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3 MAR 2010 STARLUCK warmed up for his Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle bid in 13 days time with an impressive victory on the all-weather at Kempton on Wednesday evening.
The progressive hurdler, who won at Dundalk early in his career, returned the well-backed 7-2 joint-favourite after swooping late under a considerate Liam Keniry ride to get the better of Gaily Noble in the 1m Digibet Casino Handicap.
Totesport were impressed enough to shave Starluck's Champion Hurdle odds to 14-1 (from 16-1), although Victor Chandler saw no reason the change their 16-1 quote.
Trainer Alan Fleming said: "That's a bit more than I expected to be honest, so I'm very happy with that. He's shown his well being and he's had a good blow. Just one school now between now and Cheltenham, and away we go. Granted some good ground and we'll be getting excited."
Asked if he had any concerns about last year's JCB Triumph Hurdle fourth coming up the hill, he said: "We'll let the horse do the talking, but he's stronger this year and next year he'll be the finished article."
The horse talked and didnt get up the hill. Roughly the same horse as Celestial Halo here -
Tuesday March 16 2010
Cheltenham 15:20 - Result
Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle (grade 1)
£370000 added, 4yo plus, 2m 110y, Class 1, £210937 penalty, 12 ran
Going: Good to Soft (Good in places, Cross Country Good,Good to Soft in places)
Winning Time: 3m 53.9s
Pos. Draw
Dist. Horse Wt Jockey Trainer Age SP
1 Binocular (FR) 11-10 A P McCoy N J Henderson 6 9/1
held up, improved into 5th approaching 4th, went 2nd after 3 out, led going well soon after next, ran on strongly flat opened 8/1 touched 9/1 £20000-£2400 Each Way
2 3½ Khyber Kim 11-10 P J Brennan N A Twiston-Davies 8 7/1
held up towards rear, headway approaching 3 out, switched left and chased winner approaching last, ran on, no impression opened 7/1 touched 15/2
3 6 Zaynar (FR) 11-10 A Tinkler N J Henderson 5 15/2
chased leader, ridden approaching 3 out, lost 2nd 2 out, beaten when jumped left last, one pace opened 9/1 touched 9/1 £25000-£2500
4 2½ Celestial Halo (IRE) 11-10 R Walsh P F Nicholls 6 7/1
led, ridden and headed after 2 out, relegated to 4th and beaten before last opened 8/1 touched 8/1
5 nse Starluck (IRE) 11-10 T J Murphy A Fleming 5 14/1
held up towards rear on outside, headway to go 5th approaching last, no impression on leaders opened 12/1 touched 14/1
6 6 Solwhit (FR) 11-10 D N Russell C Byrnes 6 6/1
held up, went 5th after 2nd, pushed along and lost place before 3 out, soon in rear, no impression after opened 7/1 touched 8/1 £10000-£1200 £3500-£500 £6000-£1000 Each Way
The progressive hurdler, who won at Dundalk early in his career, returned the well-backed 7-2 joint-favourite after swooping late under a considerate Liam Keniry ride to get the better of Gaily Noble in the 1m Digibet Casino Handicap.
Totesport were impressed enough to shave Starluck's Champion Hurdle odds to 14-1 (from 16-1), although Victor Chandler saw no reason the change their 16-1 quote.
Trainer Alan Fleming said: "That's a bit more than I expected to be honest, so I'm very happy with that. He's shown his well being and he's had a good blow. Just one school now between now and Cheltenham, and away we go. Granted some good ground and we'll be getting excited."
Asked if he had any concerns about last year's JCB Triumph Hurdle fourth coming up the hill, he said: "We'll let the horse do the talking, but he's stronger this year and next year he'll be the finished article."
The horse talked and didnt get up the hill. Roughly the same horse as Celestial Halo here -
Tuesday March 16 2010
Cheltenham 15:20 - Result
Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle (grade 1)
£370000 added, 4yo plus, 2m 110y, Class 1, £210937 penalty, 12 ran
Going: Good to Soft (Good in places, Cross Country Good,Good to Soft in places)
Winning Time: 3m 53.9s
Pos. Draw
Dist. Horse Wt Jockey Trainer Age SP
1 Binocular (FR) 11-10 A P McCoy N J Henderson 6 9/1
held up, improved into 5th approaching 4th, went 2nd after 3 out, led going well soon after next, ran on strongly flat opened 8/1 touched 9/1 £20000-£2400 Each Way
2 3½ Khyber Kim 11-10 P J Brennan N A Twiston-Davies 8 7/1
held up towards rear, headway approaching 3 out, switched left and chased winner approaching last, ran on, no impression opened 7/1 touched 15/2
3 6 Zaynar (FR) 11-10 A Tinkler N J Henderson 5 15/2
chased leader, ridden approaching 3 out, lost 2nd 2 out, beaten when jumped left last, one pace opened 9/1 touched 9/1 £25000-£2500
4 2½ Celestial Halo (IRE) 11-10 R Walsh P F Nicholls 6 7/1
led, ridden and headed after 2 out, relegated to 4th and beaten before last opened 8/1 touched 8/1
5 nse Starluck (IRE) 11-10 T J Murphy A Fleming 5 14/1
held up towards rear on outside, headway to go 5th approaching last, no impression on leaders opened 12/1 touched 14/1
6 6 Solwhit (FR) 11-10 D N Russell C Byrnes 6 6/1
held up, went 5th after 2nd, pushed along and lost place before 3 out, soon in rear, no impression after opened 7/1 touched 8/1 £10000-£1200 £3500-£500 £6000-£1000 Each Way
Show More
Eric it is not the trip or the track that is likely to be a problem, it is the going. Soft or softer would be a negative. He was an 11-12f horse on the flat so I'm not worried about the trip, just the going.
Going of course is another factor with this horse
Totesport were impressed enough to shave Starluck's Champion Hurdle odds to 14-1 (from 16-1), although Victor Chandler saw no reason the change their 16-1 quote.
Trainer Alan Fleming said: "That's a bit more than I expected to be honest, so I'm very happy with that. He's shown his well being and he's had a good blow. Just one school now between now and Cheltenham, and away we go. Granted some good ground and we'll be getting excited."
Asked if he had any concerns about last year's JCB Triumph Hurdle fourth coming up the hill, he said: "We'll let the horse do the talking, but he's stronger this year and next year he'll be the finished article."
Totesport were impressed enough to shave Starluck's Champion Hurdle odds to 14-1 (from 16-1), although Victor Chandler saw no reason the change their 16-1 quote.
Trainer Alan Fleming said: "That's a bit more than I expected to be honest, so I'm very happy with that. He's shown his well being and he's had a good blow. Just one school now between now and Cheltenham, and away we go. Granted some good ground and we'll be getting excited."
Asked if he had any concerns about last year's JCB Triumph Hurdle fourth coming up the hill, he said: "We'll let the horse do the talking, but he's stronger this year and next year he'll be the finished article."
now,the hunt area has had a lot of rain in last week and the forecast tomorow is for heavy rain.this imho means the track will be very soft .im aware that hunt drains well but itl still be testing .will starluck run?
if it does run,and indeed win,will firms cut it..after all 2m round hunt isnt exactly chelt is it.
if it does run,and indeed win,will firms cut it..after all 2m round hunt isnt exactly chelt is it.
or will the fact that if it wins ,showing it can jump,be enough to justify cutting it further...ie sub tens?
I suppose it depends on the oppostion and 'if' he wins 'how' he wins ftm.
I think the ground is 'the' important factor with this horse, apart from the strength of the opposition that is.
If he jumps OK at Huntingdon and the ground at Cheltenham is no worse than g/s then I think he has a massive chance because he is probably the best horse in the Arkle.
Will thy shorten him if he wins, of course they will. Wouldn't you?
I think the ground is 'the' important factor with this horse, apart from the strength of the opposition that is.
If he jumps OK at Huntingdon and the ground at Cheltenham is no worse than g/s then I think he has a massive chance because he is probably the best horse in the Arkle.
Will thy shorten him if he wins, of course they will. Wouldn't you?
He will need to jump extremely well on his debut to expel stamina fears at Prestbury Park. A shoddy round will leave a mountain to climb at the Festival. In addition you wont know whether he will jump right handed drastically until the day which again would affect his stamina as Huntingdon is a right handed track.
brigust,of course id shorten him if he was impressive in his round of jumping .i could actually envisage him going off around the 8-1 marker on the day,if he was sure footed at hunt.
im just hoping we miss the worst of the weather tomoro and that we learn something on thurs
im just hoping we miss the worst of the weather tomoro and that we learn something on thurs
He would be worthy of a price shorter than dual Grade 1 chase winner Realt Dubh after a doddle around Huntingdon? Surely not.
Agreed ftm. I don't want to wait for Taunton but I don't want him to have a slog either so I will go with the flow.
Anyway it's late so I'm off, goodnight.
Anyway it's late so I'm off, goodnight.
eric..it very possible and i see your point.
brigust,gnight.
brigust,gnight.
No clues on the hill he seems to have an aversion to today.
If he can jump proficiently (and he has always been good over hurdles) then he definitely has the latent talent to win the Arkle - more so than any other horse in the race imo. If only it was as simple as that
Of course having always been ridden by Timmy Murphy we may see a different Starluck with AP up.
TM has a particular way of riding and this horse may well be better given a different approach.
When he was beaten at Haydock by Mr Thriller on soft ground you can bet Tom Scudamore knew exactly how TM would ride the race and saved a bit for the finish.
TM has a particular way of riding and this horse may well be better given a different approach.
When he was beaten at Haydock by Mr Thriller on soft ground you can bet Tom Scudamore knew exactly how TM would ride the race and saved a bit for the finish.
I could be very wrong here but he really does not strike me as the type for fences.
In response to whether you need more stamina to win a 2 mile chase or a 2 mile hurdle race it's obviously a chase. If you don't believe me go out in the street and run and jump as fast as you can over every parked cars bonnet in your road. Then do it jumping over every car roof. I think that will answer your question.
In response to whether you need more stamina to win a 2 mile chase or a 2 mile hurdle race it's obviously a chase. If you don't believe me go out in the street and run and jump as fast as you can over every parked cars bonnet in your road. Then do it jumping over every car roof. I think that will answer your question.
Done that MM, you're right I'm k n ack ered.
Of course he may not be the type for fences but, he could be exactly the type for fences as well. He has always been easy to ride, not headstrong, and being able to go with a good pace should have plenty of time to jump plus has good short speed between the fences. Could be the beginning of something big.
Of course he may not be the type for fences but, he could be exactly the type for fences as well. He has always been easy to ride, not headstrong, and being able to go with a good pace should have plenty of time to jump plus has good short speed between the fences. Could be the beginning of something big.
Yes he could be very good I couldn't argue with that. His strong travelling will help him greatly chasing and if he jumps well he will be good.
this seems like an afterthought to me. I'm not a great judge of horses but isn't he quite small for a typical chaser, always thought that he looked a hurdler through and through.
The other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned is that he was very disappointing in the xmas hurdle when conditions were really in his favour. Didn't travel as well as he normally does so you couldn't say he was in form (and today will probably prove nothing on that front)
The other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned is that he was very disappointing in the xmas hurdle when conditions were really in his favour. Didn't travel as well as he normally does so you couldn't say he was in form (and today will probably prove nothing on that front)
Agree connections know Kempton is his favourite track yet he was poor there, outpaced over 2 out ridden and kept on same pace. This smacks of desperation as they know he doesnt get up the hill over hurdles and if he gets hammered by Binocular and Overturn at Kempton he has no chance against the favs at Cheltenham, so hey lets switch to fences late instead. This is the same horse and more stamina is required over fences up the hill than hurdles.
The Xmas hurdle wasn't run to suit Starluck if you look. He had no chance to beat Binocular and with AP forcing the pace all the way it would have been stupid for TM to beat him up for nothing. The same applied to Khyber Kim. Neither is good enough to beat Bino so they did the right thing.
Smacks of desperation? Wierd.
You have a good horse who is not good enough to win the CH, what do you do?
They ran him twice over hurdles but it was obvious this was going to be a top notch CH so why waste time tilting at windmills?
This is a wise move to ry to run him in a race where there is no strength in depth and he is now likely to be running in a race he could win as opposed to one he couldn't.
Smacks of desperation? Wierd.
You have a good horse who is not good enough to win the CH, what do you do?
They ran him twice over hurdles but it was obvious this was going to be a top notch CH so why waste time tilting at windmills?
This is a wise move to ry to run him in a race where there is no strength in depth and he is now likely to be running in a race he could win as opposed to one he couldn't.
We havent seen him jump a fence in public yet with less than 3 weeks to the arkle.
Doesn't get ANY true run 2 mile race around cheltenham.
Strong travelling horses don't automatically have that same ability over fences.
The abilty to stay further required to win an arkle, which he hasn't got.
A bridle ponce.
In summary NO!
Doesn't get ANY true run 2 mile race around cheltenham.
Strong travelling horses don't automatically have that same ability over fences.
The abilty to stay further required to win an arkle, which he hasn't got.
A bridle ponce.
In summary NO!
I agree the Arkle looks quite weak (there is nothing in there which you could call a potential champion chase horse next season imo) but the fact they are even considering sending him to the Arkle after one mickey mouse race over fences is wrong imo. The Arkle is a serious test of jumping stiff fences at speed and I have always thought that you want plenty of experience of that going into - the horses welfare should be of paramount importance to the connections and I can only assume he jumps fences at home like a dream for them to be even considering this.
The "Well Chief did it" argument seems to be trotted out every year for horses making late debuts over fences but he was just an exceptional horse.
Interestingly, the hurdle rating is a stat that I follow religiously in the Arkle and so not backing Starluck is going against my golden rule. However, I think the stat has to be taken into context of the other chase evidence on offer and hurdle rating alone should not define a horses chances.
If he wins well today, he'll be single figures and by the day he may be 6/7 - 1. If I was a layer, on the day I'd be getting stuck in.
The "Well Chief did it" argument seems to be trotted out every year for horses making late debuts over fences but he was just an exceptional horse.
Interestingly, the hurdle rating is a stat that I follow religiously in the Arkle and so not backing Starluck is going against my golden rule. However, I think the stat has to be taken into context of the other chase evidence on offer and hurdle rating alone should not define a horses chances.
If he wins well today, he'll be single figures and by the day he may be 6/7 - 1. If I was a layer, on the day I'd be getting stuck in.
^^Someone else who 'knows'. Don't know how some people have the time to come on here with everything they 'know' they should be making a fortune.
Do you 'know'? Or are you just saying you 'know'? I wonder.
Starluck has only ever been ridden by Timmy Murphy whose style is to sit on the bridle and cruise through to win, or not. How do you know that suits this horse? With AP aboard we may see him ridden differently.
But then why on earth am I discussing this when everyone 'knows'.
Do you 'know'? Or are you just saying you 'know'? I wonder.
Starluck has only ever been ridden by Timmy Murphy whose style is to sit on the bridle and cruise through to win, or not. How do you know that suits this horse? With AP aboard we may see him ridden differently.
But then why on earth am I discussing this when everyone 'knows'.
Foe those getting themselves confused as to which requires more stamina, a 2 mile chase or 2 mile hurdle; it is clearly a 2 mile hurdle. For the very simple reason that they leave the ground less times to jump obstacles which results in a faster overall pace. Extending the point further, you need more stamina in a two mile flat race than a two mile hurdle, for the very same reason.
The reason for mentioning this.......if Starluck is beaten it will unlikely be through lack of stamina.
The reason for mentioning this.......if Starluck is beaten it will unlikely be through lack of stamina.
Trainer just said he may not run in the Arkle. Hold bets until after the weekend.
Be a shame if he dosen't go as he adds spice to an intriguing, if not top class, renewal.
For all the talk about him not getting up the hill I actually think he likes the track - has won there impressively and although beaten he actually ran very well in both the Triumph and Champion Hurdle.
For all the talk about him not getting up the hill I actually think he likes the track - has won there impressively and although beaten he actually ran very well in both the Triumph and Champion Hurdle.
Starluck will not win tha Arkle. He does not get 2m over hurdles leaving the ground 8 times, why will he get it using more energy over bigger fences on 12 occasions. No brainer he can not win FULL STOP
^^^^ another 'know-all' after-timer. Where on earth do they keep coming from ffs.
He jumped around with one mistake and skewed one what more can you say.
Yes Jetcrowts, I am.
Of course if you can direct me to where you have declared this invaluable information before the race then I will reconsider my comment.
Of course if you can direct me to where you have declared this invaluable information before the race then I will reconsider my comment.
Brigust1, I wouldn't stress too much about what some of these are saying. They demonstrate their ignorance of the game thinking a chase is more stamina sapping than a hurdle race.
Yeah, thank Brownes. Shouldn't lose my rag though, just going through a 'moment'.
And his trainer did say this so everything may not be lost.
"The Arkle horses might not be as good as the Champion ones at the moment, so he might just have a better opportunity there. I'd hold fire (on bets) until Sunday or Monday.
"Andrew Waites (owner) is back in the country tomorrow, so we'll have a big chat and do what's best for the horse, make a decision from there."
And his trainer did say this so everything may not be lost.
"The Arkle horses might not be as good as the Champion ones at the moment, so he might just have a better opportunity there. I'd hold fire (on bets) until Sunday or Monday.
"Andrew Waites (owner) is back in the country tomorrow, so we'll have a big chat and do what's best for the horse, make a decision from there."
Brigust1...Apart from anything the Arkle is actually 100 yards shorter than the Champion. Sizing Europe os a typical example of a horse who didn't look like he quite got home over 2m at the very highest level over hurdles. Over fences, they were thinking of the KG and GC! The reason being the inevitably slower pace they go over fences compared to hurdles. The time for most CH being on a par with the Arkle despite the larger distance of a 100 yards.
Starluck will not have trouble getting home in 2m Chase races (unless they are run at Towester!).
Starluck will not have trouble getting home in 2m Chase races (unless they are run at Towester!).
I agree Brownes. I have been through this race with a fine tooth comb ever since the decs came out. And I have been backing him right through even up until and including today.
First thoughts were 'why would AP say that' and, sad to say, I must admit I did think with the CH the next race. But that's just how you feel when the old nuts get bashed.
First thoughts were 'why would AP say that' and, sad to say, I must admit I did think with the CH the next race. But that's just how you feel when the old nuts get bashed.
Brigust,
The race (Arkle) has not been run yet why would I want to be making a comment over an egg and spoon race.
You're problem is sunshine is you are talking through your pocket. Take off the rose coloured spectacles and save yourself from throwing more cash away on Starluck.
As for him getting home in an Arkle you can dress it up as much as you like, he won't get up the hill and you need further than 2m to win an Arkle. Listen to AP he knows best.
The race (Arkle) has not been run yet why would I want to be making a comment over an egg and spoon race.
You're problem is sunshine is you are talking through your pocket. Take off the rose coloured spectacles and save yourself from throwing more cash away on Starluck.
As for him getting home in an Arkle you can dress it up as much as you like, he won't get up the hill and you need further than 2m to win an Arkle. Listen to AP he knows best.
Where in AP's comments did he mention Starluck's ability to stay the trip Jet?
McCoy said afterwards: "I'm pleased enough with that. He's very brave and even though there's no doubt he lacks a bit of size, he's not frightened and has loads of bottle.
"At times you can just feel the little horse finds it a bit tough, but for a small horse, he has plenty of courage.
"I said to Alan that I'm not sure it would be fair on him to go straight to the Arkle and we've got to do what's right for the horse."
McCoy said afterwards: "I'm pleased enough with that. He's very brave and even though there's no doubt he lacks a bit of size, he's not frightened and has loads of bottle.
"At times you can just feel the little horse finds it a bit tough, but for a small horse, he has plenty of courage.
"I said to Alan that I'm not sure it would be fair on him to go straight to the Arkle and we've got to do what's right for the horse."
In other words he is saying he can't win the race otherwise he would be saying go for it.
I am trying to save you from wasting more hard earned, guess there are some people you can't help.
I am trying to save you from wasting more hard earned, guess there are some people you can't help.
Jet if you look at the main Arkle thread you will see I have been backing this horse since the beginning of the month, where were you then? And do I sound like I need help? I do hope not.
Most people on the forum just discuss their views, make their choices and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I don't think anyone I discuss views with needs help. Thanks anyway.
Most people on the forum just discuss their views, make their choices and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I don't think anyone I discuss views with needs help. Thanks anyway.
fact - trainer states best form figures on flat tracks
fact - he no well chief
fact - AP not convinced by win
fact - stamina wins Arkle,s
As previously posted wait for Aintree where every box ticked and major player,i feel your really chancing your arm betting him for Arkle sorry chaps.
fact - he no well chief
fact - AP not convinced by win
fact - stamina wins Arkle,s
As previously posted wait for Aintree where every box ticked and major player,i feel your really chancing your arm betting him for Arkle sorry chaps.
Suddenly we are all listening to the trainer. Why in f u c k s name did he enter the horse in the first place if he knows so much?
And how many times has a trainer told his jockey to ride one horse then it gets beaten by the stable companion?
Suddenly trainers are all knowing, all seeing.
So why did he enter it in the first f u c k i n g place?
And how many times has a trainer told his jockey to ride one horse then it gets beaten by the stable companion?
Suddenly trainers are all knowing, all seeing.
So why did he enter it in the first f u c k i n g place?
Brigust1,
Your comment about 3 posts up confirms exactly what I said on my previous post. You confirmed you are talking through your pocket old lad.
Not only will the horse win on all known form, nearly all the stats are against him winning it.
I am not wishing to offer help, in fact, you keep backing him, will drive the prices out of the real contenders.
Your comment about 3 posts up confirms exactly what I said on my previous post. You confirmed you are talking through your pocket old lad.
Not only will the horse win on all known form, nearly all the stats are against him winning it.
I am not wishing to offer help, in fact, you keep backing him, will drive the prices out of the real contenders.
not only win the horse not win above post should read
Of course I'm talking through my pocket, what is wrong with that?
Just let me remind you of the following:
The trainer entered the horse for the Arkle on 26th January, 4 weeks ago, he was less experienced then and exactly the same size as he is now. He has also been saying he wants the same jockey who rides him in his first chase to ride him in the Arkle because his usual rider Timmy Murphy is claimed for Ghizao.
Cheltenham is the same track today as it was 4 weeks ago.
So pray tell me what I didn't understand there?
Or are you going to say the trainer was stupid entering him in the first place?
Just let me remind you of the following:
The trainer entered the horse for the Arkle on 26th January, 4 weeks ago, he was less experienced then and exactly the same size as he is now. He has also been saying he wants the same jockey who rides him in his first chase to ride him in the Arkle because his usual rider Timmy Murphy is claimed for Ghizao.
Cheltenham is the same track today as it was 4 weeks ago.
So pray tell me what I didn't understand there?
Or are you going to say the trainer was stupid entering him in the first place?
It was a decent run but if sticks to the bigger obstactles he will be down the handicap route in time. I cant put my finger on it but just didnt look like had enough about him to me
And I suppose the 2 good horses he absolutely mullered today on ground more suitable to them than him will be running in sellers.
I thought I had heard everything.
I thought I had heard everything.
Its all about opinions and just not convinced he is a chaser
This horse would have absolutely no bother getting home in an Arkle were he to jump well.he got home ok in the CH last year,so why the heck should he not in an Arkle which is ran at a slower pace being a chase.
THe end of the day its all about whether connections are happy to run him with his limited experience,and nowt to do with Cheltenham.
THe end of the day its all about whether connections are happy to run him with his limited experience,and nowt to do with Cheltenham.
Brigust he beat two middle of the road horses today and was getting weight from both of them aswell, if he hadn't mullered them you may have ripped up your antepost vouchers.Personally i wouldnt back him with stolen money but each to there own and all that jazz
Brigust, he did not beat 2 good horses today FACT. Like I said earlier take the rose tinted spectacles off. If you think he beat two good horses today you should give the game up.
Wouldn't back him with counterfeit but each to there own.
Wouldn't back him with counterfeit but each to there own.
no,the point is you are saying you would not back him with stolen,i am interested why that is.
He's a bridle ponce budd, no if's but's or maybe's about it! you watch his run last year @ haydock and watch his run in last years champion hurdle aswell, just watch him and celestial halo from the 3rd last and forget about the 3 horses in front of them
The way I see it this years race is far from a vintage renewal.for those that have behave bet Starluck at 50s down good luck.you don't need a lot on at those odds to get the old pulse going!
umm,i watched the CH a few times now,and he gets home ok in my view,and is not a bridal ponce as you call him.got home ok in the xmas hurdle behind Go Native as well i thought.
Strenghtened up since then i think after watching him in the fighting fifth this season.
if he runs hes a big chance i feel,dont think he will though,after reading between the lines connections quotes today.
Strenghtened up since then i think after watching him in the fighting fifth this season.
if he runs hes a big chance i feel,dont think he will though,after reading between the lines connections quotes today.
Goretski Celestial Halo was 2nd in the CH the year before and was wearing blinkers for the first time also Zaynar beat Starluck further in the Triumph. Plus all 4 in front of him had higher ratings and were shorter in the betting. He finished exactly where he should have finished. And if you watched Celestial Halo on Saturday against Mille Chief you will know how difficult he is to get past.
Your problem is you are getting confused with what you want to see compared with what you actually do see.
Your problem is you are getting confused with what you want to see compared with what you actually do see.
Seriously lads,i suggest you watch the champion hurdle again taking note of Starluck and CH and how both of them are ridden, forget all those horses around them, makes for interesting viewing imo. And if he isn't a bridle ponce then how would you explain his run at haydock last year? this horse has issues when off the bridle and has shown it consistently since day one.
Also bare in mind that before today the last time this horse won was a flat race nearly a year ago and was about 15-16 months since he won a race over hurdles,beating the mighty classic swain,saticon and silk hall in the process. The highest level he's ever won a race over obstacles being a class two race and now theres the notion he could run well in what would be only his second start over fences, around cheltenham in a grade 1 championship race.
Also bare in mind that before today the last time this horse won was a flat race nearly a year ago and was about 15-16 months since he won a race over hurdles,beating the mighty classic swain,saticon and silk hall in the process. The highest level he's ever won a race over obstacles being a class two race and now theres the notion he could run well in what would be only his second start over fences, around cheltenham in a grade 1 championship race.
He is only a small horse physically as pointed out by AP. From a safety perspective shouldnt he be getting more experience over fences at Sandown before Aintree or Punchestowns rather than being thrown in at the deep end in his second outing which could lead to something they might regret?
Goretski did you notice the going at Haydock?
Did you notice the rating of the horse who beat him half a length?
The way he was ridden by Timmy Murphy was typical Murphy. AP rode him completely differently today so you know what you can do with your 'bridle ponce' comment. The horse can only run the way the jockey lets him. Nothing wrong with the horse.
Get your facts right please.
Instead of making your fatuous comments why don't your tell me a horse he didn't beat that he should have?
Just tell me one. Any one will do.
Did you notice the rating of the horse who beat him half a length?
The way he was ridden by Timmy Murphy was typical Murphy. AP rode him completely differently today so you know what you can do with your 'bridle ponce' comment. The horse can only run the way the jockey lets him. Nothing wrong with the horse.
Get your facts right please.
Instead of making your fatuous comments why don't your tell me a horse he didn't beat that he should have?
Just tell me one. Any one will do.
Brigust are you just syphoning through the form book or are you actually watching there races?
Mr Thiller!
We are talking bout the same horse he aren't we??
Mr Thiller!
We are talking bout the same horse he aren't we??
Yes Mr Thriller. He was rated 161 while Starluck was rated 147.
The ground was desperate and TM took the scenic route to get the best ground. Still only got beat half a length.
The ground was desperate and TM took the scenic route to get the best ground. Still only got beat half a length.
Why don't you answer my question Goretski?
Tell me one horse Starluck should have beaten but didn't?
Take your time. Any one will do.
Something that backs up your 'bridle ponce' ridiculos insulting comment.
Tell me one horse Starluck should have beaten but didn't?
Take your time. Any one will do.
Something that backs up your 'bridle ponce' ridiculos insulting comment.
Your insane man, i just gave you one.......Mr thiller!
Mr Thiller was rated 14lb superior to Starluck why should he beat him?
Why is it when you question someones claims they then call you insane.
Your claims are clearly wrong. If you don't like being told that then that is tough.
Why is it when you question someones claims they then call you insane.
Your claims are clearly wrong. If you don't like being told that then that is tough.
Actually Goretski, could you name a horse in this year's Arkle that you'd take to beat Starluck over hurdles (i.e. one that would do better than 5th in last year's Champion Hurdle). I'll presume that you can't find one. Now, based on that, the fact he has demonstrated he has taken to fences today, and the fact that stamina won't be an issue in a 2 mile chase compared to a 2 mile hurdle; then you can't say he has no chance. I'm not saying he'll win, but he seems to have what I'd describe as 'as good a chance as any'.
Why should wolves beat manchester utd? one is top of the league, the other is bottom!
Why should thomas bjorn beat tiger woods? woods is the world number three, bjorn the worlds number 65!
I surveyed 100 people, i showed them the haydock race and paused it just after they jumped the last, i told them Mr thiller was rated 161 and starluck 147, i gave each of them 100 pounds and told them each horse was even money to win the race....how many of them said starluck?
The survey says.....................100!!
Brigust the form book, ratings, speed figures are all great tools but the best tool you'll ever have when assessing races is your mince pies.
If we all went be your theory we'd all be millionaires, just back them top rated hoss in graded races and everyones a winner!
Look i know you've invested your hard earned and your defending that decision, thats no hasslehoff. I'm just saying he's not for me and stating the reason why imo.
P.S if you think starluck shouldn't have beaten Mr Thiller then you are insane!
Why should thomas bjorn beat tiger woods? woods is the world number three, bjorn the worlds number 65!
I surveyed 100 people, i showed them the haydock race and paused it just after they jumped the last, i told them Mr thiller was rated 161 and starluck 147, i gave each of them 100 pounds and told them each horse was even money to win the race....how many of them said starluck?
The survey says.....................100!!
Brigust the form book, ratings, speed figures are all great tools but the best tool you'll ever have when assessing races is your mince pies.
If we all went be your theory we'd all be millionaires, just back them top rated hoss in graded races and everyones a winner!
Look i know you've invested your hard earned and your defending that decision, thats no hasslehoff. I'm just saying he's not for me and stating the reason why imo.
P.S if you think starluck shouldn't have beaten Mr Thiller then you are insane!
and the fact that stamina won't be an issue in a 2 mile chase compared to a 2 mile hurdle
Brownes. I asked you this on the other thread. What on earth are you basing this theory on? A I said, dont mean to sound rude but its nonsense. The Arkle winner nearly always has more stamina than the Triumph or Supreme winner imo.
Brownes. I asked you this on the other thread. What on earth are you basing this theory on? A I said, dont mean to sound rude but its nonsense. The Arkle winner nearly always has more stamina than the Triumph or Supreme winner imo.
I agree with you btw Goretski. I am a big Starluck fan, but having backed him the last 2 years (heavily so for the Triumph), I dont think he is a Cheltenham horse. He hasnt gone up the hill either time, and I see no reason that will chnage this year.
Can't Catch Me....sorry fella, just answered on the other thread.
I may be insane but can I put a bit of flesh on these bones Gorestki.
At Haydock that day 21st Nov 09 the ground was desperate. Kauto Star won that day and Nichols said the ground was that bad he would never run KS there again.
The one thing Starluck dislikes is desperate ground whereas Mr Thriller loves it. And that is reiterated by his trainer.
And if you think by watching a race you can predict results I suggest you bet in running because numerous horses trade at 1.01 in the betting and get beat. Perhaps they all don't stay?
At Haydock that day 21st Nov 09 the ground was desperate. Kauto Star won that day and Nichols said the ground was that bad he would never run KS there again.
The one thing Starluck dislikes is desperate ground whereas Mr Thriller loves it. And that is reiterated by his trainer.
And if you think by watching a race you can predict results I suggest you bet in running because numerous horses trade at 1.01 in the betting and get beat. Perhaps they all don't stay?
I know the ground was shocking that day brigust and its not entirely starluck's cup of tea but he seemed to travel well enough that day, didnt hurdle aswell as he can, possibly jumping of the ground being the reason but i dont care if mr thiller was rated 261, he still shouldn't have beat starluck that day from after the last and when he went 2-3 lengths up on the run-in.
Thank goodness. The ground is the most important thing and Mr Thriller stayed further, and was given a great ride by Tom Scudamore.
The world and his wife would have known how TM would ride Starluck and I think TS gave his horse a great ride by saving a bit.
But that is just my opinion I have never claimed he should have beaten Mr Thriller on that ground or beaten any of the horses who beat him at Cheltenham. This staying thing is grossly over-rated.
You watch racing day in day out you must see horses getting collared every day after the last on this bad ground?
Come on finding one spurious race hardly stands up as proof of anything.
The world and his wife would have known how TM would ride Starluck and I think TS gave his horse a great ride by saving a bit.
But that is just my opinion I have never claimed he should have beaten Mr Thriller on that ground or beaten any of the horses who beat him at Cheltenham. This staying thing is grossly over-rated.
You watch racing day in day out you must see horses getting collared every day after the last on this bad ground?
Come on finding one spurious race hardly stands up as proof of anything.
You dont want this horse to get the AP treatment at a stamina sapping course like Cheltenham in the best/fastest company on only his second outing over fences, a course he has not shown great stamina over hurdles there twice before. A small horse he needs more time to gain fencing experience, AP said it today yet brigust1 knows better .... LMAO.
FO Eric. The next time you talk any sense worth listening will be the first time.
Don't you know Eric? You mean there is something you don't know? I can't believe that. But I got up this morning a new day, feeling fine, positive and moving forward. The last thing I want to do is end up like you Eric. One miserable f u c k e r.
No, yesterday was a bad day but hey-ho today is a new day and we march on. It's only a bet. If Starluck doesn't run there will be other opportunities.
However I do hope they allow Starluck to run, not for my financial reasons, just to settle the issue, once and for all. End of.
No, yesterday was a bad day but hey-ho today is a new day and we march on. It's only a bet. If Starluck doesn't run there will be other opportunities.
However I do hope they allow Starluck to run, not for my financial reasons, just to settle the issue, once and for all. End of.
Nearly catching the antepost CH fav and beating the eventual winner of that race at Kempton really screams Bridal ponce? dont think so
pmsl
clueless some people!!
Anyway as i said,i dont think connections will run him,think they want him to gain more experience,seems that way listening to them.Makes sense that they should be the ones to decide whats best for the horse as i have been saying all along,Pity for my bet but sh!t happens in this game.
Eric,if they decide not to run,you will be glad they read your posts and took your advice
pmsl
clueless some people!!
Anyway as i said,i dont think connections will run him,think they want him to gain more experience,seems that way listening to them.Makes sense that they should be the ones to decide whats best for the horse as i have been saying all along,Pity for my bet but sh!t happens in this game.
Eric,if they decide not to run,you will be glad they read your posts and took your advice
He stayed on better than Binocular at Newbury and had Peddlers Cross at full strectch. He's no bridle ponce, let's hope he gets his chance. I get the impression there'll be some laying off their bets on the favourite if he gets the green light.
If the trainer had origianlly said that they were just going to see how he got on on his fencing debut and then make a decision about the Arkle or whether to wait for Aintree etc it would have been fair enough, but everything I read leading up to yesterdays race suggested that a nice win would see him line up for the Arkle.
Feel sorry for backers.
Feel sorry for backers.
Complete rubbish, they never said he was definitely going for the Arkle and gave warnings they would see how it went. Your mistake if you have backed him you were warned he may not go Arkle.
Extreme arrogance on here by those with 50s ignoring McCoy's advice to connections that the Arkle will be too soon for Starluck. Would imagine McCoy knows better than you lot with 50s and he doesnt want this small horse to have his confidence destroyed over fences on only his second outing or worse.
Extreme arrogance on here by those with 50s ignoring McCoy's advice to connections that the Arkle will be too soon for Starluck. Would imagine McCoy knows better than you lot with 50s and he doesnt want this small horse to have his confidence destroyed over fences on only his second outing or worse.
These are some trainer quotes -
"He's going to run over fences either next week or the week after and then, if all went well, he could run in the Arkle," said Fleming.
"We'll just have to see what happens on his next run as that will tell us if he likes it or not. We'll play it all by ear."
"He's going to run over fences either next week or the week after and then, if all went well, he could run in the Arkle," said Fleming.
"We'll just have to see what happens on his next run as that will tell us if he likes it or not. We'll play it all by ear."
If they are playing it with their ears and listening to the jockey, AP he will go to Sandown to get more experience.
I haven't backed the horse though feel he would be a worthy 7/1 shot or thereabouts if he lined up on normal going - I'd certainly fancy him far more than Finians Rainbow who I have backed at huge prices
.
I agree they never once said he would definitely run in the Arkle, and even if they had they still have the right to change their mind. Alan King did this with My Way De Solzen - at a Cheltenham preview evening he told the assembled crowd that he would be going for the Ryanair (price went out to over 20/1 for the Arkle) - a few days later switched back to Arkle
But they did say that 'if all went well he could run in the Arkle' and 'his next run will tell us if he likes it'. Well to my eyes his win yesterday was good enough to persuade them, epecially in such an open year, and those people who backed him did so in the strong belief that a nice win with a solid round of jumping would be enough to see him line up. Making them out to be stupid for taking the chance is not nice.
Of course he could be declared an intended runner next week and then tread on a stone or something - such is the nature of antepost betting.
.I agree they never once said he would definitely run in the Arkle, and even if they had they still have the right to change their mind. Alan King did this with My Way De Solzen - at a Cheltenham preview evening he told the assembled crowd that he would be going for the Ryanair (price went out to over 20/1 for the Arkle) - a few days later switched back to Arkle
But they did say that 'if all went well he could run in the Arkle' and 'his next run will tell us if he likes it'. Well to my eyes his win yesterday was good enough to persuade them, epecially in such an open year, and those people who backed him did so in the strong belief that a nice win with a solid round of jumping would be enough to see him line up. Making them out to be stupid for taking the chance is not nice.
Of course he could be declared an intended runner next week and then tread on a stone or something - such is the nature of antepost betting.
Agree with that Uncle. I never claimed any malpractice just disappointment really. Started backing him a month ago, after he was confirmed, and everything seemed to be going the right way.
My problem is I backed him in singles, doubles yankees etc and had so much at stake yesterday I laid him just in case he fell or didn't take to it. I wanted to lose my money because I thought he would be going to Cheltenham. After all he has for the last 2 years in stronger races he couldn't win. Then hey-ho one minute I'm celebrating losing what I laid then the next wham. That's gambling I guess.
My problem is I backed him in singles, doubles yankees etc and had so much at stake yesterday I laid him just in case he fell or didn't take to it. I wanted to lose my money because I thought he would be going to Cheltenham. After all he has for the last 2 years in stronger races he couldn't win. Then hey-ho one minute I'm celebrating losing what I laid then the next wham. That's gambling I guess.
Nobody made them out to be stupid other than you who specializes in putting words in people's mouths. I said it was their mistake when warnings were given they would play it by ear. Well McCoy has had a word in their ear advising them the Arkle comes too soon.
The horse was feeling it a bit according to AP and who are you to argue with him to satisfy your positions on the race whether it be backing him or laying others. Am sure both the trainer and jockey have spoken about doing what is right for the horse and not for your positions on the race.
The horse was feeling it a bit according to AP and who are you to argue with him to satisfy your positions on the race whether it be backing him or laying others. Am sure both the trainer and jockey have spoken about doing what is right for the horse and not for your positions on the race.
We have all had antepost disappointments, improve your techniques or deal with it imo.
shut up Eric,your making a completd pr&t of yourself
Budd and booster, so are you telling me that starluck finds off the bridle what he looks like he has left in the tank when he's on it? a smiple yes or no answer will do
FFs Goretski you're like a dog with a bone. Why don't you just eat it and move on.
Starluck has been beaten 6 times. Five were in Grade 1's where he wasn't good enough and the other time was on bottomless ground against a higher rated horse.
Try reading the above at least twice then move on. There is nothing left for you here.
Starluck has been beaten 6 times. Five were in Grade 1's where he wasn't good enough and the other time was on bottomless ground against a higher rated horse.
Try reading the above at least twice then move on. There is nothing left for you here.
looks like he has left is open to interpretation,and we could clearly have differing opinions on that,same with a lot of horses.
as a juvenile i thought he lacked a finish to his races,and was not finding what i thought he should.I do think now he has srengthened i no longer have the same opinion as i formed a couple of years ago.
That is purely based on watching the horse.
as a juvenile i thought he lacked a finish to his races,and was not finding what i thought he should.I do think now he has srengthened i no longer have the same opinion as i formed a couple of years ago.
That is purely based on watching the horse.
sorry it werent a simpler answer,but imo it was not possible given the question.
Playing devils advocate how about this as similar example:
When Usain Bolt blitz's clear of his rivals in the last 120 yards of a 100m sprint leaving them toiling in his wake does that mean they haven't stayed the trip?
Oh and Eric - as unlike you I have put all my backs for the Arkle on the various threads as soon as I have placed them, Finians at 33/1+ back in November (now laid off at 5/1), and Realth Dubh at 14/1 and a small saver on Merdermit at 12/1 both back in January I have nothing to gain by Starluck running in the Arkle - I've even been on one of your Captain Chris threads and said that they should run him in the race even though that again would not be to my benefit - so my pocket , if it is talking, is trying to do me out of money
.
When Usain Bolt blitz's clear of his rivals in the last 120 yards of a 100m sprint leaving them toiling in his wake does that mean they haven't stayed the trip?
Oh and Eric - as unlike you I have put all my backs for the Arkle on the various threads as soon as I have placed them, Finians at 33/1+ back in November (now laid off at 5/1), and Realth Dubh at 14/1 and a small saver on Merdermit at 12/1 both back in January I have nothing to gain by Starluck running in the Arkle - I've even been on one of your Captain Chris threads and said that they should run him in the race even though that again would not be to my benefit - so my pocket , if it is talking, is trying to do me out of money
.
buddeliea it is noticeable how you pinch my stance on a lot of races unless you already have a bet on them when you, as in this case, become a complete pocket talker.
If I shut up as you suggest you would at least not nick my observations and use them as your own.
block me if you dont like it when I point out negatives regarding your selections. Do it you wont prevent me giving my views on here, it is a forum.
If I shut up as you suggest you would at least not nick my observations and use them as your own.
block me if you dont like it when I point out negatives regarding your selections. Do it you wont prevent me giving my views on here, it is a forum.
Goretski, a bridle ponce, as you put it, is a horse who finds nothing off the bridle. This description does not apply to Starluck, although horses who travel well, often find less than looks likely but are more suited to fast run races where all horses are not going as quick at the end of the race as they do off a slow pace. The Arkle is just such a race and, if he runs, and there are no guarantees yet, he could be on the bridle on the run in such is his class advantage over the majority of the field on hurdle ratings.
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