Mourad on here at 46, that looks to big a price and can lay off come the day  around 10/1

cant see oscar at 3s with bucky in the field and he's no each way cert as he may not stay

Uncle, where is Oscar at 8s NRNB?

Oscar will be no bigger than 7/2 on the day, this allowing for the bad e/way liabilities this race will almost certainly become! Will be around 1/2 in the place market on here.

I still think he should run in the Champion and be close to favourite!

Stront.......shut up!!

R Carver, he said No NRNB. Think 8/1 was with hills.

Hendo quote today "But it is well worth Oscar Whisky taking on Big Buck's as there is a lot of prize money on offer and second in the World Hurdle would be better than third or fourth in a Champion Hurdle."

NH should know where he stands with the horse regarding Champ hurdle.  After all he has Grandouet, Spirit Son and Binocular. If he believes OW was better than these he would go for the Champ. Obviously he doesn't and as such will have a crack at Big Bucks.  If he stays could be a great race.

R Carver
15 Jan 12 21:13

Uncle, where is Oscar at 8s NRNB?

He was 8/1 with Billies after his win on New Years Day (was still available a day or two later as well) and I highlighted it then on a couple of threads as being an outstanding betting opportunity. It was not NRNB - so if he breaks a leg at Ffos Las I'm screwed.

I'll just say "Punjabi".

I think it's more the case that the owner really wants a crack at Big Buck's (fair enough, it's his horse) and Hendo doens't have anything else to aim at the WH but has quite a strong group for the Champion. NJH clearly loves Spirit Son but he could be the hype horse of the season - what's this beast actually done on a raceocurse to deserve his current price in the market? Of the 4 Hendo hurdlers, a 6 l beating by Hurricane Fly (OW in the last Champion) is much the best piece of form in the book over the last year imo.

Howdi
15 Jan 12 20:28

cant see oscar at 3s with bucky in the field and he's no each way cert as he may not stay

Grand Crus was 7/2 last year and Oscar will have a very sexy profile going into the race.

The on course £10-100 punters, and your average betting shop punters aren't going to lump onto Big Bucks at 4/7 so they will back Oscars instead forcing his price down - imo anyway.

I also expect Henderson and Gerraghty to have won about half a dozen races by then so hopefully there will be some momentum.

Well its all been said before really,its all about whether he stays well enough.March will tell us,nothing will tell us before then.
All i am bothered about is whether connections think hes worthy of running in the race when he would probably have a place chance in the CH.
By his entry that tells me they think he has a serious chance.
Whatever way you look at it,it certainly adds some spice and excitement to the race,no doubt.

Oscar Whisky was third in last year's Champion Hurdle and his trainer now feels the time is right to have a crack at the mighty Big Buck's in the Ladbrokes World Hurdle over an unchartered three miles.

"Two and half miles suits Oscar Whisky well but his next run will be over two miles as he is going to Ffos Las for the Welsh Champion Hurdle," Henderson said.

"It might not be a logical route but it is obviously because Dai Walters owns him and Ffos Las and wants him there so that is where we are going to go.

"He won it last year and I would like to win it again and then we will switch him from two miles to three miles for the World Hurdle and there is no great problem with that.

"I can't see how he is going to win the Champion Hurdle and I wish there was a champion two and a half mile event as that would be made for him as he proved at Aintree last year.

"He has been great and is improving all the time. That last win at Cheltenham was very professional, clinical and impressive so at least we might try and give Big Buck's a race - although we will be extremely unpopular if we beat him.

"It will probably be the same if Long Run beats Kauto Star in the Gold Cup but it is our job to try and beat them. But it is well worth Oscar Whisky taking on Big Buck's as there is a lot of prize money on offer and second in the World Hurdle would be better than third or fourth in a Champion Hurdle.

"It is the logical route to take but there is a bit of guesswork and a lot of people say he won't stay three miles. I would be surprised if he didn't."

Big Buck's will bid to make history in the Labrokes World Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival in March with a fourth successive victory in the contest.

Having beaten everything in his path on the way to an undefeated run of 14 straight victories over timber, the Nicky Henderson-trained Oscar Whisky has emerged as a potential pretender to his crown.

Owner Andy Stewart told sportinglife.com: "Oscar Whisky's owner Dai Walters has said why don't we split the prize money in the World Hurdle because I think I have the only horse that can beat Big Buck's.

"You never know what is going to beat Big Buck's - first of all you don't know whether Oscar Whisky will go for the Champion Hurdle as he has an option of going there if Hurricane Fly for one reason or another did not turn up.

"I assume Dai Walters will run him in the Welsh Champion Hurdle at Ffos Las and then we will see if he stays three miles at Cheltenham."

Big Buck's' last outing in Ascot's Lough Derg Long Walk Hurdle before Christmas saw him claim another Grade 1 prize and although he ran out a supremely easy winner, the race was not wihout incident as David Pipe's Dynaste looked to have stolen an advantage after the third last.

"I suppose we all had a little bit of a jitter," Stewart added.

"It just slowed him up a little bit as David Pipe's horse was trying to get him beaten but as soon as he skipped over that one, he managed to do it well and Five Dream came second also for Paul Nicholls.

"It was the first time Big Buck's had raced right-handed and Ruby (Walsh) said he wanted to be reasonably careful coming round the final bend. But he soon got everything under control and I am delighted that was his 14th win."

Stewart has seen nothing this season to suggest that Big Buck's is not still at the peak of his powers while still enjoying every second of being involved with perhaps the greatest staying hurdler of all time.

"Big Buck's has turned nine now and is a stronger horse than last year - I am not sure whether he has improved but he has certainly not gone backwards.

"It is an absolute privilege owning the horse. Little kids come up and ask if they can have the autograph of "Mr Big Buck's". We obviously feel the pressure but it is an enjoyable thing when you have a horse as phenomenal as he is."

Thanks Sintonian / Uncle re 'non NRNB' for Oscar Whiskey - I misread it. I was just about to go and empty my bank account!

When is Thousand Stars gonna step up in trip this season if at all? I've backed him NRNB so not too worried if he goes for the CH but really thought he'd go for and have a great chance in the WH.

Waiting to here back from a few bookies, re Oscar Whisky w/out Big Bucks, but they are all quoting 7/4 whether its on their site or not. Was hoping someone would be brave and offer 2/1 for a single punter

Betfair have put up a Gold Cup market w/o Kauto and Long Run. Hpefully they'll put up a World Hurlde w/o Big Buck's as well soon. We can but ask!

OW does have an entry in the Champion.

YAAAAAAYYY!  Betfair have put up a World Hurdle w/out Big Bucks.

Would anyone kindly lay me £20 on Oscar Whisky @ 2/1?

LADBROKES WORLD HURDLE
Class 1, Grade 1, £260,000. 3m. Thursday, March 15th.

Form Horse Age Owner Trainer
2206-33 BARWELL BRIDGE 6 Tracy Brown Warren Greatrex
1111-11 BIG BUCK'S (FR) 9 The Stewart Family Paul Nicholls
141/- BOBBY EWING (IRE) 7 Just Good Friends David Pipe
1111-13 BOBS WORTH (IRE) 7 The Not Afraid Partnership Nicky Henderson
412-402 CANTLOW (IRE) 7 R V Shaw Paul Webber
0214-35 CARLITO BRIGANTE (IRE) 6 Gigginstown House Stud Gordon Elliott IRE
210-131 CELESTIAL HALO (IRE) 8 The Stewart Family Paul Nicholls
124/0P-5 CRACK AWAY JACK 8 GDM Partnership Paul Nicholls
214-545 CROSS KENNON (IRE) 8 P & Mrs G A Clarke Jennie Candlish
3216-14 DYNASTE (FR) 6 John White David Pipe
051/-230 EL DANCER (GER) 8 Ron Davies Lucy Wadham
13U-112 FEATHERBED LANE (IRE) 7 Terry Warner Philip Hobbs
11-6541 FINAL APPROACH 6 Douglas Taylor Willie Mullins IRE
36-0222 FIVE DREAM (FR) 8 Scott-MacDonald, Kilduff, Donlon & Doyle Paul Nicholls
152/11U- FLAT OUT (FR) 7 M O'Riordan Willie Mullins IRE
1F0-114 KING OF THE NIGHT (GER) 8 Mr & Mrs G Calder Paul Nicholls
F-40311 MIKAEL D'HAGUENET (FR) 8 Susannah Ricci Willie Mullins IRE
13-2422 MOURAD (IRE) 7 Teahon Consulting Limited Willie Mullins IRE
131-F11 OSCAR WHISKY (IRE) 7 Walters Plant Hire Ltd Nicky Henderson
122-1 OUR FATHER (IRE) 6 The Ives & Johnson Families David Pipe
4P/-2360 PETTIFOUR (IRE) 10 J B Pettifer Nigel Twiston-Davies
131-12 POUNGACH (FR) 6 Donlon, Doyle, MacDonald & Webb Paul Nicholls
102-124 PRIMA VISTA 7 Joseph Kirwan Noel Meade IRE
3011/1-1 QUEVEGA (FR) 8 Hammer & Trowel Syndicate Willie Mullins IRE
121(1)15- RECESSION PROOF (FR) 6 P Taylor & J Stone John Quinn
30-1323 RESTLESS HARRY 8 R G Whitehead Robin Dickin
3-20232 SAPHIR RIVER (FR) 6 Fat Gary Sports Michael Scudamore
621310- SMAD PLACE (FR) 5 Mrs Peter Andrews Alan King
13-6111 SO YOUNG (FR) 6 Mrs M McMahon Willie Mullins IRE
UF-4U02 THE GIANT BOLSTER 7 Simon Hunt David Bridgwater
2-22112 THOUSAND STARS (FR) 8 Hammer & Trowel Syndicate Willie Mullins IRE
3226U-3 TIDAL BAY (IRE) 11 Andrea & Graham Wylie Paul Nicholls
1-14111 VOLER LA VEDETTE (IRE) 8 Mrs M Brophy Colm Murphy IRE
1220-11 ZAIDPOUR (FR) 6 Susannah Ricci Willie Mullins IRE
34 entries
11 Irish-trained

Thanks BJG, I appreciate you putting the entries up. The sources I usually use have generally been very slow to post the Cheltenham entries so far this year.

Surely Thousand Stars will run in the WH instead of the CH. It has been proven time and again that he cannot beat H.Fly over 2M so why not take on Big Bucks. His impressive win over 3M 1 1/2F in soft ground in France proves he stays (none other than Grands Crus behind that day too !). Also would have beaten OW (over 2 1/2M) at Aintree in another stride. Would be a very dangerous horse in the WH IMO, so Willie please let him take his chance !!!

Interesting thoughts here....

http://starbets.ie/horse-racing/mullins-holds-the-key-to-conquering-big-bucks/

Agree entirely with above article in relation to Thousand Stars. Cannot understand why they would not run in the WH rather than the CH en route to Aintree. Unless of course Ruby has told Mullins that Big Bucks won't be beaten !

Ruby is probably telling him that but TS has place chances at best in the CH so why they aren't having a crack at BB is beyond me. There's every indication in TS's form that he has the capabilities of giving BB the fright of his life.

Maybe they think a hard, staying race at Cheltenham isn;t the best prep for his big targets at Aintree and in the French Champion Hurdle?

Thats a fair point,if Cheltenham was the main target im pretty sure thats where he would run,but it has been said that Aintree and France are his main priorities.

Disappointing if that's the way they're going to go. Just avoiding BB so...

Well he is still a possibilty as hes in the entries,and for me the thought of him and Oscar taking on Big Bucks excites me,think they both have a fair chance of winning as well.
Be a real shame imo if he missed the race,and then if Oscar did as well would be a real downer as far as i am concerned,and more importantly the race itself.

Agree 100% would be great to see them all line up.....would be all over TS in the W/O BB market however !!

The French Champion Hrd has better prize money than the World Hurdle (a few k less for winning but the place money is better) and is run over a similar distance,  but in June. There won't be anything like Big Buck's in France - you can see their point, but it does mean a different timescale to most other British/irish horses.

Just cant beat him!

None of that lot can

Just have one bet on for the whole week me thinks, if your going to back something in some other race, don't bother, save the stake(s) and whack it all on BIG BUCKS imo! At 1/2 nrnb, i certainly am thinking about doing just that and backing whatever i was aiming that stake at on the day!

How boring,backing one 1/2 shot all week at the festival.
Shape up man!!

see the bookies have cut his odds after today,was they not expecting that performance today then??

Bucksy owes me a deal less than nothing, so even if he gets beat I won't be that annoyed.

I can't see it, altho it would concern me if they went too slow as one can reasonably assume this would favour OW stepping up for the first time.

It is not what i ment it to sound like Budd, sorry. I ment if you was to have an antepost bet between now and the fest, just have it on BB instead at 1/2 nrnb, ok, wont be any bigger than that on the day and defo unlikely to be any shorter but he will win am sure of that! I am on OW at 6s ew but i cant see past BB in all honesty!

Save your rest of the week bets until the week. Bet them fancies on the day and take advantage of all the specials!

GL you wont need it

yeh i see that now mate.

Will be interesting to see how the race is run,think BG will track BB all the way,and hope to pounce late on??

If Oscar Whisky runs, and stays, who knows mate. He has only come off the bridle once, and showed he had class in last terms champion hurdle. He is a very exciting horse over 2.5 miles, that is for sure, i think he will stay, but BB has disposed of everything and anything that has come to try him. I do think he will win, but if he is to be beat, well lets just say there is/could be only 2 realistic horses in it!

I don't know how you beat BB though. He's the perfect race horse. He hurdles so fluently. He has a high cruising speed, a great turn of foot, buckets of stamina and he's tough. A joy to watch.

I took the Sid James bet this morning of 10/11 to win today and the World Hurdle.  Didn't think that was a bad bet, considering he was 1/5 today at the time of placing it.

Just got back now from Cheltenham.  He got a great reception from the crowd when he came in - had me worried for one or two seconds though.

Great line from Ruby in his post race interview along the lines of "why do people worry - the winning line isn't at the top of the hill"!

Couldn't dream of opposing BB. Pure class.  I really rate Dynaste and think Oscar Whiskey will do well to beat him.

Oscar will do well to beat him of course,this is Big Bucks.I think he could do it.

I was talking about OW beating Dynaste.  Right now I would take Dynaste in a match bet against OW.

Oh,sorry.
Thats a fair point Shock,if Oscar dont stay he wont beat Dynaste.
If he does i expect OW to beat all of them,with maybe one exception.Or maybe 2 if Thousand Stars turns up.

I think if they rode OW to get second, he would get second quite easily.  However, that'll never happen because obviously they want to win the World Hurdle.

The only problem is, if OW does take on Big Bucks and doesn't stay then he could be a sitting duck for someone like Dynaste (a bit like when Nacarat has been punished for attempting to beat Kauto in the King George, or when Dynaste was punished first time against Big Bucks for taking him on early).

Come on Wellchief, you're not suggesting Dynaste was ridden for second today.  He was ridden to win, but not good enough and even so it was a long way back to Mourad.

Not suggesting at all that he was ridden for second, and he stayed on well up the hill.

What I'm saying is if they ride Oscar Whisky conservatively in order to get the trip and forget about Big Bucks, I think he'll beat everything else in the field.  However, if they use his speed and kick for home and try and get Big Bucks at it, then it could cost him in the "unknown" half mile, where he could get mugged by something else who is proven to stay 3m (like Dynaste)

Ok, but if they're never going to ride for 2nd.  They might as well go for Champ hurdle as do that.  So with that in mind do you think he will finish in front of Dynaste?

That's the big question, and the answer is, I don't know because we don't know how much stamina he's got. 

He could empty in a matter of strides, or he could stay up the hill strong and we'll all wonder why he didn't try 3 miles earlier.

And Big Bucks will stroll past him and laugh anyway

I often giggle when i read people when they say things like

"if they race for second, they will get 2nd easily and forget about Big Bucks"

Maybe that is the holy grail to beating him

chief,that sums it up mate,we just dont know.
gonna be fascinating finding out for sure,and the race is a lot more intresting with the presence of OW,thats for sure.

Maybe that is the holy grail to beating him, race only in the mindset for finishing 2nd, let Big Bucks bowl along as he likes, when Ruby senses no more dangers just before the last, stoke your mount up, hit top gear just as your jumping the last but stay on the other side of the course to Big Bucks, gallop furiously past just before the line, Ruby wont know which way you went!

I am sure those tactics were tried on the flat to beat the great Giants Causeway, or was it Rock of Gibralter I am sure it was one of O'Briens greats anyways.

Well todays performance from Hurrican Fly will surely put an end to any talk about Oscar Whisky going for the Champion.

STS - such tactics were indeed used against Giant's Causeway!
Furthermore...they WORKED too, as a bum (as far as big race winners go) like Observatory managed to outfox him at Ascot - or maybe that should read Darley/Gosden outfoxed Coolmore with their plan to keep wide of that bruiser.

Maybe a battle-hardened warrior like Kalanisi took the 'edge' off The Iron Horse, and Observatory was in exactly the right place at the right time - he really can't be regarded in the same class as Giant's Causeway, and for some of the younger racing fans...you reckon Sea The Stars had a hard season?

Take a peek at the career of this chap, and he did everything the hard way - his 3yo season will surely be on youtube.

A mention should also be given to the constitution/ability of his conqueror at the Breeders' Cup, Tiznow - what a horse that was...he managed to out-battle Giant's Causeway, and then another (possibly better) champion in Sakhee a year later!

Probably so Uncle, as long as HF makes it to the Festival this year. Though I still think OW has more chance of beating HF than BB. However, the World is the less competetive race if they're happy to play for a second place.

I think you are thinking of Observatory beating Giants Causeway there Sea

It just HAS to be the World Hurdle for Oscar Whisky...even though I doubt he can serve it up to Big Buck's over three miles.

He's got too much speed and I think 2m4f is the max for him.
Can anyone name a hurdler that they've seen that looks comfortable over 2M & 3M?

I can't think of one, though Thousand Stars does a decent impression, and with age, Solwhit looks the type worth having a bash - there doesn't seem to be a hurdling equivalent of Desert Orchid or Kauto Star does there?

PS - those with long memories will recall that the race has had a furlong chopped from it...that has to 'inconvenience' Big Buck's.

Great to see the Fly back and looking good.
Should put paid to any thoughts of OW in the CH.
Bl00dy hope so!!

Hugh - Mysilv had a go at 2&3m.

Fair point about Mysilv but she was way off top-class over either trip IMV.

Nomadic Way, 2nd in CH to Morley Street, had already won Irish Champion.  Went on to win Stayers Hurdle.

TLU - that's a better example, and an exception to the rule.
They're not easy to find and even as strong a stayer as Hardy Eustace struggled over longer trips, when IMV looking as if he'd appreciate a real stamina test.

The Welsh Champion Hurdle entry isn't going to scare OW much. The only thing within 20 lbs of him is Starluck.

stewart, nicholls and walsh will do everything in their power to make sure bb wins his 4th world hurdle. i thimk pacemakers wil be used by them this year to take the slow pace angle out of the race. celestial halo is the perfect horse to go out there and set a strong pace for at least the first 2miles. after that u'll have the likes of dynaste etc taking over the pace. OW will have to stay the 3miles very well to have even a slight chance of beating BB. BB has a lethal blend of speed, acceleration and stamina and thats what makes him so good. he put 7 lengths between himself and dynaste (giving him 4lb) from the last hurdle to the line again without walsh having to touch him.

For sure Celestial Halo will be employed. Oscar Whisky will think he is in the Champion Hurdle and then he will realise he still has to come down the hill again and then go back up that horrible hill in front of the stands.

No one said it would be easy beating Big Bucks,but its great we have a race thats got people talking.
If they are thinking of using CH or others it says to me they are a tad concerned,and so they should be.Oscar aint the normal calibre of horese that Bucksy has been beating up.