Might this be a controversial opinion?

It beat everything it ran against which is all that counts.

I loved the above two horses but think the Buckster would have beaten them both.

I'm not denying he's a good horse.

But all this talk of being the greatest staying hurdler of all time?

Not for me.

Lough Derg, Duc de regnierre, Karabak, an injured Mighty Man, Souffler etc

Hardly a who's who of staying hurdlers is it?

Inglis Drever is one of my favs. but there is no questioning because of his consistency that Big Bucks is the Greatest of all time. He has beaten many great horses and will continue to do so. He's a monster. He would not win a champion hurdle though as some fools will tell you.

I think a problem is nothing in behind ever get's chance to prove how good they are because they bump into Big Bucks in every Grade One race! I think the fact that connections of Grands Crus are tempted to go chasing after trying to beat him tells how good he is! Unbeatable is a word that should not be used in racing, but for me he's as close as they come!

Those interested have a look at Sea The Stars form and how that's worked out...!!

I think he would have been 3rd/4th in this year champion.

Drever will be more loved, Bucks is the better horse.

Mighty Man is still my fav staying hurdler

The other thing, unfairly Big Bucks will always be seen by many as a failed chaser! Odd as that sounds!!

its not controversial in my eyes,its a fair point to discuss imo

Perfectly valid point (similar to Best Mate's 3 Gold Cup wins - what did he beat?) - but imo he is the best 3 mile hurdler in my lifetime. He also seems to travel and jump better this season. Inglis Drever wouldn't catch him after hitting a flat spot and Baracouda wouldn't get past him.

I do not think the wonderful Inglis (RIP) would touch BB. BB is a 10lb better horse at least. Inglis was super, but he was not a great, great stayer IMO. Also, BB has won everywhere, on all types on going. Inglis hated Aintree and whilst that place should not suit BB, he has sluiced up there twice. Last weeks race was not run to suit BB by any stretch, but he still won easily. BB has barely come off the bit to win his last 3 stayers. His best effort was his first, against the mighty Punchestowns, but since then he's not needed to come out of 3rd gear. He was only shook up on Thurs because it developed into a sprint, which does not suit him. He is a megastar IMO. BB is the best horse in training and has been since his 1st stayers.

To say he might have struggled with ID and Baracouder isnt relevent,I wont be worrying about that when I back him next year.He's the best for now what more do you want?

I think BB is a machine, not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of him.
The fact Ruby dropped his whip and the horse still won going away tells me that the horse knows when he's in a race and what he has to do to win it

Loved Baracouda and Inglis, but the Bucks the ultimo.

Great topic! I think this boils down more to how you rate three mile hurdling than how you rate Big Bucks. For those of us old enough to remember the three day festival and the quiet corner of the programme occupied by the stayers' hurdle surely this is a bit of a sham! The decision to expand the festival was not taken to enhance championship racing but simply to extort more money from the racing public and the decision to base Thursday's action around the stayers' hurdle was quite arbitrary and surely the choice of a firm of bookmakers! The stayers hurdle is not and never can be on a par with the three races that highlight the other three days' racing. Anyone buying a young horse surely prays they have an animal good enough to be a champion hurdler or a top notch chaser. Big Bucks, and for that matter Baracouda and Inglis Drever were great 'champions' in a division with a glaring lack of quality and one which I don't rate. I know it's all rather subjective but I'd rather own the winner of one Gold Cup than the winner of five stayers' hurdles. Big Bucks has won a lesser race three times, just as Quevega has! And now I suppose I should sit back and wait to be slaughtered!!!!

Bucksy's tendency to only do enough masks his true ability. Grands Crus a fair challenger this year, and he mullered him. after jumping the last he put the race to bed in a matter of strides.

He's a brilliant horse to watch

The better the opposition, the better he is

i wont slaughter you todds,i agree with you.
Big Bucks great 3m hurdler,but to be an all time racing great he has to excel where the best horses are,and that aint 3m hurdling.

I agree with FFT. Definitely the best staying hurdler of my lifetime, but because he does the minimum, I can see why some think he isnt as good as he actually is.

He had lots in hand this year... had he scooted clear by 10l, everyone would be waxing lyrical. That just isnt his way.

I'll be controversial too, and yes I backed Grands Cru.

Scu should have comitted him far sooner and tried to run the finish out of BB, to me he was overconfident and thought he could do him for speed.

I thought the opposite tbh bb.

As a BB backer, I was a bit concerned during the race, as I thought the only way he would get beaten is the way the race went ie. slow pace and GC having a better turn of foot. If they had gone a real pace, I think that would have favoured BB even more.

CCM, I thought Ruby was perfectly placed with the slow pace, Scu was bang last most of the way and made up loads of ground from the top of the hill. I'd like to have seen him kick on from there and try to take the sting out of BB.

Pocket talking but beforehand my pals who backed GC were convinced thats what he'd do.

I'm not taking anything away from BB, just think Ruby completely outrode Scu.

Only chance GC would have had imo is if Scu had taken a pull before the last and hoped to charge up the hill without giving the chance for Big Buck's to quicken.

When they were upsides going over the last, there was only ever one winner

Agree he was well back, I thought he would sit closer to BB during the race... but as FFT says, still think his only hope was to inject pace in the race late on. I just dont see how he could outstay BB... the tougher the race became, the further BB would have won imo.

I guess we'll never know, I'm just surprised Scu didn't commit at least 4f out. Well done BB though, tremendous horse

He slaughtered Diamond Harry and I really rate Diamond Harry, Diamond Harry beat Burton Port who came second to Weapons Amnesty, so theres a bit of a line for ye outside of the staying hurdlers he beat. Look what he routinely does to Tidal Bay who got close to IC, he is unquestionably top class

I personally think he's the highest class horse in training - would be fascinating if they tried fences again.

BB breaks his opponents hearts. He lets them think they are within a chance of winning, duping them, and delivering a false sense of security, but then he kicks on and powers away. They cant handle. It is demoralising and they dont come back from his.

BB is the best horse in training.

sint, he's a horse for phucks sake, not Cassius Clay

exactly,BB, they are more sensitive than us.

GC had every chance, travelled like a dream again, wasnt good enough and BB beat him hands and heels (dropped whip), Best horse won going away!

fwiw the last 10 winners RPR's appear in today's weekender

2011 BB 166
2010 BB 174
2009 BB 176
2008 ID 174
2007 ID 169
2006 MWDS 166
2005 ID 167
2004 IG 176
2003 Bara 176
2002 Bara 171

if the owner had any ambiton he would try and win the gold cup mickey mouse race the world hurdle

Nicholls himself said he wins because he stays, so any notion that the race was run to suit Bucksy is wide of the mark. The race tempo I reckon gave GC the best chance he was ever going to have. In a way I would love to see him over fences again but a 4th World Hurdle would suit me.

Agree with all the above, borntowin

This "hoary old chestnut" about Big Bucks only beating the same horses is wearing a bit thin now as is the idea he has never put up in a top rating. He has probably beaten as many different horses as Inglis Drever by now and according to the OR and the RPR he putting up performances at least as good as ID.

Big Bucks, Inglis Drever and Baracouda are the best two stayers hurdlers I have ever seen and I would have BB at the top of the tree as he is a most consistent horse and a superb jumper of hurdles and will be at the top of his game for at least one more season.  Grands Crus with another year on his back might make a race of it next year.

another easy victory

At aintree inglis drever wouldnt beat me so theres no arguement big bucks would beat him.

At cheltenham, now that would be a race because inglis drever never wasted an ounce of energy over the trip and would definately give big bucks the race of his life up that hill. would have been great to see. I'll always love drever the most but its all opinions i suppose. Worth adding drever would have won 4 world hurdles had he not been injured for a season. RIP u staying machine.

would love to see him line up at ascot

The best Stayers Hurdle from a form perspective of the last ten years was around 9 years ago when Baracouda beat Iris' Gift and Limestone Lad in an absolutely wonderful race. The second had won every race it contested prior to the Stayers and Limestone Lad beat everything that could be thrown at it in Ireland out of sight.

Some top class stayers that day were beaten 50 lengths +

Agree

Amazing isn't it. Big Buck's has beaten nothing but had he not be around Grand Crus would be considered a true champion.

When you consider that Kauto Star was regarded by many as the best chaser since the great Arkle and Paul Nichols said Big Bucks is the best horse he has ever trained then that sorta makes me think my eye's are not deceiving me.

Big Buck's would have most likely beaten any of those who came before him least of all Inglis Drever who was no where near the best of them.  IMO

Nicholls makes some interesting comments about BB, especially the way he works on the gallops. He says you can work BB with Denman or Kauto and he'll beat them by a head. And you can work him with the worst hurdler in the yard and he'll beat him by a head. He races like that too and I really don't think we know what he's truly capable of.

PS I would love to see BB int he Ascot Gold Cup!

rondetto to say inglis drever was no where near the best of them is utter rubbish. he dominated the division for 4 seasons.