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After yesterdays romp in Ireland must have a fantastic chance in this years gold cup,hopefully better ground in march would bring about a bit more improvement,although i don`t believe he is ground dependant and really liked the way he quickend between the last two yesterday and showed no sign of stopping at the end.At 20s i think that is a fair price for an improving 8year old staying chaser in a race where the old guard have a few questions to answer.
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Wasn't thinking! His Irish mark of 154 probably equates to 162 over here. Still thought that was a weak race yesterday.
souldancer - He was rated 154 before the race, obviously he's jumped up another 10lbs.
If he'd won a h'cap in similar manner he may have warranted a 10lb rise. Winning a poor Grade 1, I'm not convinced
to be fair, i think the likes of neptune collonges could have breezed that race. 2miles 4 on different ground to cheltenham, and on a flat track is hardly gc material. tbh if i owned him i wouldnt even run him in the gc
true enough, my mistake. extra 2 furlongs, not 6
been a big fan of this horse since it established itself as a decent 3 miler at punchestown last year....i put a thread up at the start of this season wondering if it would come over for newburys hennessy...but got laughed off....having said all that though....it was a pi55 poor race yesterday....which he probably had every entitlement to win.
flat horses dont win gold cups. pandorama is the irish challenger.
Not sure why Kauto's rating of 190 is being mentioned.... he'll never get near that mark again.
I think this horse is a very worthy candidate in what doesnt look a great renewal.
I think this horse is a very worthy candidate in what doesnt look a great renewal.
First point,for the formbook queens(dont we hate them).
The top 3 rated chasers are kauto star 190,imperial commander 185 and denman 179.
Kautos stars decline is obvious,he was being pushed to stay in touch in last years gold cup after making mistakes,when he fell,he struggled to beat a 160 rated horse 1st time up this season(nichols will claim he wasnt 100%)and he again made mistakes in this seasons king george,when 3rd to the then 158 rated longrun,and the non staying 160 rated(at the time) riverside theatre.
So kauto star cannot win this year,as its apparent hes running nowhere near his 190 rating.
Next up imperial commander,big question hear is what sort of shape will they get him there in?,horses dont improve or stay festival fit in fields,very hard to imagine hes going to run anywhere near his best rating of 185.
Denman,of the three,hes the one apparently running to something like his best,conceding 26lb to the 156 rated(at the time)diamond harry,and 25lb to the 157 rated(at the time) burton port and be beaten 15 1/2 lengths,with three 156 rated chasers finishing 4th,5th and 6th(receiving 31 lb),it has to said denman seems to retain much of his old ability
Personally i thought this year was the time to have a pop at the national,as he was exposed as lacking that extra gear last year,hes not exactly going to be getting any quicker at 11.
But nichols understandably thinks he can be the only trainer to train 2 horses that have regained the gold cup,and if that comes off,that will never happen again,fact.
So onto Kempes,unexposed at 3miles+,won quite well from the 155 rated glencove marina,but one couldnt get to carried away with that,after all the runner up had previously finished double that distance behind pandorama,a race in which kempes unseated rider at the 2nd last(apparently travelling reasonably well at the time).
But it has to be said,mccoy had given kempes an aweful lot to do that day,and to my mind,casey has a far better understanding of kempes than mccoy,but unfortunately for punters,its almost a certainty that mccoy will be in the saddle on gold cup day.
So conclusion,on the + side,kempes is an unexposed improving sort that has a decent turn of foot and some classy bits of form at trips that were to short for him,and will appreciate the extra distance in the gold cup,grounds not going to be an issue.
Negatives,hes a bit on the small side,his rating would suggest he needs to improve at least a stone +,if not more on what hes done so far,has been held up way off the pace,maybe not good tactics in the gold cup,as he can fiddle a few.
18.5 on betfair,worth a few quid,as ide rather have one going the right way,than 2 going the wrong way.
Ide say good luck,but lucks got little to do with it,its all about ability,natural ability and abilty to handle the undulations of cheltenham.
The top 3 rated chasers are kauto star 190,imperial commander 185 and denman 179.
Kautos stars decline is obvious,he was being pushed to stay in touch in last years gold cup after making mistakes,when he fell,he struggled to beat a 160 rated horse 1st time up this season(nichols will claim he wasnt 100%)and he again made mistakes in this seasons king george,when 3rd to the then 158 rated longrun,and the non staying 160 rated(at the time) riverside theatre.
So kauto star cannot win this year,as its apparent hes running nowhere near his 190 rating.
Next up imperial commander,big question hear is what sort of shape will they get him there in?,horses dont improve or stay festival fit in fields,very hard to imagine hes going to run anywhere near his best rating of 185.
Denman,of the three,hes the one apparently running to something like his best,conceding 26lb to the 156 rated(at the time)diamond harry,and 25lb to the 157 rated(at the time) burton port and be beaten 15 1/2 lengths,with three 156 rated chasers finishing 4th,5th and 6th(receiving 31 lb),it has to said denman seems to retain much of his old ability
Personally i thought this year was the time to have a pop at the national,as he was exposed as lacking that extra gear last year,hes not exactly going to be getting any quicker at 11.
But nichols understandably thinks he can be the only trainer to train 2 horses that have regained the gold cup,and if that comes off,that will never happen again,fact.
So onto Kempes,unexposed at 3miles+,won quite well from the 155 rated glencove marina,but one couldnt get to carried away with that,after all the runner up had previously finished double that distance behind pandorama,a race in which kempes unseated rider at the 2nd last(apparently travelling reasonably well at the time).
But it has to be said,mccoy had given kempes an aweful lot to do that day,and to my mind,casey has a far better understanding of kempes than mccoy,but unfortunately for punters,its almost a certainty that mccoy will be in the saddle on gold cup day.
So conclusion,on the + side,kempes is an unexposed improving sort that has a decent turn of foot and some classy bits of form at trips that were to short for him,and will appreciate the extra distance in the gold cup,grounds not going to be an issue.
Negatives,hes a bit on the small side,his rating would suggest he needs to improve at least a stone +,if not more on what hes done so far,has been held up way off the pace,maybe not good tactics in the gold cup,as he can fiddle a few.
18.5 on betfair,worth a few quid,as ide rather have one going the right way,than 2 going the wrong way.
Ide say good luck,but lucks got little to do with it,its all about ability,natural ability and abilty to handle the undulations of cheltenham.
a good tread ths one, as a hurdles fan, i like a few pointers in the Gold Cup and want to throw my hat in the Kempes ring.i have a good record in the Gold Cup though, i remember when war of attrition won the race, but 2 minutes earlier he ran fourth in the triumph,to land some lumpy each way wagers,this animal seems to have a similar profile. i admit for once AP maybe the negative factor,but in my opinion it is a very weak Gold Cup this year.I can't see it being out of the frame.
Evra,never say never unless your that clever,but you answered this thread,so i guess your not.
crab patties,yeh,nice theory,fu**in idiot,get a job loser.
ramraid,last you had a winner was it?war of attrition,2006,fs,to**er,another waste of space,weak gold cup,you c**t,when has the gold cup ever been weak?,there's like 3 past gold cup winners in it,its probably the strongest gold cup ever,you fuc**ng ar**hole.
crab patties,yeh,nice theory,fu**in idiot,get a job loser.
ramraid,last you had a winner was it?war of attrition,2006,fs,to**er,another waste of space,weak gold cup,you c**t,when has the gold cup ever been weak?,there's like 3 past gold cup winners in it,its probably the strongest gold cup ever,you fuc**ng ar**hole.
f**k me,no wonder the unemployment levels are so high in the uk,full of fu**in ret**ds
so thick they nhad to bring truck loads of immigrants in to do your jobs
last gold cup winner that was flat bred was alverton in1979,kempes has massive stats to overcome.
diamond harry , it will be tailed off mate crab, it will be pulled up before the others get to the final bend.
Dont stake your hard earned on that around cheltenham, go and spend your stake money on a brand new mirror! take it home then look into it and have a word!
Dont stake your hard earned on that around cheltenham, go and spend your stake money on a brand new mirror! take it home then look into it and have a word!
Cheltenham??
Diamond Harry has won twice at Cheltenham....
Reasons he will be pulled up please
Diamond Harry has won twice at Cheltenham....
Reasons he will be pulled up please
Hold on,flat bred,wtf you on about?wasnt denmans sire,presenting 3rd in the derby?.
Wasnt kauto stars sire,village star 5th in the arc de triomphe?.
Didnt flemensfirth,imperial commanders sire,win the group 2 prix dollar twice?.!!!!!!!
Would you like to elaborate on what you mean FLAT bred,or shall i send you a tee shirt with the words emblazened on it"please god help me to keep my big mouth shut till i actually know wehat im talking about"!!!!![;)]
Wasnt kauto stars sire,village star 5th in the arc de triomphe?.
Didnt flemensfirth,imperial commanders sire,win the group 2 prix dollar twice?.!!!!!!!
Would you like to elaborate on what you mean FLAT bred,or shall i send you a tee shirt with the words emblazened on it"please god help me to keep my big mouth shut till i actually know wehat im talking about"!!!!![;)]
bbsband,he means diamond harry had enough class to beat door boy(veered across the track),and again against bensalem(taken sharply left to race alone well before last and again when edging left and challenging final obstacle, driven to lead final 100yds, stayed on strongly,exactly,edged left again),but looked one paced against mikhael dagenet,and looked a non stayer,or like he didnt appreciate the contours of cheltenham in the sun alliance,something which could have been interpreted to a degree in its 1st 2 wins.
Looks like it prefers a flatter track,won 4 times at newbury,and travelled extremely well there last time.
wont win the gold cup,end of discussion.
Looks like it prefers a flatter track,won 4 times at newbury,and travelled extremely well there last time.
wont win the gold cup,end of discussion.
he wont get that trip there bbsband you knob, all this track form crap you are going on about ...give it a break
sorry lol247,meant to say last horse to run on the flat.
to win a gold cup you got to be able to have either of the following:
THE CLASS or the ability to stay over 3m5f if you dont have the class, and he has neither!
his last run where it looked like he was staying on was becasue he was carrying 10st, he will be pulled up in Gold Cup! end of
THE CLASS or the ability to stay over 3m5f if you dont have the class, and he has neither!
his last run where it looked like he was staying on was becasue he was carrying 10st, he will be pulled up in Gold Cup! end of
beacuse to intice knobs like yourself you sheep, again ...end of
you could ask why cooldine was 12s and tricky trickser 12s last year, you see bbs its to get all the sheeps money.
so you emptied your account then on Diamond??? if you have then say goodbye to it, because you aint getting it back!
so you emptied your account then on Diamond??? if you have then say goodbye to it, because you aint getting it back!
Apology accepted,lol.
I think the majority of the better jumpers have top class flat sires nowdays,just that class translating to the jumps
I think the majority of the better jumpers have top class flat sires nowdays,just that class translating to the jumps
Just comical that people think Kempes could win a Gold Cup.
Would love a match bet Diamond Harry over Kempes
Would love a match bet Diamond Harry over Kempes
Dont drink BBS, so try another, tell me why Diamond will win GC?
I wouldnt empty my account on any one horse.
I have bet Imperial Commander-Diamond Harry and Kempes
Kempes @ 75/1
I give all three a chance..
Just my opinion same as we all have an opinion...
Thats what racings all about.
Just the way you spout off and chat on here like a halfwit
spoils this forum....
I have bet Imperial Commander-Diamond Harry and Kempes
Kempes @ 75/1
I give all three a chance..
Just my opinion same as we all have an opinion...
Thats what racings all about.
Just the way you spout off and chat on here like a halfwit
spoils this forum....
Haaa,hes a card that rozel,but he is right.
If youve emptied your hard earned on diamond harry,you wont be seeing it again.
Those prices are to attract the sheep,make it look like it has a chance,when in reality,diamond harry is a 33/1 shot.
Denman gave harry 26 lbs,now your not telling me harry will beat him at levels,i doubt it,and denman could only finish 2nd in last years gold cup,beaten 7 lths.
So where does harry stand,i think theyde probably say he has a good stone to find to be anywhere near the best.
If youve emptied your hard earned on diamond harry,you wont be seeing it again.
Those prices are to attract the sheep,make it look like it has a chance,when in reality,diamond harry is a 33/1 shot.
Denman gave harry 26 lbs,now your not telling me harry will beat him at levels,i doubt it,and denman could only finish 2nd in last years gold cup,beaten 7 lths.
So where does harry stand,i think theyde probably say he has a good stone to find to be anywhere near the best.
well dont put losing tips on here then, novice punters come on here and id hate to think that they'd be taking your advice which is based on absolutley nothing, you shouldnt put your selections on forums without any reasoning as its just a waste of time.
Kempes on his 3 mile runs this year can be considered a 161/162+ horse(improver),but thats some way off the gold cup standard required as it stands.
Diamond harry is officially rated 168,i think thats spot on.
So in a match on a flat track,Harry could be considered favourite,if it was at 3 miles,but it would be interesting,kempes is a very decent improving horse with a turn of foot.
So its not that comical.[;)]
Diamond harry is officially rated 168,i think thats spot on.
So in a match on a flat track,Harry could be considered favourite,if it was at 3 miles,but it would be interesting,kempes is a very decent improving horse with a turn of foot.
So its not that comical.[;)]
agree with kempes, some savers at 100s..[:D][;)][:D] you know what i mean harry?
barnesy Date Joined: 24 Jun 05
Add contact | Send message When: 13 Feb 11 21:17
Just comical that people think Kempes could win a Gold Cup.
Would love a match bet Diamond Harry over Kempes
It's not commical IMO. He may be a year early but he is clearly on the upgrade, ground wont be an issue and he will be shorter on the day than he is now. That alone makes him a viable antepost bet. The money for Kempes on the day could be huge, AP mug punters and the possibility of the Irish piling on make him an obvious shortener on the day of the race.
Add contact | Send message When: 13 Feb 11 21:17
Just comical that people think Kempes could win a Gold Cup.
Would love a match bet Diamond Harry over Kempes
It's not commical IMO. He may be a year early but he is clearly on the upgrade, ground wont be an issue and he will be shorter on the day than he is now. That alone makes him a viable antepost bet. The money for Kempes on the day could be huge, AP mug punters and the possibility of the Irish piling on make him an obvious shortener on the day of the race.
This horse is just clearly not cut out for 3 mile 2 furlongs at Cheltenham. I was stunned when I saw quotes of 20/1 yesterday and even more surprised to see it had been cut across the board to a best price 16s this morning. I had assumed they would wait for Punchestown where he won a novice chase last year (after being kept fresh).
Apart from almost definetly not being suited by the track the only piece of form that even puts him in the Gold Cup ball park is yesterdays race. It was run at a crawl with China Rock's jockey ruining his chance by setting sail for home far too early. Joncol is a decent enough yardstick but obviously well short of Gold Cup class and you could make a solid case that he is going backwards this year. Of the others Made In Taipan who wants good ground and is essentially a handicapper was right in behind jumping the last.
Although there is no standout contender for the Gold Cup there are now several contenders that have shown they could run to a mark in the 170s. I'll be stunned if this horse is even placed.
In a sad reflection on Joe Public, I concede that the point about the price is probably well made and he could well be a solid trade if he is confirmed for the race(?)
Apart from almost definetly not being suited by the track the only piece of form that even puts him in the Gold Cup ball park is yesterdays race. It was run at a crawl with China Rock's jockey ruining his chance by setting sail for home far too early. Joncol is a decent enough yardstick but obviously well short of Gold Cup class and you could make a solid case that he is going backwards this year. Of the others Made In Taipan who wants good ground and is essentially a handicapper was right in behind jumping the last.
Although there is no standout contender for the Gold Cup there are now several contenders that have shown they could run to a mark in the 170s. I'll be stunned if this horse is even placed.
In a sad reflection on Joe Public, I concede that the point about the price is probably well made and he could well be a solid trade if he is confirmed for the race(?)
Whilst I've not checked since I looked yesterday from the price when compared to standard was one of the better ones of the day wasn't it.
You are taking a leap of faith in what Kempes can do at Chelts come March but I was impressed yesterday and the extra 2f and better ground are worth half a stone IMO on what he achieved yesterday. I know that isn't enough to win a GC but thats assuming Kempes ran the race of his life yesterday. It looked easy enough to me and I've watched it back a few times, he won that cosily yesterday. He could have a live chance at a reasonable price.
The only one above him that I'm even thinking about putting my money on at the moment is Denman. I have serious doubts about the others.
You are taking a leap of faith in what Kempes can do at Chelts come March but I was impressed yesterday and the extra 2f and better ground are worth half a stone IMO on what he achieved yesterday. I know that isn't enough to win a GC but thats assuming Kempes ran the race of his life yesterday. It looked easy enough to me and I've watched it back a few times, he won that cosily yesterday. He could have a live chance at a reasonable price.
The only one above him that I'm even thinking about putting my money on at the moment is Denman. I have serious doubts about the others.
Whilst I've not checked since I looked yesterday the time when compared to standard was one of the better ones of the day wasn't it?
You are taking a leap of faith in what Kempes can do at Chelts come March but I was impressed yesterday and the extra 2f and better ground are worth half a stone IMO on what he achieved yesterday. I know that isn't enough to win a GC but thats assuming Kempes ran the race of his life yesterday. It looked easy enough to me and I've watched it back a few times, he won that cosily. He could have a live chance at a reasonable price.
The only one above him that I'm even thinking about putting my money on at the moment is Denman. I have serious doubts about the others.
You are taking a leap of faith in what Kempes can do at Chelts come March but I was impressed yesterday and the extra 2f and better ground are worth half a stone IMO on what he achieved yesterday. I know that isn't enough to win a GC but thats assuming Kempes ran the race of his life yesterday. It looked easy enough to me and I've watched it back a few times, he won that cosily. He could have a live chance at a reasonable price.
The only one above him that I'm even thinking about putting my money on at the moment is Denman. I have serious doubts about the others.
yesterdays race was a grade2 as a grade 1 247 lol.if you cant see that your blind mate
this is a comical thread for two reasons
1. some people think kempes can actually win a gold cup
2. some ppl dont understand the meaning of flat bred. if you are such a person, dont get into breeding. kauto star, denman and imperial commander are NOT flat bred. they are out of jumps sires who ran on the flat, as do 99% or more of british stallions. enough said. if you dont understand then google the meaning of "gelding" which will give you a greater understanding of why the above is necessary. its a wonder the likes of kauto star arent retired to stud already
1. some people think kempes can actually win a gold cup
2. some ppl dont understand the meaning of flat bred. if you are such a person, dont get into breeding. kauto star, denman and imperial commander are NOT flat bred. they are out of jumps sires who ran on the flat, as do 99% or more of british stallions. enough said. if you dont understand then google the meaning of "gelding" which will give you a greater understanding of why the above is necessary. its a wonder the likes of kauto star arent retired to stud already
Everbody seems to know it all on here. Kempes for me is speculative but an improving horse that will be shorter on the day and wont mind pretty much any ground. That makes him a great antepost bet in my book.
How anyone can be so sure that Diamond Harry would thrash Kempes in a match bet is also beyond me, there looks very little in it. DH beat a 157 rated horse just over a length in receipt of a pound in the Henessey whilst Kempes beat a host of mid to high 150s horses by a pulling away 4.5 to 16 lengths off levels. There is simply not a lot in it and the prices of the two horses at the time the thread was started did not reflect their respective chances IMO.
How anyone can be so sure that Diamond Harry would thrash Kempes in a match bet is also beyond me, there looks very little in it. DH beat a 157 rated horse just over a length in receipt of a pound in the Henessey whilst Kempes beat a host of mid to high 150s horses by a pulling away 4.5 to 16 lengths off levels. There is simply not a lot in it and the prices of the two horses at the time the thread was started did not reflect their respective chances IMO.
barry geraghty said in his blog for atr..."The winner, Diamond Harry, was still travelling really well two out and my horse had to work hard to get near him.
People have said that we might have beaten him but for the mistake but I think we’d have needed another half dozen lengths up our sleeve to get past him. The winner’s gone up 16lb and Burton Port’s up 14lb".
People have said that we might have beaten him but for the mistake but I think we’d have needed another half dozen lengths up our sleeve to get past him. The winner’s gone up 16lb and Burton Port’s up 14lb".
anybody care to mention a decent horse that would entitle kempes to win a gold cup??
War Of Attrition was rated just 157 when he tackled his last race before winning the Gold Cup. He was completely unexposed over 3miles plus and went on to win the GC. I appreciate he wasn't going on to tackle Imperial Commander et al but it still makes a valid point. Kempes has won two good but not great 3mile chases and unfortunatly unseated in the one race that could have told us a bit more about how good he is. He is without doubt unexposed at 3miles plus and anybody that just wants to discount him is welcome to their opinion but I don't share it.
The Gold Cup is wide open, but it's not that wide open. This thread is one of the more ridiculous i've seen on here. There are question marks over all of the runners, but most don't have the question mark of track, trip and ability. 4/1 a place is such poor value it makes me want to vom.
Where's this 190 Kauto Star then??, He's now a 174 and lower with Timeform
Anyone that writes the word vom makes me want to do exactly that![;)]
To be serious for a second, I think the weakness of the leading contenders is going to point people in the direction of runners like Kempes, Pandorama (if it gets there), Diamond Harry etc Gashboy. It looks exactly like last years race in that it's ripe for one of the lesser lights to take up the reigns and become the next star. It's a race to have a small bet on something at a fair price, sit back and enjoy. If Denman or Kauto win I'll be cheering just the same as if something I've backed wins and if IC wins whilst it wont have the same feeling it'll still be a good spectacle. I just dont think I could take the stress of backing any of them.
That said if I'm having a good week and IC or Denman look good in the paddock I could see myself backing one of them. It's a long time until GC day yet and still plenty of thinking time ahead.
To be serious for a second, I think the weakness of the leading contenders is going to point people in the direction of runners like Kempes, Pandorama (if it gets there), Diamond Harry etc Gashboy. It looks exactly like last years race in that it's ripe for one of the lesser lights to take up the reigns and become the next star. It's a race to have a small bet on something at a fair price, sit back and enjoy. If Denman or Kauto win I'll be cheering just the same as if something I've backed wins and if IC wins whilst it wont have the same feeling it'll still be a good spectacle. I just dont think I could take the stress of backing any of them.
That said if I'm having a good week and IC or Denman look good in the paddock I could see myself backing one of them. It's a long time until GC day yet and still plenty of thinking time ahead.
Well saying that all these horses have so much to find for a start
Kauto's not a 190 oss
Denmans won one race in two years
Imperial Commanders had one run in a year beating Tidal Bay a couple of lengths
Kauto's not a 190 oss
Denmans won one race in two years
Imperial Commanders had one run in a year beating Tidal Bay a couple of lengths
247lol
Hold on,flat bred,wtf you on about?wasnt denmans sire,presenting 3rd in the derby?.
Wasnt kauto stars sire,village star 5th in the arc de triomphe?.
Didnt flemensfirth,imperial commanders sire,win the group 2 prix dollar twice?.!!!!!!!
Would you like to elaborate on what you mean FLAT bred,or shall i send you a tee shirt with the words emblazened on it"please god help me to keep my big mouth shut till i actually know wehat im talking about"!!!!!
the boys in the breeding forum would have a good laugh at this post.
Hold on,flat bred,wtf you on about?wasnt denmans sire,presenting 3rd in the derby?.
Wasnt kauto stars sire,village star 5th in the arc de triomphe?.
Didnt flemensfirth,imperial commanders sire,win the group 2 prix dollar twice?.!!!!!!!
Would you like to elaborate on what you mean FLAT bred,or shall i send you a tee shirt with the words emblazened on it"please god help me to keep my big mouth shut till i actually know wehat im talking about"!!!!!
the boys in the breeding forum would have a good laugh at this post.
vinnie...22.44 post. thoroughly comical he is. tbh i dont find it surprising that people who dont understand the concept of breeding also think kempes has a good chance in the gold cup
^^^^
You seem to know everthing revedesivola.
Breeding is one angle on any given race but it's not the be all and end all. Horses with unfashionable or unsuitable breeding can and do win big races.
It's worth pointing out that highlighting a horse as a decent antepost bet is different to saying a horse will win the race.
You seem to know everthing revedesivola.
Breeding is one angle on any given race but it's not the be all and end all. Horses with unfashionable or unsuitable breeding can and do win big races.
It's worth pointing out that highlighting a horse as a decent antepost bet is different to saying a horse will win the race.
Did Kauto Star have the breeding to do what he did?
you ill notice on closer inspection that i said "has a good chance" as opposed to winning which is what you thought i said. i didnt and dont question that unfashionable or flat bred horses win big races. i apologise as you seem to take offence from my words. the purpose of highlighting the breeding was that a poster reacted confrontationally to someone suggesting that flat bred horses hadnt won the gold cup in a long time. this was of course correct and 247 tried to belittle it with incorrect information, namely that denman, kauto star and imperial commander are flat bred
ffs,zilzal,kauto was fkin rated 190 going into the king george,ffs,fkin read,its since dropped 16 lb to 174.
cruise d,you couldnt read the handicap if it came up and smacked you in the head ,ffs,denman was rated 182 going into the hennessy,it finished ahead of three 156 rated horses,so it appears he ran up to somewhere near his best,as the first 2 who were 15 lengths ahead(approx),in receipt of 26 lb & 25 lb were obviously better than their marks of 156&157,indeed diamond harry has a new assessment of 168(not good enough to win a gold cup,unless he improves significantly again,but he looked flat to the boards to me,but maybe he could be the 1st horse ever to improve 14lbs in a field)
BREESDING AND GELDING FOR THE UNINITIATED.[;)]
Jump racing is only taken seriously in Britain, Ireland and France. In Ireland the sport is far more popular than flat racing, while in England it is more balanced, but the different seasons mean that most fans of the sport can enjoy both forms of racing.
The horses come from a variety of sources, with many being former FLAT horses, while others are BRED for jumping. National Hunt horses do not have to be thoroughbreds, but MOST are, and the ones who are not tend to be FRENCH. Many of the future stars of the sport come through Point-to-Pointing. The name reflects its hunting origins, from which the sport developed. The same skills of jumping ability and speed are required to succeed at both.
All modern Thoroughbreds trace back to three stallions imported into England from the Middle East in the late 17th and early 18th centuries: the Byerley Turk (1680s), the Darley Arabian (1704), and the Godolphin Arabian (1729).[17][18] Other stallions of oriental breeding were less influential, but still made noteworthy contributions to the breed. These included the Alcock Arabian,[19] D'Arcy's White Turk, Leedes Arabian, and Curwen's Bay Barb.[20][21][notes 1] Another was the Brownlow Turk, who, among other attributes, is thought to be largely responsible for the gray coat color in Thoroughbreds.[19] The addition of Arabian bloodlines to the native English mares ultimately led to the creation of the General Stud Book (GSB) in 1791 and the practice of official registration of horses.
Each of the three major foundation sires was, coincidentally, the ancestor of a grandson or great-great-grandson who was the only male descendant to perpetuate each respective horse's male line: Matchem was the only descendant of his grandsire, the Godolphin Arabian, to maintain a male line to the present;[22] the Byerly Turk's male line was preserved by Herod (or King Herod), a great-great-grandson;[23] and the male line of the Darley Arabian owes its existence to great-great-grandson Eclipse, who was the dominant racehorse of his day and never defeated.[20][24] One genetic study indicates that 95% of all male Thoroughbreds trace their direct male line (via the Y chromosome) to the Darley Arabian.[25] However, in modern Thoroughbred pedigrees, most horses have more crosses to the Godolphin Arabian (13.8%) than to the Darley Arabian (6.5%) when all lines of descent (maternal and paternal) are considered. Further, as a percentage of contributions to current Thoroughbred bloodlines, Curwen's Bay Barb (4.2%) appears more often than the Byerly Turk (3.3%). The majority of modern Thoroughbreds alive today trace to a total of only 27 or 28 stallions from the 18th and 19th centuries.[25][26]
Although the Thoroughbred is primarily bred for racing, the breed is also used for show jumping and combined training because of its athleticism, and many retired and retrained race horses become fine family riding horses, dressage horses, and youth show horses. The larger horses are sought after for hunter/jumper and dressage competitions, whereas the smaller horses are in demand as polo ponies.
Thoroughbreds are often crossed with horses of other breeds to create new breeds or improve existing ones. They have been influential on many modern breeds, including the American Quarter Horse,[111] the Standardbred,[112] and possibly the Morgan, a breed that went on to influence many of the gaited breeds in North America.[113] Other common crosses with the Thoroughbred include crossbreeding with Arabian bloodlines to produce the Anglo-Arabian[114] as well as with the Irish Draught to produce the Irish Sport Horse.[115] Thoroughbreds are often crossed with various Warmblood breeds due to their refinement and performance capabilities.[116]
Although Thoroughbreds are SEEN in the HUNTER-JUMPER world and in other disciplines, modern Thoroughbreds are primarily bred for SPEED, and racehorses have a very high rate of accidents as well as other health problems.
Under British National Hunt racing (i.e. Steeplechase) RULES, to minimize the health and safety risk for horses, riders, and spectators, nearly all participating horses are geldings.[12] On the other hand, in Europe, geldings are excluded from many of the most prestigious flat races including the Classics and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.[13] In North American Thoroughbred racing, geldings, if otherwise qualified by age, winnings, or experience, are allowed in races open to intact males.
cruise d,you couldnt read the handicap if it came up and smacked you in the head ,ffs,denman was rated 182 going into the hennessy,it finished ahead of three 156 rated horses,so it appears he ran up to somewhere near his best,as the first 2 who were 15 lengths ahead(approx),in receipt of 26 lb & 25 lb were obviously better than their marks of 156&157,indeed diamond harry has a new assessment of 168(not good enough to win a gold cup,unless he improves significantly again,but he looked flat to the boards to me,but maybe he could be the 1st horse ever to improve 14lbs in a field)
BREESDING AND GELDING FOR THE UNINITIATED.[;)]
Jump racing is only taken seriously in Britain, Ireland and France. In Ireland the sport is far more popular than flat racing, while in England it is more balanced, but the different seasons mean that most fans of the sport can enjoy both forms of racing.
The horses come from a variety of sources, with many being former FLAT horses, while others are BRED for jumping. National Hunt horses do not have to be thoroughbreds, but MOST are, and the ones who are not tend to be FRENCH. Many of the future stars of the sport come through Point-to-Pointing. The name reflects its hunting origins, from which the sport developed. The same skills of jumping ability and speed are required to succeed at both.
All modern Thoroughbreds trace back to three stallions imported into England from the Middle East in the late 17th and early 18th centuries: the Byerley Turk (1680s), the Darley Arabian (1704), and the Godolphin Arabian (1729).[17][18] Other stallions of oriental breeding were less influential, but still made noteworthy contributions to the breed. These included the Alcock Arabian,[19] D'Arcy's White Turk, Leedes Arabian, and Curwen's Bay Barb.[20][21][notes 1] Another was the Brownlow Turk, who, among other attributes, is thought to be largely responsible for the gray coat color in Thoroughbreds.[19] The addition of Arabian bloodlines to the native English mares ultimately led to the creation of the General Stud Book (GSB) in 1791 and the practice of official registration of horses.
Each of the three major foundation sires was, coincidentally, the ancestor of a grandson or great-great-grandson who was the only male descendant to perpetuate each respective horse's male line: Matchem was the only descendant of his grandsire, the Godolphin Arabian, to maintain a male line to the present;[22] the Byerly Turk's male line was preserved by Herod (or King Herod), a great-great-grandson;[23] and the male line of the Darley Arabian owes its existence to great-great-grandson Eclipse, who was the dominant racehorse of his day and never defeated.[20][24] One genetic study indicates that 95% of all male Thoroughbreds trace their direct male line (via the Y chromosome) to the Darley Arabian.[25] However, in modern Thoroughbred pedigrees, most horses have more crosses to the Godolphin Arabian (13.8%) than to the Darley Arabian (6.5%) when all lines of descent (maternal and paternal) are considered. Further, as a percentage of contributions to current Thoroughbred bloodlines, Curwen's Bay Barb (4.2%) appears more often than the Byerly Turk (3.3%). The majority of modern Thoroughbreds alive today trace to a total of only 27 or 28 stallions from the 18th and 19th centuries.[25][26]
Although the Thoroughbred is primarily bred for racing, the breed is also used for show jumping and combined training because of its athleticism, and many retired and retrained race horses become fine family riding horses, dressage horses, and youth show horses. The larger horses are sought after for hunter/jumper and dressage competitions, whereas the smaller horses are in demand as polo ponies.
Thoroughbreds are often crossed with horses of other breeds to create new breeds or improve existing ones. They have been influential on many modern breeds, including the American Quarter Horse,[111] the Standardbred,[112] and possibly the Morgan, a breed that went on to influence many of the gaited breeds in North America.[113] Other common crosses with the Thoroughbred include crossbreeding with Arabian bloodlines to produce the Anglo-Arabian[114] as well as with the Irish Draught to produce the Irish Sport Horse.[115] Thoroughbreds are often crossed with various Warmblood breeds due to their refinement and performance capabilities.[116]
Although Thoroughbreds are SEEN in the HUNTER-JUMPER world and in other disciplines, modern Thoroughbreds are primarily bred for SPEED, and racehorses have a very high rate of accidents as well as other health problems.
Under British National Hunt racing (i.e. Steeplechase) RULES, to minimize the health and safety risk for horses, riders, and spectators, nearly all participating horses are geldings.[12] On the other hand, in Europe, geldings are excluded from many of the most prestigious flat races including the Classics and the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.[13] In North American Thoroughbred racing, geldings, if otherwise qualified by age, winnings, or experience, are allowed in races open to intact males.
So what are most jump horses in the uk?
Flat bred thoroughbreds that have been gelded for the purpose of national hunt racing.
Pipe and smoke coming to mind here[:D]
Flat bred thoroughbreds that have been gelded for the purpose of national hunt racing.
Pipe and smoke coming to mind here[:D]
If a horse is flat bred then it has been bred in order to run on the flat and the same with jumps. As someone posted earlier 99% of stallions are flat horses, but the ones who stay further on the flat tend to be branded as 'jumps sires'. I point you towards http://www.coolmore.com/roster.php?list=national_hunt
- these are obviously all flat horses, some like Scorpion who is a Coronation Cup winner. The mare naturally has a crucial influence, as does the damsire. Kempes for example is out of a Royal Academy (champion sprinter) mare by Intikhab (miler), who is known to produce precocious 2yo. Kempes has clearly turned into a decent staying jumper, but there would have to be serious question marks regarding his effectiveness in a race such as the Gold Cup on breeding grounds (I suspect no horse with such a precocious pedigree has ever even placed in a Gold Cup). Whereas, yes Kauto Star's sire finished fifth in the arc, but his dam side is far more stamina laden. Therefore, he was bred for the purpose of jumping.
It's all pretty much straightforward really.
- these are obviously all flat horses, some like Scorpion who is a Coronation Cup winner. The mare naturally has a crucial influence, as does the damsire. Kempes for example is out of a Royal Academy (champion sprinter) mare by Intikhab (miler), who is known to produce precocious 2yo. Kempes has clearly turned into a decent staying jumper, but there would have to be serious question marks regarding his effectiveness in a race such as the Gold Cup on breeding grounds (I suspect no horse with such a precocious pedigree has ever even placed in a Gold Cup). Whereas, yes Kauto Star's sire finished fifth in the arc, but his dam side is far more stamina laden. Therefore, he was bred for the purpose of jumping.
It's all pretty much straightforward really.
dr devious was sired by a sprinter but won a derby,i see what you mean,self explanetory really.
Cheers for that.[:D]
Cheers for that.[:D]
there are obviously exceptions to some cases, hence the running of flat horses over jumps in the first place[:)]
Think we are going to have to start a whole new thread on this subject,we might learn something,lol.
No its ok,dont admit you were partially wrong,MOST jump horses are thoroughbreds,hence they are really flat horses that have had the tackle removed.
what makes you think that just because they are thoroughbred theyare bred for the flat?
247, comedy is obviously more youre thing than breeding. hilarious
give it a rest reve , you're talking **** now about something you no nowt about.
rozel, keep logged in as 247, youre confusing me. breeding is not hard. it has been explained so no point explaining it again. youre making me look like im a w@nker now because its frustrating trying to explain it. alls i came on here to say is that i think kempes has next to no chance. thats it, im open to being proved wrong when chelters comes around 
247lol Date Joined: 16 Feb 06
Add contact | Send message When: 14 Feb 11 00:44
ffs,zilzal,kauto was fkin rated 190 going into the king george,ffs,fkin read,its since dropped 16 lb to 174.
cruise d,you couldnt read the handicap if it came up and smacked you in the head ,ffs,denman was rated 182 going into the hennessy,it finished ahead of three 156 rated horses,so it appears he ran up to somewhere near his best,as the first 2 who were 15 lengths ahead(approx),in receipt of 26 lb & 25 lb were obviously better than their marks of 156&157
Some horses carry wait differently to others. Reading the form of the Henessey in respect of Denman's 3rd is tricky at best. He has shown in the past and is the type of horse that can carry weight far better than others and so reading a handicap off the back of what Denman achieved in the race could be flawed. Only one of the top 6 finishers in the Henessey has raced since, The Tother One finished half a length behind Denman and went on to get beat 45 lenghts by Neptunes Collonges in the Argento. It's too ealy to read the form in such a black and White fashion as you have 247. The handicapper has to evaluate every race on their individual merit, we don't we can look at the bigger picture.
Off the back of their last 2 runs there isn't much between DH and Kempes, thats hardly a revelation and there is no need to start going off on one. I've been reading handicaps and doing OK at the game for a fair while. What's with your tone and attitude anyway? Too many top decks?
Add contact | Send message When: 14 Feb 11 00:44
ffs,zilzal,kauto was fkin rated 190 going into the king george,ffs,fkin read,its since dropped 16 lb to 174.
cruise d,you couldnt read the handicap if it came up and smacked you in the head ,ffs,denman was rated 182 going into the hennessy,it finished ahead of three 156 rated horses,so it appears he ran up to somewhere near his best,as the first 2 who were 15 lengths ahead(approx),in receipt of 26 lb & 25 lb were obviously better than their marks of 156&157
Some horses carry wait differently to others. Reading the form of the Henessey in respect of Denman's 3rd is tricky at best. He has shown in the past and is the type of horse that can carry weight far better than others and so reading a handicap off the back of what Denman achieved in the race could be flawed. Only one of the top 6 finishers in the Henessey has raced since, The Tother One finished half a length behind Denman and went on to get beat 45 lenghts by Neptunes Collonges in the Argento. It's too ealy to read the form in such a black and White fashion as you have 247. The handicapper has to evaluate every race on their individual merit, we don't we can look at the bigger picture.
Off the back of their last 2 runs there isn't much between DH and Kempes, thats hardly a revelation and there is no need to start going off on one. I've been reading handicaps and doing OK at the game for a fair while. What's with your tone and attitude anyway? Too many top decks?
Can't belive he's 16/1 he wouldn't get the trip in a horse box. This is Chetneham not Leapordstown and a slow gallop through lose ground.
Even if he did get the trip he'd have to improve more than a stone and you can bet AP would ride Denman if he had the choice before he'd ride him.
I'd rather be backing Pandorama at 20/1 and taking a chance on him acting on good ground as he's clearly a much more talented horse who will stay.
Good on anyone who took 50/1. I'd be laying him, taking the money and running if I had.
Even if he did get the trip he'd have to improve more than a stone and you can bet AP would ride Denman if he had the choice before he'd ride him.
I'd rather be backing Pandorama at 20/1 and taking a chance on him acting on good ground as he's clearly a much more talented horse who will stay.
Good on anyone who took 50/1. I'd be laying him, taking the money and running if I had.
Rondetto whilst I agree with what you are saying in some ways it is not as certain you make it out to be. Granted the GC will test Kempes stamina far more than anything so far, he has stayed on very well in his 2 compelted races at 3 miles or so. He isn't sure to stay but he runs like he will, he should also be able to keep the pace in the early part of the race as he has demonstrated good speed over 2 miles in his earlier career both over hurdles with Hurricane Fly and over fences with Golden Silver.
Pandorama's Lexus race reads similarly to Kempes on Saturday, they both beat Joncol and The Listener by similar distances. I know Glencove Marina was closer on Saturday but overall the form was fairly similar. I do like Pandorama and I think he has a shout, the only worry is even if he gets there his preperation is not going to be the best and that would put me off. It's a real shame Kempes unseated in the Lexus because we would all know a lot more either way.
As for AP choosing Denman if he had the choice, you are spot on I'm sure he would but that doesn't mean that after the race he will be proved right. I'm pretty sure he chose Binocular over Captain Cee Bee in the supreme for example. If you asked Ruby last year whether he would rather have ridden IC or Kauto we all know he'd have chosen Kauto, it doesn't mean that it would have been the right decision. The fact that AP would find it hard to get off a horse that finished second last year and has proven class over a horse that is a little bit of an unknown and more of an outsider is hardly surprising is it?
Pandorama's Lexus race reads similarly to Kempes on Saturday, they both beat Joncol and The Listener by similar distances. I know Glencove Marina was closer on Saturday but overall the form was fairly similar. I do like Pandorama and I think he has a shout, the only worry is even if he gets there his preperation is not going to be the best and that would put me off. It's a real shame Kempes unseated in the Lexus because we would all know a lot more either way.
As for AP choosing Denman if he had the choice, you are spot on I'm sure he would but that doesn't mean that after the race he will be proved right. I'm pretty sure he chose Binocular over Captain Cee Bee in the supreme for example. If you asked Ruby last year whether he would rather have ridden IC or Kauto we all know he'd have chosen Kauto, it doesn't mean that it would have been the right decision. The fact that AP would find it hard to get off a horse that finished second last year and has proven class over a horse that is a little bit of an unknown and more of an outsider is hardly surprising is it?
sorry that was supposed to say "anybody care to mention a decent horse that kempes beat, that would entitle him to win a gold cup??
First off Cruise Kauto Star is a freak. The reason I say that is you don't get many of him to the pound and Kempes would have to be
in the same mould. No as good but as versatile and I think he's already reached te limit of his versatilty.
You said it yourself he showed good speed against Hurricane Fly and that is the biggest telltale sign of all.
Horses who are very quick over two miles unless they are Dester Orchid or Kauto Star very seldom stay extreme distances.
You won't get any race more extreme than the Gold Cup run at pace especially when something like Denman suddenly injects 5mp on to the speed you were already finding hard.
It's those sudden inmjections of pace and the undualtions that find out the non stayers very very quickly and why so many very good horses get tailed off.
Starluck is a classic example of a horse who 2 miles plus, he can quicken at the nd but put him in race where the pace is strong (Overturn) and add an injection of pace (Binocular) and he'll fold like a pack of cards because he doesn't really stay in top class company.
Kempes isn't bred to get 3 miles but he does in races like we just saw but it's lake adding 2 miles on to that when you take that massive leap into the gold cup.
Pandorma unlike Kempes IMO has the stamp of a Gold Cup horse. He's got a very high cruising speed and a remarkable turn of foot for a horse who looks every bit a stayer.
Why would you worry about his preperation? he's won 9 out of his 11 races which I'd say took a fair bit of getting right.
If Noel Meade has one good enough, like Pandorama or Realt Dubh they very seldom let you down.
in the same mould. No as good but as versatile and I think he's already reached te limit of his versatilty.
You said it yourself he showed good speed against Hurricane Fly and that is the biggest telltale sign of all.
Horses who are very quick over two miles unless they are Dester Orchid or Kauto Star very seldom stay extreme distances.
You won't get any race more extreme than the Gold Cup run at pace especially when something like Denman suddenly injects 5mp on to the speed you were already finding hard.
It's those sudden inmjections of pace and the undualtions that find out the non stayers very very quickly and why so many very good horses get tailed off.
Starluck is a classic example of a horse who 2 miles plus, he can quicken at the nd but put him in race where the pace is strong (Overturn) and add an injection of pace (Binocular) and he'll fold like a pack of cards because he doesn't really stay in top class company.
Kempes isn't bred to get 3 miles but he does in races like we just saw but it's lake adding 2 miles on to that when you take that massive leap into the gold cup.
Pandorma unlike Kempes IMO has the stamp of a Gold Cup horse. He's got a very high cruising speed and a remarkable turn of foot for a horse who looks every bit a stayer.
Why would you worry about his preperation? he's won 9 out of his 11 races which I'd say took a fair bit of getting right.
If Noel Meade has one good enough, like Pandorama or Realt Dubh they very seldom let you down.
i think pandorama's prep is a worry if they felt he needed that race to have him spot on for the gold cup.
but saying that noel meade's festival record is desperate at best, and i think that is becaue he subjects his horses to big races thro the season and has them over cooked by the time cheltenham comes along. so pandorama missing the grade 1 this weekend and going there fresher might be a blessing in disguise.
but saying that noel meade's festival record is desperate at best, and i think that is becaue he subjects his horses to big races thro the season and has them over cooked by the time cheltenham comes along. so pandorama missing the grade 1 this weekend and going there fresher might be a blessing in disguise.
Rondetto much respect for getting your well explained opinion across without just bleeting drivel like some others may do. I mentioned Kauto not as a comparsion to any other horse but more about how and why jockies choose to ride any given horse rightly or wrongly.
I agree with all that you say about the GC and maybe I am taking what I see in Kempes too literally. But with so much doubt in my mind about IC, Kauto and Denman at this stage I'm happy to back Kempes antepost pretty sure that If he turns up I'll end up with around a 10/1 free bet at the odds I have backed him at and then decide whether to play on any other horse when I know more about how they have preped and what they look like in the paddock etc. I really believe Kempes is a live outsider and all the things you mention are likely to either see him pulled up after 2 and a half miles or will bring out the best in him and could see him challenging. I think it'll be the latter but you scenario is perfectly plausable.
I agree with all that you say about the GC and maybe I am taking what I see in Kempes too literally. But with so much doubt in my mind about IC, Kauto and Denman at this stage I'm happy to back Kempes antepost pretty sure that If he turns up I'll end up with around a 10/1 free bet at the odds I have backed him at and then decide whether to play on any other horse when I know more about how they have preped and what they look like in the paddock etc. I really believe Kempes is a live outsider and all the things you mention are likely to either see him pulled up after 2 and a half miles or will bring out the best in him and could see him challenging. I think it'll be the latter but you scenario is perfectly plausable.
ah the poor oul listener,glad they've retired him now though.
weird allooks great value to me in the gold cup,flopped in the hennessey,but so did pandorama and look what hes done since,has had a breathing op recently plus also has form around cheltenham,he ticks a lot of boxes and is way over priced at 50s,i can sense an upset this year (although not one of kempes proportions)
WEIRD AL to win the gold cup
id def bet wierd al before kempes. wud love a match bet
247 and Rozelkid (well named, I assume we are dealing with a child) serve to highlight why I rarely frequent the forum anymore. There are too few good uns like cruise d on the go these days.
Good luck with your Kempes project, I see your angle. The multiple morons presenting opinions as facts will struggle tho.
Good luck with your Kempes project, I see your angle. The multiple morons presenting opinions as facts will struggle tho.
Thanks BornToWin. I must be honest I've been kicking around the forums to a small degree for about the last ten years (I started a new account in 2004 cos all my cards had expired and I couldn't work out how to remove them at the time to set up a new card), it has always felt the same to me. The normal antepost section has proved the best forum over the last year or so IMO. You get more sense there than in most places. Some decent views everywhere but you have to wade through drunks and people with multiple usernames talking to each other to find them sometimes.
Rozel just likes to wind up the idiots on here,as i do myself,sometimes.
Not sure why i post on these forums and get into stupid arguements,to let off steam i think,but can be quite funny sometimes,well myself and rozel think so.
But also like to pass on a bit of knowledge,which is difficult when your dealing with clueless numnuts.
Fact,kauoto star WAS(being the operative word here)a freak,hes not running to his old level anymore,and wont win the gold cup.
Diamond harry if you at anytime decide to watch all videos of him,does i think like Newbury better than Cheltenham.
If you look at Denmans form in relation to the weights he has carried,ide say his rating assessments are pretty accurate,after all,the guys that do the ratngs are professionals,unlike yourself.
Assessing ratings is not enough to decipher a horses chance though,you have to conclude as to wether he/she will act on the track and the going(very important).
So when you use all that information and come up withan idea,get back to me.
Do i have any idea what will win the gold cup?yes,but im not putting hours of work in to post in on here for free,well not just yet anyway(filling the boots).
But 168 rated horses dont win gold cups nowdays,think the last 3 were rated 174,176&177,so harrys 6/7lb shy.
Did i say Kempes would win?no,what i actually said earlier,was i would rather back one going the right way(Kempes)than 2 going the wrong way,kind of makes sense.
Have i backed Kempes?no,but he may carry a few sheckles as a saver,it wins in the STYLE of a good horse,but 18.5 isnt much value for something that APPARENTLY has to much to find on the book.
But sticking the nose up at J P mcmanus owned horses isnt very clever,after all the guys had some 30 odd winners at Cheltenham i do believe,so he does tend to buy the right ones,and thats not luck by the way.
Its pointless saying things like Weird al will win(doesnt stay),or diamond harry will win(only rated 168)if you dont assess the chances of the others in detail.
Ive just given you a few solid reasons why those wont win,we'll get into that breeding thing another time[;)]
Not sure why i post on these forums and get into stupid arguements,to let off steam i think,but can be quite funny sometimes,well myself and rozel think so.
But also like to pass on a bit of knowledge,which is difficult when your dealing with clueless numnuts.
Fact,kauoto star WAS(being the operative word here)a freak,hes not running to his old level anymore,and wont win the gold cup.
Diamond harry if you at anytime decide to watch all videos of him,does i think like Newbury better than Cheltenham.
If you look at Denmans form in relation to the weights he has carried,ide say his rating assessments are pretty accurate,after all,the guys that do the ratngs are professionals,unlike yourself.
Assessing ratings is not enough to decipher a horses chance though,you have to conclude as to wether he/she will act on the track and the going(very important).
So when you use all that information and come up withan idea,get back to me.
Do i have any idea what will win the gold cup?yes,but im not putting hours of work in to post in on here for free,well not just yet anyway(filling the boots).
But 168 rated horses dont win gold cups nowdays,think the last 3 were rated 174,176&177,so harrys 6/7lb shy.
Did i say Kempes would win?no,what i actually said earlier,was i would rather back one going the right way(Kempes)than 2 going the wrong way,kind of makes sense.
Have i backed Kempes?no,but he may carry a few sheckles as a saver,it wins in the STYLE of a good horse,but 18.5 isnt much value for something that APPARENTLY has to much to find on the book.
But sticking the nose up at J P mcmanus owned horses isnt very clever,after all the guys had some 30 odd winners at Cheltenham i do believe,so he does tend to buy the right ones,and thats not luck by the way.
Its pointless saying things like Weird al will win(doesnt stay),or diamond harry will win(only rated 168)if you dont assess the chances of the others in detail.
Ive just given you a few solid reasons why those wont win,we'll get into that breeding thing another time[;)]
247lol FOYDC nobody cares for your clueless opinions,hth
In my best Harry Hill singing voice....
Most arrogant poster of the week!!!...
By: 247lol Date Joined: 16 Feb 06
Add contact | Send message When: 15 Feb 11 02:34
Do i have any idea what will win the gold cup?yes,but im not putting hours of work in to post in on here for free,well not just yet anyway(filling the boots).
Most arrogant poster of the week!!!...
By: 247lol Date Joined: 16 Feb 06
Add contact | Send message When: 15 Feb 11 02:34
Do i have any idea what will win the gold cup?yes,but im not putting hours of work in to post in on here for free,well not just yet anyway(filling the boots).
yeah , im loving it ....haaaaa, i dont have an idea of the Gold Cup winner, I KNOW THE GOLD CUP WINNER.
so accept it my slaves...oh and crab...are you fu**ing stupid? how many times about diamond harry ffs
so accept it my slaves...oh and crab...are you fu**ing stupid? how many times about diamond harry ffs
Gutted for all DH backers. Nothing worse than not gettin a run for your money.
Just thought I'd drag this back to the first page for a spell. Kempes is now best priced 12/1 with the bookies. That's about what I thought/hoped he would start the day at so it's looking like a value bet at the moment. I have also backed Pandorama now at 20/1 after the news about his last piece of work the other day. I expect Pandorama's price to shorten less until the off unless we get some news about the weather being bad, a good ground GC could see Kempes go off at something silly like 8/1.
Just thought I'd drag this back to the first page for a spell. Kempes is now best priced 12/1 with the bookies. That's about what I thought/hoped he would start the day at so it's looking like a value bet at the moment. I have also backed Pandorama now at 20/1 after the news about his last piece of work the other day. I expect Pandorama's price to shorten less until the off unless we get some news about the weather being bad, a good ground GC could see Kempes go off at something silly like 8/1.
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