Hurricane Fly wins the 2011 Champion Hurdle! He is the real thing! The doubters are silenced! Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi

My point is there's no reason to think the hill or anything else  will be a problem. So until he falters he deserves to be respected. You don't have to back the horse, but don't go knocking him for something he hadn't had the opportunity to try.

My snapping in this regard is because for two years now steeple has been negative about this horse when I think he has earned the right to be respected more.

Hurricane Fly

CV aint got a clue about horses that's why! Don't listen to that muppet.

I dont know how much Steeple has criticised him, so thats not for me to say.

But sometimes you take it as people knocking the horse, when they are really just questioning (or thats how it sounds to me). Its beyond doubt that course form is a big factor, so its a big leap of faith to just dismiss this as not being a worry. there's no reason to think the hill or anything else will be a problem is a bold statement. I personally cant help but feel Cheltenham will never be the course where he will produce his best. He might be talented enough to win a CH in spite of that. I hope so.

I'm not knocking the horse, or disrespecting him, by suggesting that. Just discussing.

Mayweather. Nobody gives a toss what you think about anything. No offence and all that.

Point is a lot of Hurricane Flys detractors are saying that the horse won't handle the course, often throwing in the Montjeu chestnut as hard evidence. It's like they think he's some two year old stepping up to seven furlongs in a maiden at Epsom. He's not, he is a proven Grade 1 performer, a champion hurdler in his native shores and the most likely winner of this years renewal imo.

I agree completely EC the conditions faced in the champion hurdle are  unique and how a horse handles them is open to question until he experiences it. But since only binocular and khyber kim have experienced it then it should be used as an advantage for them rather than a disadvantage to others.

It will be the first time menorah, peddlers, dunguib, oscar, mille chief as well as hurricane fly experience the pace of a champion hurdle. So I take exception when it's used as a stick to knock hurricane fly alone with.

Why not mention his irish champion hurdle win was one of the fastest times posted in the race regardless of ground conditions.

Personally, I would more favour Hurricane Fly is he wasn't the only horse in the race with his profile; he hasn't run at Cheltenham before, he hasn't run in England before, he's relatively lightly raced for his age, in uncompetitive events...there's very little we know about him, other than he's clearly a talented horse!

Pace won't be an issue because all classy horses run well off a strong pace, ground won't be an issues as he's sired from a flat performer, and he clearly stays the trip. The problem is NO ONE, not CVByrne, not anyone else knows if he handles the track, and knows that he'll settle in the atmosphere, and those who think he will are guessing because there is no evidence anywhere to support this.

Menorah, Binocular, Peddlers Cross we all know they handle conditions, and the simple facts are you'd have to tick every box on their profiles that you would Hurricane Fly; the problem is you cannot tick the track, the atmosphere and the hill in Hurricane Fly's profile because we don't know, and in my book horses with a string of ticks in every box are a more attractive proposition than one's with question marks.

how many oscars have won a champion hurdle?how many p2p winners have won a champion,does that rule peddlers cross out


YES

Fair enough steeple.

But can't you cut the horse a break though, he won the irish champion hurdle in an excellent time and was only given one  slap down the shoulder by townend. Not only that but it was his 3rd race in 6 weeks and he'd got a cut in his previous race and was unimpressive in his  work the week of the champion.

So given all of this don't you think that win was pretty good  instead of focusing on the fact he didn't keep putting distance after his  initial burst of speed.

Peddlers and binocular have had less then impressive runs this season too, you don't get on their case.

CV,they have all had runs we could criticise.
End of the day their are reasons why all of them could win and also lose,and i think it fair to say they have all had comments about them,positive and negative,given the amount of coverage this forum has given the race!!

Townend said "I only had to give him a slap after the last; he's a true professional and a proper horse".

While mullins said "He got a cut here the last day and it may be partly responsible for him working only average this week. But this was a proper trial. He came off a decent gallop nicely and went away at the end. So the plan is to give him a little break before building him up for cheltenham"

So factor that against the fact he posted a time at the track faster than any of brave inca, hardy or macs ever did, and they ran on better ground at times too.

It was not in a nikon years anything near good ground. Also I'm talking about the grade one races at leopardstown won in the dark has never won one. Then you  have day of a lifetime on the same card 5 seconds slower. It was a very good trial on the times.

Look the point I'm trying to make is Hurricance Fly wasn't at his best yet managed to come off a strong pace and deliver his burst of speed after the last when only given one slap by Townend. He ran a very good time for an Irish Champion Hurdle and a time that was 6.5 seconds than Day of a Lifetime posted on the same card.

There is also zero chance the ground was good on 23rd Jan in Ireland. There is no and was no good ground in this country for months. You don't get it ever.

No I just back the figures in this case over your eyes which as many people have already mentioned are very likely blinded when it comes to horses like Hurricane Fly.

If that 118 rated chaser By The Hour can run that sort of time in the 2m 3f handicap chase on 'soft ground' then he must have some amount in hand over the handicapper (apart from the fact the 1st and 2nd have both been beaten fair and square since).

I'd give my opinion as well but seeing at the way you've treated other people's opinions before who don't agree with you I didn't really think it was worth it. The disdain you show to some people who don't agree with you is shocking. As you tell us(and have many times before) that you have a masters in stats I'm guessing you're a bit older than me. I'm only 20 but I hope I never treat people the way that you treat people on here sometimes when they don't agree with me.

I wish you all the best for Cheltenham though and hope you have a successful festival.

Im out.

EC

Also I get defensive when I believe people are unfair in their criticism of a horse. If someone is positive about a horse you won't see me having a go at them. But I will most certainly have a go at people who knock horses who don't deserve it or express a negative opinion I think is ridiculous. This forum, in my view, went down the toilet a long ago, it's not a community like it was and like we have elsewhere so I'm not bothered if my defence of some horses comes across as not nice.

like it form man