Is kauto star to old for gold cup?

that old nonsense of a french bred losing its form earlier than any other horse doesnt wash with me at all,its absolute bullsh1t!

stick with him kautoisastar,for me he has this race won,you will see him at his best one last time before age catches up with him next season,i would go as far as saying that he will win this quite easily

was going easily the best first 8 fences in 2010 Gold Cup.... won easily at Down Royal.... yard not right in delayed King George.

Anyone who's willing to lay at 6/1+ and thinks this horse is over the hill in for a bumpy ride imo

i wouldnt back him because i think he has a mountain to climb to get on terms with the ikes of ic and denners but all the same i wouldnt lay, hes proven twice hes capable.

Imperial commander is 10years old and he hasn won half of what either kauto has won when he was 10 or what denman won when he was 10 so i dont rate him in the same league,denman is also 11so he could be over the hill to,long run would be the main treat in my reckoning

I don't want to talk dwon the Gold Cup but IMO they were great horses, not are.
Either Kauto or Denman may still win it but if they do it'll be because the race, I think, is weaker than previous renewals.
I've said for months that I can see a rag winning it, haven't changed my view

time for the new brigade imo. love kauto but he is trying to win back the gold cup for a 2nd time when no horse has done this once. we need to be realistic he is just a horse not a machine. he seems to have lost the ability to travel like the rath of god and he cant win Grade 1s forever no horse can. step up pandorama and long run

I think Dessie was 2 months short of his 11th Birthday when he won.I'm talking true physical age/birthdate as opposed to the annual end of year birthday.Denman and Kauto will both be virtually JUST 11 at the time of Chelters.So both at the "top end" of the ability/age scale before decline creeps in (which tends to genuinely kick regardless by the age of 12)

I was at Kempton and initially I thought, 'that's it for KS - simply not the same horse.'

However, upon reflection I think he has a great chance at the prices. Nicholls was struggling for winners, AP simply does not ride KS v well & the horse doesn't seem to settle (as great a jockey as he is), he smashed teh 2nd ;ast when reall starting to get a 2nd wind (watch the replay as he was flying again to that fence) and when all said & done still came 3rd in a G1.

With Ruby onbaord, Nicholls amongst the winners and ground no worse than G/S he has a good squeak with so many question marks over the leading protaganists. Despite refutals it seems to me IC prep has not been ideal, Long Run will strugle for distance & doesn't seem to like Chelters, Denman has question marks over his well being & the rest don't appear good enough on paper.

Is KS on the downgrade? In all probability yes. But I don't think he would need to be at his vinatge best to win this. If he settles & jumps well early then we could witness the biggest roar up that hill for many a year.

Feck it, I am going to top up on him again!!!

i honestly think kauto needs a genuine sound surface to be seen at his devestating best,i just dont think he handles soft ground as well as others,when that downpour came an hour before the GC last year i feared the worse for kauto and in the end i was rite,there wont be a dry eye in the house if the old warrior comes storming up that hill in beating his old pal denman in a bobber

I don't think IC will get it all his own way this year. Sam Thomas is back on Denman and he will be a fresh horse I think he will take it up with over a circuit to run and drag the sh@t out of them. AP was too cautious last year because of Newbury and they were all in a heap when KS fell, they should have been strung out like washing. Sam gets on with him well and they will take some pegging back. I'm still not convinced IC, KS or LR stay this trip when they go a proper gallop.

After recovering from the disappointment in the King George, I for one was quite pleased when PN said Kauto had bled from the nose.

The stress of running while carry some sort of bug is most likely what caused the nose bleed and nothing to do with age.


I think you have to look beyond the King George and ask yourself was his performance at Down Royal that much different than his performance at Haydock a year earlier.

He came under pressure in both races and while Imperial Commander is a better horse than Sizing Europe the 4 lengths he won by would suggest he may still be as good as ever.


A bigger question is, how much did that mistake at the 8th fence in last years Gold Cup actually take out of him.?

He was almost asleep and absolutely cruising beforehand and Ruby had all the time in the world to let him recover but the second the pace increased Ruby was very ill at ease.

For me either we saw the first signs of the great horse deteriorating or that mistake really knocked the stuffing out of him.

I certainly don't believe this is an out of the ordinary Gold Cup which makes Kauto a live danger even if he isn't as good as he was.

My advise is back your fancy and if it's not Kauto Star at around 7/1 I'd advise at least a saver on him. Unless of course you fancy kicking yourself on the backside after he wins

Good thread.

As we have been spoiled by the gold cups of the last few years with very  horses at their peak, i think it makes this years renewal even more fascinating because of the old vs new angle.  it may not be the greatest in terms of ratings, but it may go down as one of the all time classics.

I think i more excited about this race than any other this year - could be a real lump in the throat job. Lets hope so.

agree that he may not have been spot on last three races, but we know what happened in the race before that in his 4th King george as the racing post puts so beautifully...

'Jumped superbly, settled midfield, steady progress 9th, went 2nd 12th and soon clear of rest, led on long run to 3 out, swept clear, magnificent'


Lets just hope the old fellas all run their race - cant wait, wil be a cracker

Who took the 12s? :)

This is horrible, truly gutting.

Coming round to the idea that on-song or not kauto might not have enough FORM to beat either denman or imperial commander whether he stands up or not.

I've always thought...no, KNOWN, that his form was rock solid but its possibly all based on horses that won't force a pace (with the exception of Nacarat and Neptunes who were never Gold cup winner class anyway)

He was unlucky to make a huge mistake in last years gold cup at the exact moment that pace was injected into the race. I really dont know what it takes out of a horse to batter a fence like that but he really was struggling to keep up afterwards for a good 3/4 lap. Lets be realistic here, we're not talking about struggling to travel well behind pace over 3 and 1/4 mile - this was struggling to KEEP UP with an injection of pace WITHIN the first 2 MILES. To state the obvious, the horse DIDNT KNOW WHAT TRIP HE WAS RUNNING THAT DAY but STILL appeared to be struggling with the pace for the first 2 MILES.

I'm now sitting here wondering when the last time kauto succesfully dealt with a serious injection of pace at all in a race with the exception of the 09 king george.

And now I'm even going back through his entire career (yes, even the 2 mile tingle creaks all those years ago) wondering whether there was ever  a decent enough horse (anywhere near the class of denman or IC) that tested kautos ability to live with a forced pace and still deliver at the business end.

I'm not trying to play down what kauto has acheived as his record is amazing but i think i'm right in saying that he has never beaten Denman or Imperial Commander in a race with a high tempo?

One thing is for sure - if not Denman, someone WILL be forcing a pace at some point in the 2011 gold cup.

So is beating Nacarat around kempton enough form to say kauto could beat denman or IC?

Brooks I took 12's 10's and a little bit @ 9.8 on here, also have an e/w double with hurricane fly. Will decide on the day how much of my stake to lay back. He'll go off 7/2. I posted a thread on here just after news broke about him being sick at kempton saying 12/1 was a steal.

pedrobob i was a bit pisssed when i posted so it may have been ott - but ive always laughed at the 'kauto crumbled under denmans pressure in the 08 GC' statement because he's won over 2 miles and travelled so well in the 09 KG and because he's got a turn of foot at the end of his races - i'm just not laughing so much anymore.
I should watch some of his older races again and this answer is probably full of holes but i think if it was an average 2 mile race then the cards are in kautos favour and he outclasses anything but a strong pace over 2 miles - well the 06 champion chase doesn't look very encouraging does it?

nobody could possibly back LR at the current price at cheltenham where he has put in 3 very below par runs,i feel very confident that he wont be in the 3