big bucks -- unbeaten this jumps season 3/1

Yes. Started a thread about this on Antepost. The terms of the bet are also very generous. He need only run once for the bet to stand. So no problem if he picks up an injury at some point.

huuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggeeeee price

yes a big price alright!

perhaps hills fancy another ice age like last year and think he might rock up in one of those bumpers for jumpers races

just done it..an intresting bet with lots of upsides..whats gonna beat him ?maybe the need of a run? but once he wins his first its hard to see..wpm will have a few but hes only turning 9 in jan so he will harly regress...im on anyway!!

ridiculous price with the terms attached, all the dangers gone over the big obstacles. wish id seen it!

I also think it's a good bet.

However, as a talking point, Big Buck's was sired by Cadoudal. His progeny do not age well. Indeed, I don't think any of them have won a major race after the age of 8. Big Buck's (now aged 8) is going to regress at some point - and it might be sooner than many people think.

[Alternatively of course he might have so much in hand over the opposition he can serioulsy regress and still keeping cleaning them up!]

8 would be early to regress

didnt look like it to me today!

OK, I agree, but what I said about Cadoudal's is true I think - BB will be a pioneer.

OK. While I'm scraping the bottom of a barrel, I thought he jumped a little left at a few of his hurdles today. He's never run right handed has he? Might he be a little less good at Ascot if the Long walk is actually run there this season? (Even Denman and Dessie were far worse one way round than the other....)

win a 4th world hurdle then win gold cup legendary status

Im going to do it! His age is the risk. 3/1 is almost a a point and a half early christmas present/bonus from the layers!!!

Gone after today?

you cant join the party after he bolts up first time lad

you enjoying the season strontium hotting up nicely

only thing that can save the layers is if something that can come out of the woodwork...like grands crus tried to do......the layers will be praying that something like dynaste could save them.....i wouldn't hold my breath.......it must be a nightmare running in behind BB because at some stage there always looks like there is a chance to beat him....he doesn't blow the opposition away, it looks like he travels through the race holding them at arms length.

3/1 was a ruddy generous price rick of the year imo

Very much. Cracking day at Newbury today (and yesterday) - I think I saw the winners of the RSA and maybe the Supreme. Sandown next weekend, Chelts the weekend after...

By the way, it was a nice touch of BB's groom to take him around the parade ring after they called horses away. Gave the crowd a proper cchance to applaud him. I believe she did the same with Kauto last week. I wish they'd do that more often.

Todays race didn't really tell us much except the horse is in good health. Most of last years good hurdles have already gone over fences and I think Thousand Stars, Oscar Whisky (Although personally not convinced he will stay)and maybe Dynaste are only plausible challengers.

^
the layers will be praying that HF turns up in the champion because if he doesn't...thousand stars and oscar whiskey may well turn up there.

Thousand Stars could well run over 2 m, especially if Hurricane Fly doesn't recover. Amazed if Dynaste is good enough. He won that fixed brush handicap off 140ish didn't he? I know Grand Crus rocketed through the ranks last season, but I'd be surprised if lightning struck twice (and GC wasn't good enough in the end).

All that said, it's a division where 2nd place is very much up for grabs (as today's race suggested again).

Would be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts when comparing Thousand Stars to Big Bucks as he's ridden them both over 3 miles. Mullins says French Champion hurdle is the long term aim this season for Thousand Stars. Sounds like he doesn't think he is good enough for either of the Cheltenham races.

Would be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts when comparing Thousand Stars to Big Bucks as he's ridden them both over 3 miles. Mullins says French Champion hurdle is the long term aim this season for Thousand Stars. Sounds like he doesn't think he is good enough for either of the Cheltenham races.

Would be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts when comparing Thousand Stars to Big Bucks as he's ridden them both over 3 miles. Mullins says French Champion hurdle is the long term aim this season for Thousand Stars. Sounds like he doesn't think he is good enough for either of the Cheltenham races.

Would be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts when comparing Thousand Stars to Big Bucks as he's ridden them both over 3 miles. Mullins says French Champion hurdle is the long term aim this season for Thousand Stars. Sounds like he doesn't think he is good enough for either of the Cheltenham races.

Would be interesting to hear Ruby's thoughts when comparing Thousand Stars to Big Bucks as he's ridden them both over 3 miles. Mullins says French Champion hurdle is the long term aim this season for Thousand Stars. Sounds like he doesn't think he is good enough for either of the Cheltenham races.

very, very interesting apparently

French CH is worth £150k to the winner. Nice pot.

Haha well would be very very interesting. Damn betfair forum and my impatient button pressing.

Yeah I looked at the prize money and it's on a par with World hurdle money but below champion hurdle.

Plus I guess it's about targetting the horse best - Mullins must believe that Big Buck's is more or less unbeatable and he must have a great insight about Hurricane Fly v Thousand Stars - so the French CH is a sensible target (rather then TS not being good enough for Cheltenham per se).

Yeah I agree with that. Just trying to work out which Cheltenham race he will be targeted at. Would hate to waste my money on a non runner but can't see him being bigger than 4/1 on the day if he turns up.

Yeah I agree with that. Just trying to work out which Cheltenham race he will be targeted at. Would hate to waste my money on a non runner but can't see him being bigger than 4/1 on the day if he turns up.

oscar

id say if hf runs in ch 1000 stars will run world hurdle..they got nothing to lose sure..

i would agree

TS more than likely going french CH again!! willie said so himself but nothing ste in stone obviously!

French Champion hurdle is in June. I'm sure he'll race in the festival too as he has the done the previous 2 years.

Hi chaps.

I take it the 3-1 has all gone by now???

If so do you know what price he is now to remain unbeaten & where to find this on the w/hills website???

Many Thanks.

hills should be paying out now me thinks ,, 3/1 and straight to chelters now

Can't believe I missed this..... was 3/1 over 6 lengths today as well which was hard to fancy given his toying with opposition.... but today's trees made that win too.

I really cannot see a threat emerging before March, 66.67% interest on a not very risky 3 month investment with the tragic sign NRNB still lokks great value.

use your imigination,you might find a threat or even 2.

I know you have an erection for Oscar Whisky Bud, but on what basis who knows. Henderson's poppycock is merely defiance, is he a trainer we can trust? lol

On the basis that he has proven class at 2m and 2 and a halfm at Championship level.So if he stays 3m hes a threat as is Thousand Stars for the same reason.
Dont take a genius to work that out imo.

I bet Bucksy is worried sick that one of these might make him actually have to work. You are looking for a 'told you so' angle as I have noticed you try in the past.

You should try embracing the great champion that is Bucksy who will pi$$ it again.

I know you have an erection for Oscar Whisky Bud

So Bud is a woman, that explains it. There is no real place for women in the sport of Kings imo.

^ im not sure theword erection implies female

I am guessing Howdi's amusement at my use of the word suggests Bud either has erectile dysfunction or is a woman. Perhaps I am wrong.

no comment

Classic stuff lads

Actually i do get quiet turned on watching him run,sexy horse i think.

BTW,
Nowt to do with a told you so angle mate.
I just happen to think if he stays 3m he has the class to give BB a race,maybe beat him.dont see a problem with  that myself.
BB could well make me look a tad foolish come March,dont see a problem with that either.
Thats the game we are in.
If i think a horse has a chance in a race i aint gonna not back it cos hes up against a great champion.

budd incase you didnt know. oscar is running at cheltenham on new years day.

OK Bud, do you not have an angle in a race where the opponent isn't on a bloodless 15 timer.....?

Up to you tho of course, I would wish you luck but it would cost me too much will 2nd do you haha

oh i know he has a tough task BTW,under no illusions about that,but ive never been frightened of having a go at a shortie,even one as good as Big Bucks.
Ive been putting a bit on each month since Easter,when the stable told me they were going to take on Big Bucks with him.

Cheers Howdi,
did not know that,2 and half m that race i believe?

must be took from racing post website today - owners tals of clash with bucks

Cheers Howdi,just found it:

"One day someone is going to beat Big Buck's," Walters said on Sunday. "I'm not saying it will be us but I'd love to give it a go."

Big Buck's remains a best-priced 4-6 with a run with the sponsors to claim an unprecedented fourth success in the World Hurdle in March. Oscar Whisky, who came back to winning form in the Grade 2 Relkeel Hurdle at Cheltenham nine days ago, is priced by many bookmakers as the chief threat to Big Buck's - who heads directly to the festival.

Walters said his heart is telling him to take on the supposed good thing with his six-year-old. He described Oscar Whisky as "definitely a three-miler" and added: "Big Buck's was awesome on Saturday, but he has everyone running scared and I'd love to
see a good horse take him on.

"At the moment our horse is the only real challenger to him. Oscar is underrated and a very good horse. He jumps, has speed and he's going novice chasing next season, so if we don't take on Big Buck's this time we never will."

Walters, who is looking forward to seeing his horse run at Cheltenham on New Year's Day and then in the William Hill Welsh Champion Hurdle at his own track Ffos Las, added: "It's a really hard call because Big Buck's is so good and the way Oscar was running at Ascot last month before he fell - giving 8lb to Overturn - suggests he could still be competitive over two miles.

"We'll see what happens with him on New Year's Day and then at Ffos Las. If he still has the speed for two miles then we could always go for the Champion Hurdle, but in my heart of hearts I'd love to take Big Buck's on. It's a big decision and one we won't be taking lightly."

I particularly like the definite 3 miler quote,although i see they still aint totally ruled out the CH!!

pleasure good read.

ok,how many on this bet are hoping OW goes for the CH??

Hope OW takes on Big Bucks - will make Thursdays racing so much more interesting.

On decent ground he could beat him as well imo.

Very interesting uncle,and yes he could beat him,and decent ground would certainly help.

This thread will be very interesting if/when its announced that OW definitely goes for it.

Announced now I believe.

Impressive today but beat nothing. What does that tell you?

Thats great news.
Agree,nowt really learned yesterday,would have had it been 3m!!
Still,by saying they will go 3m at chelt,that tells me they are sure he stays.
I know the jockey is.

I am looking forward to this more than anything,just hope he and BB turn up fine on the day.

Obviously he still hasn't proven his stamina for 3m at Championship pace, and the chances are he will run a similar race to Grand Cru's last year - nothing between them on the long run between the last 2 hurdles and then when push comes to shove Big Bucks will find more up the hill.

But at 8/1 this morning I had to go in again as assuming everything goes ok between now and Cheltenham then he surely can't be bigger than 4/1 on the day and maybe closer to 5/2 imo, and could trade closer to evens in running.

Hes classier than Grand Crus though,so i expect him to be travelling better.Its simply a case of whether he can show a turn of foot at the end of a 3m race.

I think Oscar Whisky in the "w/o Big Bucks" market is the bet I'll be doing - bound to be a very short price though, especially if Thousand Stars and VLV don't turn up.

This isn't a flat race over eg 7f. There will be no 'turn of foot'.

Any pretender has to outstay Big Bucks, nothing has come close yet.

Hes a speed horse over lesser distance,if he stays 3m he could have a turn of foot at the end,no question about that.
Not sure what you are on about to be honest.No disrespect intended but a horse can have a turn of foot at 3m,but of course that would mean him staying well enough,thats the big question.

Well - I have been all over these two horses for the best part of two seasons and love them both. Think they are both super classy, and wouldn't suggest one had more class than the other. They both do everything so easily and are adaptable to different conditions and distances. A match race over two and a half would be very exciting! 10/11 the pair for me!

Boring opinion, but don't think it matters who takes on Big Buck's. As someone else said I think it will be a repeat of last year. Oscar will travel up beautifully but Buck's will hear him coming and draw the sting out of him.

Am also far from certain that Oscar wants to go three miles. His class would get him home against most, but Big Buck's is a monster in every sense and you will have to have huge reserves of stamina to beat him. Oscar looks ideally suited to two and a half but I'd be running him in the Champion without a doubt if Hurricane Fly missed it.

^ Sorry - when I talk about these two horses in the first paragraph I am talking about Oscar and Grands Crus, not Big Buck's!

Since horses are almost always slowing down towards the end of races 'turn of foot' is a phrase I do not like. This suggests acceleration when what is occuring is that the horse that is pulling clear is slowing down less dramatically. So I favour 'staying on', particularly over 3 miles.

My view is that if OW was from a small stable with no other Champion Hurdle hopes he would certainly go for that race again, having placed as a 6 year old. Perhaps Henderson has convinced the owner he can lower the mighty BB colours, who knows? I am sure he wouldn't mind putting one over his chief rival trainer.

If the horse could talk I believe he would say neigh to the World Hurdle.

Of course my reference to VLV's 'turn of foot' was code for 'slowing down less dramatically'

Quote from Barry Geraghty:
He's got to stay, if he stays three miles I genuinely think he'll be a threat (to Big Buck's) because he'd be a three miler with a right turn of foot.

i would think he would know if a horse can possess a turn of foot at the end of a 3m race.

As for the CHurdle,i am sure OW would rather run in the race,its a mile shorter!!
But ive watched this horse real close and he is as game as yer like,he will give everything for his rider.
If he aint good enough at the distance,so be it,but hes adding some spice to the race,and getting people talking,and thats great for us and the sport.
I have a feeling hes also getting some BBucks fans and backers a tad concerned,and so they should be.
As far as i can remember BB has not faced a horse with this amount of proven top class hurdle form as yet.

concerned is not the word youre looking for budd, excited is. big bucks price will be better than it should be

yeh,thats a fair point Reve.I could do with having BB on my side,so the bigger the price the better!!
Even money or better would be great!!

evens is unlikely. if hes evens il be having my balls on

And me!

I think he means that he has a turn of foot at the point they quicken. Many stayers wont ever have this in the race, they just grind it out. That would be OW's only (slim) chance as I see it. Quicken away, and just hold on.

I dont think there are any horses that would use a 'turn of foot' at the end of the World Hurdle!

In a word, "Anzum", CCM!! Now that was a real turn of foot, you wouldn't back it with stolen at the last, even now!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q40oqR8CTJ8

Only clip I could find, you have to wait a while for it, but '99 was a vintage year, so it's well worth sitting thru and reminding yourself of some great races.

The 'turn of foot' is just a phrase we all use, jockeys,trainers, commentators when analysis shows horses slow down. Enough of this irrelevance (started by me )

I too think OW could be the biggest rival Bucksy has faced. He will need to be a new breed of machine to KO the champ on his first try at 3m tho. Maybe he is, I will be willing to risk an inordinate sum that he isn't should BB drift to a sweet price eg last year's 10/11. I loved that.