Cheltenham Festival
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I really liked the way this horse went in his last two runs. Beat teaforthree and restlessharry at chelt on chasing debut and then empactically beat mossley back at chelt again.
He has got a high cruising speed. He also has set a serious pace in his last two races and jumps like a stag. I expected him to wilt a bit coming up the cheltenham hill in his last outing considering the pace he set and instead he winged the last two and powered up the hill. Best jumper in RSA so far including Grand Crus. Should be placed at the least.
He has got a high cruising speed. He also has set a serious pace in his last two races and jumps like a stag. I expected him to wilt a bit coming up the cheltenham hill in his last outing considering the pace he set and instead he winged the last two and powered up the hill. Best jumper in RSA so far including Grand Crus. Should be placed at the least.
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will stay on better than anythin at the end... good chance so long as he can keep tabs on the leaders when things start to wind up...
I agree, he looks a real good prospect and a proper staying chasing type. I just wonder if he might end up in the 4 miler which I believe was the plan before his latest run.
Do you think he would have picked up Ace High at Chepstow? Tea for Three beaten farther than Join Together beat him. I am not sure he would?
shockter - hard to say because he fell a long way out when he was just being put in to the race, but he appeared to be going well at the time. He was going well when he fell though. I've got a feeling this horse is a National project, maybe for 2013.
Very impressed with this one, especially when beating Mossley last week. The further he went the better he looked to me, so im not sure that dropping back a furlong on the old course in the RSA would play to his strengths. I could see him being a player in next seasons Gold Cup for sure.
You have to like this horse...
But for me he looks a proper stayer and the RSA run over 3 miles, on the track it is run on, may just catch him out. I'm not sure the value of the form of his last race as Champion Court looked to not stay and does look quite average now, and Mossley I can't really figure out, just yet.. he also looks like to be seen to maximum effect he might just like just a little more juice in the ground...which I doubt he will get come March, just to slow the others down more than anything..
On the plus side he really is going the right way and could end up a proper Grand National horse if the trainer doesn't decide to completely ruin his handicap mark as is his want...he would really appeal, as a horse for next years Hennessy, a race his trainer seems to farm or the Welsh National would be right up his alley... This isn't to say, he can't go well here although I doubt he will get things all his own way and things might just happen a bit quick for him on better ground against stronger opposition...
But if Grand Cruise went the Gold Cup route and things don't quite pan out for some of the others he might not be a bad outsider at around the 14-1 mark but would still have reservations myself...
But for me he looks a proper stayer and the RSA run over 3 miles, on the track it is run on, may just catch him out. I'm not sure the value of the form of his last race as Champion Court looked to not stay and does look quite average now, and Mossley I can't really figure out, just yet.. he also looks like to be seen to maximum effect he might just like just a little more juice in the ground...which I doubt he will get come March, just to slow the others down more than anything..
On the plus side he really is going the right way and could end up a proper Grand National horse if the trainer doesn't decide to completely ruin his handicap mark as is his want...he would really appeal, as a horse for next years Hennessy, a race his trainer seems to farm or the Welsh National would be right up his alley... This isn't to say, he can't go well here although I doubt he will get things all his own way and things might just happen a bit quick for him on better ground against stronger opposition...
But if Grand Cruise went the Gold Cup route and things don't quite pan out for some of the others he might not be a bad outsider at around the 14-1 mark but would still have reservations myself...
Excellent logic Harry - he could well ruin his handicap mark in the RSA if he runs well, so they might want to avoid that unless they think he can win with big handicaps in mind for the future.
His mark is already ruined I would say, rated 157 already, didn't think it would be that high. The handicapper has taken a different view to me.. would of given him a mark of about 153 myself..on the back of that race anyways, which just confirmed his previous run.. But he is improving and it is always difficult to access an improving Novice..
As I said Strontium it is the trainers want and he is greedy, so he will pick up as much prize money as he can.
I don't blame him either, as he has an improving novice and there is good prize money to be had..but when you are a plotter, like me, it doesn't help..although we can analise his mark at the end of the season and see if there is anything for him..
I'd say he will probably go the RSA route although he already has Sonofvic as well, so tread carefully.. Unless I am mistaken I'd say Sonofvic is Nicholls best Novice as well, could be wrong, and often am. Trying to second guess these trainers is not easy, hard work in fact..
If the handicapper is right though, he would be good enough to get in the money of an average running of an RSA..just the speed worries me..
As I said Strontium it is the trainers want and he is greedy, so he will pick up as much prize money as he can.
I don't blame him either, as he has an improving novice and there is good prize money to be had..but when you are a plotter, like me, it doesn't help..although we can analise his mark at the end of the season and see if there is anything for him..
I'd say he will probably go the RSA route although he already has Sonofvic as well, so tread carefully.. Unless I am mistaken I'd say Sonofvic is Nicholls best Novice as well, could be wrong, and often am. Trying to second guess these trainers is not easy, hard work in fact..
If the handicapper is right though, he would be good enough to get in the money of an average running of an RSA..just the speed worries me..
This year looks a high quality RSA in prospect, Sonofvics the one for me from Nicholls Yard
157? Weapons Amnesty was only rated 152 after he won the RSA....!
They did the same thing with Aiteen Thirty Three.. he was rated 159 before the RSA!!
I think you can discount the run at chepstow I backed him that day and I don't think he would have won if he stood up. He is a big backward sort of horse that was going to improve leaps and bounds for his first run and keep progressing throughout the year.
I haven't seen much of sonofvic but his last run behind Grands Crus reads like this: "tracked leading pair, not fluent 8th (water), not fluent 11th and next, not fluent and lost place 14th, rallied to 2nd next, not fluent 2 out, ridden between last 2, no extra and held final 150 yards" which was at cheltenham.
I wouldn't be rushing out to support him on that account particurarly as the name of the game is jumping. On that point Grand Crus run at cheltenham on his chasing debut put big doubts in my mind whether he can win this he nearly took one of the fences with him on that occasion lost all his momentum managed to still win but if he does that in the RSA he is history. Remember Long Run in the RSA sore point for me cause I backed him went through one or two fences and that was him good night and good luck jumping really is key.
JT reminds me a bit of two horses that if true would be a lethal combination of cruising speed, stamina, jumping and a turn of foot you guys may
laugh but Denman: Cruising Speed, Stamina and Weapons Amnesty: Turn of foot, jumping.
Mossley came second in the albert novices last year 2l off bobs worth and beat Join Together over hurdles. Join Together made him look very average at Cheltenham last time even up the run-in he couldn't stay near him. Nicholls did have him down as a 4 miler but he changed his mind after his last run he has found an extra gear and a turn of foot.
If he was to win the race the way to do it would be jump round in mid division until the second circuit then take it up from there set a high cruising speed that will put a lot of horses jumping under pressure because this fella jumps brilliant at full tilt keep pouring on the pace wing the last two and use that turn of foot up the hill. It will take some horse to catch him.
I haven't seen much of sonofvic but his last run behind Grands Crus reads like this: "tracked leading pair, not fluent 8th (water), not fluent 11th and next, not fluent and lost place 14th, rallied to 2nd next, not fluent 2 out, ridden between last 2, no extra and held final 150 yards" which was at cheltenham.
I wouldn't be rushing out to support him on that account particurarly as the name of the game is jumping. On that point Grand Crus run at cheltenham on his chasing debut put big doubts in my mind whether he can win this he nearly took one of the fences with him on that occasion lost all his momentum managed to still win but if he does that in the RSA he is history. Remember Long Run in the RSA sore point for me cause I backed him went through one or two fences and that was him good night and good luck jumping really is key.
JT reminds me a bit of two horses that if true would be a lethal combination of cruising speed, stamina, jumping and a turn of foot you guys may
laugh but Denman: Cruising Speed, Stamina and Weapons Amnesty: Turn of foot, jumping.
Mossley came second in the albert novices last year 2l off bobs worth and beat Join Together over hurdles. Join Together made him look very average at Cheltenham last time even up the run-in he couldn't stay near him. Nicholls did have him down as a 4 miler but he changed his mind after his last run he has found an extra gear and a turn of foot.
If he was to win the race the way to do it would be jump round in mid division until the second circuit then take it up from there set a high cruising speed that will put a lot of horses jumping under pressure because this fella jumps brilliant at full tilt keep pouring on the pace wing the last two and use that turn of foot up the hill. It will take some horse to catch him.
You make a good case seathestars...
Just one thing, I wasn't tipping Sonofvic as inexperience I think will be his undoing, as you eluded to, just making the point that I think he maybe the better horse over time...we will see...
My point was really that he won't have it easy on the lead in the RSA...I can see how you have read the form though and you make a good case...just think he will be a better horse when he gets the soft ground he desires and they may go to quick for him in a good ground RSA...we will see though and you make a very good case for the horse, we will see...
Just one thing, I wasn't tipping Sonofvic as inexperience I think will be his undoing, as you eluded to, just making the point that I think he maybe the better horse over time...we will see...
My point was really that he won't have it easy on the lead in the RSA...I can see how you have read the form though and you make a good case...just think he will be a better horse when he gets the soft ground he desires and they may go to quick for him in a good ground RSA...we will see though and you make a very good case for the horse, we will see...
1833 and Join Together rated higher than Weapons Amnesty was afer his RSA win!!
no wonder i dont take much notice of ratings.
no wonder i dont take much notice of ratings.
Seathestars... Sonofvic's run behind Grand Crus was at Newbury not Cheltenham. IMO was an amazing run. First time out for season, chase debut, with 2nd jockey on (Ruby will bring out 10% more minimum, as will him coming on for the run and improving for each chase start) against Grand Crus who had already had the run and is rated a red hot favourite for the RSA having run Big Bucks close over hurdles. Wouldnt be too quick to right Sonofvic off as a serious horse. I think Silviniaco Conti is Nicholls best staying novice chaser tbh, but Join Together and Sonofvic both look very promising
Seathestars... Sonofvic's run behind Grand Crus was at Newbury not Cheltenham. IMO was an amazing run. First time out for season, chase debut, with 2nd jockey on (Ruby will bring out 10% more minimum, as will him coming on for the run and improving for each chase start) against Grand Crus who had already had the run and is rated a red hot favourite for the RSA having run Big Bucks close over hurdles. Wouldnt be too quick to right Sonofvic off as a serious horse. I think Silviniaco Conti is Nicholls best staying novice chaser tbh, but Join Together and Sonofvic both look very promising
if sonofvic improves by upwards of 10% hed hack up in the rsa would he not?
Just had a look at sonofvic race against Grands Crus. Your delusional if your think he can turn the tables on him in the RSA or even win it!!
With a year's maturity you can see Grands Crus is a bit older and wiser, he was definitely saving a bit for himself and idled in front. On top of that he was
giving Sonofvic 7lbs!!! come on guys seriously you have to come up with something better than this. I know he will improve his jumping before the RSA but strikes me as one that may put in a bad jump as the race heats up and there goes his chances . . . . .
All joking aside he does look like he has an engine but his jumping is to iffy for the RSA.
With a year's maturity you can see Grands Crus is a bit older and wiser, he was definitely saving a bit for himself and idled in front. On top of that he was
giving Sonofvic 7lbs!!! come on guys seriously you have to come up with something better than this. I know he will improve his jumping before the RSA but strikes me as one that may put in a bad jump as the race heats up and there goes his chances . . . . .
All joking aside he does look like he has an engine but his jumping is to iffy for the RSA.
Wow, you're harsh writing off a horse on the basis of its first chase. I think it's likley to improve 15-20 lb over the course of the season simply through experience. And GC gave it 7 lb, but GC is a far more experienced horse (and more experienced chaser) - which must be worth at least 7 lb.
Trainer Paul Nicholls will send Sonofvic back hurdling after he disappointed over fences at Cheltenham on New Year's Day.
The Old Vic gelding was sent off favourite for the Grade 2 Dipper Chase but never really jumped with any fluency before a bad error four out ended any chance he had of victory.
The Old Vic gelding was sent off favourite for the Grade 2 Dipper Chase but never really jumped with any fluency before a bad error four out ended any chance he had of victory.
Sonofvic is a real talent and to get so close to a machine like Grands Crus was an outstanding effort first time out. If Nicholls sends him back hurdling I guess he's saying he doesn't think he's got enough time to get him ready for The RSA Chase so will wait another year and probably let Join Together have a crack this year. I've got no doubt which horse has most potential and could see him being next year's RSA horse.
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