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Cheltenham Festival
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These 62 comments are related to the topic:
What a race the Feltham promises to be with RSA and Gold Cup in mind!
What a race the Feltham promises to be with RSA and Gold Cup in mind!
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Replies: 62
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He won't say it's not worth a hill of beans.
 The RP race reader's comment on Kauto was "awesome" - which you don't see every day. |
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Personally I think he should go for the gold cup
It's been said on this thread how horses only seem to perform once in the race. Well he is well and in fine form this season so have a go. How if he finished 2nd or 3rd that the owner would be gutted he didn't try for the RSA. I would be delighted with a placed effort to be honest Trying to compare time for rupert. Well he has proved this year he is well short of the mark anyway, so if he had run last year it wouldn't of affected his below the grade performances this season anyway Why wait till next year. He will be 7 this season, the perfect age. Has shown against big bucks the talent he has. He has jumped at speed very effectively, can't see them going any quicker in the gold cup than they were in the feltham. not sure what the benefits of waiting will be. If he was an in and out jumper then he would need time to improve but he isn't. And to be fair long run proved last year you don't have to be able to jump to win a gold cup. |
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Surely we just wait and see after the Argento; imo if he hacks up again in that he'll be Gold Cup bound
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Agree blue bird the Argento will tell us more...but I would say that may end up a weak race and it may be an easy decision with the Pipes and the owner already in the ante RSA camp...
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I don't agree
I don't think they are getting stuck into grand crus ante post for the RSA grand crus is a mover in the gold cup Market. And the main dangers to him in the RSA (if he did run) have also contracted in price. Looking at the markets the gold cup could be his race So I would say they are PRO gold cup and ANTI rsa |
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sorry should of said anti RSA camp..as I said earlier in the thread the pipes don't like the RSA
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I don't understand how the Pipes hate the RSA but think it's a good idea to pitch a novice in a Gold Cup against seasoned campaigners
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Last year he ran against seasoned campaigners and only found the great big bucks to good
Surely your only concern would be his jumping, which will be put to the test in either race he ran in |
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Fair point didn't think about it that way.
Either way I can't have him as a RSA or GC winner as i'm not overly convinced he has the necessary slogging abilities that is normally needed to win those races Just seems a bit 'flashy' to me Would be a fascinating runner in the GC nonetheless |
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He's already a top class staying hurdler who made Big Buck's work hard in a World Hurdle and a top class novice chaser so I think they may swerve The RSA and go down The Gold Cup route where he'd be at least 3rd on form although I accept he's not absolutely certain to stay. If he doesn't they could go for The Champion Chase next year preceded by The Hennessy as per One Man.
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Why does everyone assume David Pipe = Martin pipe?
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Because Martin always leads the winners into the winners enclosure
 and David doesn't own a BMX Bandit |
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Incidentally Booster, he may be third on "form" but he's some way off third on current official ratings! I can think of 8 likley runners who are currently rated higher, without trying very hard.
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Which is 9lb higher than kauto star was rated after 3 chases.
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Indeed, though he did fall in one of those (remounted). But Kauto won his first Gold Cup on his 11th chase start, whereas Grand Crus would be asked to do it on (probably) his fifth.
In between his third and 11th starts, Kauto won 2 Tingle Creeks, a Betfair, a King George, an Old Roan, an Aon, and fell in the Champion Chase - all of which strikes me as better preparation for winning a Gold Cup than Grands Crus has had. |
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Strontium, thanks but I'm not sure how your point about ratings is particularly relevant when most people who follow racing will know he has it in him to be much better than 159 when those already rated higher are either stuck on a similar rating or on the way down. Punters can either follow official ratings or use their eyes and make their own assumptions about whether a horse whose won his 3 chase starts emphatically and beaten a festival winner from last year from one of the most powerful yards in England practicaly on the bridle is likely to progress above his current rating and whether others in the same race are in decline.
That's why I'd go down The Racing Post Chase route with him as he's clearly better than that mark. |
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I agree Grands Crus has the potential to be better than 159, perhaps much better. But on his form in the book, officially assessed, that's where he is. My point is that you said Grands Crus would be at least 3rd on form if he ran in the Gold Cup. I disagree. I assume you mean Kauto and Long Run would be 1st and 2nd in some order. What a Friend and Burton Port clearly have better form in the book than GC. So, arguably do Diamond Harry, Weird Al and Captain Chris. GC will probably be better than those five in time, but at the moment, on actual form, in real races run, he is not.
Incidentally, you may not like using ratings but they are a fabulous predictor of success in Grade 1 races. It often pays to look for the obvious at the highest level. |
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I agree on the last point for sure, Planet Of Sound at Punchestown 2 years ago at 25-1 early morning price being such an event I remember fondly and my wording was probably not the best.
I'll take those horses you mention one at a time. What A Friend was beaten in receipt of 2 stone by Denman in a Hennessy and usually runs sideways when asked for maximum effort. Burton Port is surely too slow for a Gold Cup and lost a Hennessy off a low weight due to his inability to jump fluently at speed at the cross fence. Diamond Harry is my favourite horse in training but has been withdrawn on the morning of 2 of his last 3 intended races and was disappointing under ideal conditions in The Betfair Chase and hardly shouts Gold Cup winner. Surely The Irish Hennessy would be ideal if he can be kept sound? Weird Al was impressive in The Charlie Hall but what did he beat? I couldn't have him in The Gold Cup after he was left behind at Haydock and I can't really see an absolute top class piece of form in the book. Captain Chris I guess could be the fly in the ointment but he's not set the world alight this season yet. Mind you he did similarly last season before winning The Arkle. |
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Grands Crus has got massive potential for sure, and as I said I think he'll end up better than those 5 named horses. I don't see any of them as strong candidates for the 2012 Gold Cup - but imo they are all ahead of Grands Crus in the formbook today in terms of real achievements over fences.
Looking at their form in a favourable light, WAF finished a head behind the current Gold Cup 2nd favourite in last year's race and about 7 l behind Denman. In his last 2 races Burton Port beat Long Run over 3 m at Cheltenham and came 2nd in the Hennessey despite clattering the cross fence. Diamond Harry won the Hennessey. Weird Al won the Charlie Hall then was 2 l behind Long Run in the Betfair. Captain Chris won the Arkle and came 3rd in the King George 2 weeks ago despite appearing not to stay. |
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All facts absolutely true and our job as punters to decide on the day at the prices which represents the best value or which we think will win under the prevailing conditions.
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Indeed, and it's thinking about and weighing up the numerous factors that make racing fun. Good luck with your bets
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Same to you, I've enjoyed the chat.
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Jockey Barry Geraghty still retains plenty of faith in Bobs Worth, despite his defeat at the hands of Grands Crus in the Feltham Novices' Chase at Kempton.
The seven-year-old, trained by Nicky Henderson, disappointed when beaten five and a quarter lengths in third place by David Pipe's talented grey in the three-mile Grade One on Boxing Day. Bobs Worth has had a wind operation since then and is likely to have one more run before the RSA Chase at the Cheltenham Festival in March, for which he is 5-1 second favourite behind Grands Crus. "He's had a little wind operation and I'm sure he'll have another run before Cheltenham, but where exactly I'm not sure," Geraghty told At The Races. "I thought he did well to run as well as he did at Kempton. He just wasn't 100%. I suppose with it being a quicker track he was under pressure a little bit early. "Grands Crus is a very good horse, definitely. "He's a high-class horse and was a high-class hurdler - I wouldn't underestimate him - but I'd like to think there's better to come from Bobs Worth." |