Cheltenham Festival
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15 Jan 11
16:11
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14 Oct 06
They say he's as good as ever at home, but I thought he showed his age today.
It reminded me of a boxer towards the end of their career, they just get old over the course of one fight. They can train as well as ever but when they get in the ring its just not there anymore.
I hope they retire him though I don't think they will. This worries me because of the way he can crash thru fences when under pressure. For me he is certain to come under pressure in the Gold Cup, I just can't see any reason to run him. He's a great who is now old and deserves a long retirement.
What do the rest of you think?
It reminded me of a boxer towards the end of their career, they just get old over the course of one fight. They can train as well as ever but when they get in the ring its just not there anymore.
I hope they retire him though I don't think they will. This worries me because of the way he can crash thru fences when under pressure. For me he is certain to come under pressure in the Gold Cup, I just can't see any reason to run him. He's a great who is now old and deserves a long retirement.
What do the rest of you think?
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Replies: 91
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It's only one bad performance. He deserves to run in the Gold Cup and be retired after that whatever the result.
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of course you'll get both sides of the fence here, but im with you im afraid
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imo- kauto will be back, was never travelling today TM never got the horse in a rhythm like ruby or others do, my main blame goes to AP done the same on Denman asking for big jumps when these types of horses jump themseles, hes not used to riding top class chasers, hurdle different matter, but hes not used to this sort of horse over fences
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CV I know how you feel about Kauto and I feel the similarly, but he's gone. he can't produce the level of performance needed to win a Gold Cup so why run him. I appreciate it's only one run, but there was nothing there today yet at home he's as good as ever. It's time to retire him.
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It seems inevitable that Gold Cup and then retirement. I cannot see why a run which should have been 2nd in a King George means you have to retire him now...doesnt make sense unless he was injured
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especially given nicholls stanle is in shocking form, he's had 1 winner I think in the past week.
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I disagree denman85, Ap not at fault today, I think thats as goods as Kauto is now (tho I don't want to believe it). It's too easy to blame McCoy. FWIW I was concerned about how his style would match up with Kauto, but I don't think he did much if anything wrong today. I don't think you can say with much confidence that if Ruby was riding the result would have been different
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i just thought McCoy never let the horse do the jumping like ruby does, several times he was pushed into fences when kautos style has never been like throughout itsd career, have a feeling ruby will be cringe at way mcCoy got on with horse today! and btw i never backed Kauto so no sour grapes here
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Champion Chase
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Gold Cup then retirement
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Kauto looks as if when the pace is turned up after a even gallop(Gold Cup last year as well) that he cant cope with it that well and his jumping suffers, esp in softer ground. If you think back to the highlight of his career 09 KG, Nacarat and Ollie went some pace from the start and middle, as a consequence, Kauto was able to keep the same sort of cruising speed for a lot of the race.
Depends on the ground imo, if he were mine id only run him on good ground at Chelt, maybe id like to see him try and dictate a pace for himself, obv with Denman there that wouldnt be a option though |
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I think he should be given one more chance but after today's performance, I do fear it's looking like the end of the road for him. Father Time catches up with them all eventually
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can i just ask those who think he should run whether they think he will win and whether they will be backing him. Because if not why then should he run?
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Who cares if he's beaten in the Gold Cup. He owes us nothing. But he deserves to sign off in that race.
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CV, i wouldnt like to see him run on soft ground again, thats only my opinion though
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I'm not worried about his record or legacy, I'm worried about him getting round in one piece CV.
If he comes under pressure which he undoubtably he will make mistakes. Watching that fall from last years GC today again - I'm still not sure how he survived - I just don't see the point in running him when another bad mistake is a distinct possibility and certainly more likely than winning |
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gold cup/retirement and a long and happy life living comfortably in a field on clive smiths ample land for what has been probably the greatest national hunt horse in my lifetime,ran his heart out today but the torch i feel has been passed.
be nice to see him get his last run at the course he has given us so many heart stopping and jaw dropping moments and a great send off by those that not only applaude the winners but also those that have given us as fans of the sport so much pleasure be it watching or debating over the years. see you in march kauto and win lose or draw you'll be remembered as a winner  |
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i didnt bk Kauto bt watchin the races, thought McCoy didnt ride him that well. from the off he was thowing him over thm asking him to jump. didnt get the chance to get in2 a rhythm. shame
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10/1 cracking each way bet
Dont knock him hes been a brilliant horse |
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If ruby is fit then he should go for the gold cup.
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Not knocking him in the slightest Mrplacepot or questioning his brilliance, just think he's got old and would rather see him retired than run in a race he can't win IMO
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I pray they retire him - nothing can be gained from running in a Gold Cup IMO. I love him and it is time to call it a day, he's still high class and I am sure the stable form is not A1, but I would rather se this superstar parading in front of me in Club before the off than having another hard race in a race I just cannot see how he can win..
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Please retire him now Mr Smith.Going for another Gold Cup when he appears to be going at the game would be sheer greed on your behalf. You have had 6 great seasons with the horse and he owes you nothing. Get him out to grass now while you still can and we can all reflect on the greatest chaser we have all seen in the last 40 years.
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He finished third today beaten by Henderson horses, if we should retire Kauto after todays run then what should we do with the 6 that finished behind him. He is allowed a poor run and there may be excuses for today ie stable form, ground, jockey or beaten by 2 from a good stable. I cannot see him winning the GC but did not before today. Nicholls knows what he is doing and will do the right thing.
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If he had fallen today, I seriously think they would have called time and retired him immediately. However, the fact he didn't fall doesn't mean anything more to me because it was his usual guts and heart that got him out of the pickle once again. But to me it's just too much now. Fell at Gold Cup, almost fell today at Kempton a course he loves and breezes through previously like he's doing a mere workout. I love this horse more than anything and have done so since the very start but heart and guts is different when you are facing natural aging process and weaker strength.
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Don't misunderstand this, but I don't care as much about the others. That doesn't mean I wish them any ill, I don't. While most are 9 or 10 none are as old as Kauto, and if their connections believe they have something to offer, then its up to them. However not many are likely to run in the GC.
I view Kauto running again particularly in The GC as a big risk. He is showing his age, and with this is becoming more vulnerable. When he comes under pressure he makes big mistakes now and Cheltenham is less forgiving than Kempton. He was lucky to escape with his life last year, I don't want to see him make another potentially fatal error again, which given he will up against better horses at a course which suits him less is inevitable. |
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If any other horse than KS was the reigning James Nicholson Champion and came 3rd in the king George, there would be no debate.
He has earned the right to run in the Gold Cup. He has definitely earned the right to have what will probably turn out to be his swansong, at Prestbury Park, in mid-March, in front of 75,000 people. |
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^^^ oh not 75,000 this year was bad enough getting to the bog last year with 65,000
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Roger, I'm not saying he would be out of place or hasn't earnt it. He's earnt it more than any of them. All I'm saying is if he has little or no chance of winning why take the risk?
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Be a sad day when its announced
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Got to be the end of the road please let us remember the good times forget the arguement that he was third in a grade one king george, anyone who thinks kauto can recapture the brilliance of past years is deluding themselves he was a shadow of his former glory today he deserves a long happy and safe retirement
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You always want them to go out at their very best, which inevitably is very difficult to achieve. I wouldn't want to see him race again in the Gold Cup if the ground came up anything like it was for the 2010 renewal. On better ground, it would be good to see him again in a suitable final race in the spring, whether he wins or not.
I haven't looked at the sectional times yet, but Zilkal's point below about how the pace profile of the race today might have impacted on Kauto's performance is a useful point to make and something I would want to think more about. That may have been a more significant point than McCoy's riding. |
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I think he deserves to run in the gold cup for sure, today he was not happy from the off but the ground would not have been to his liking whereas the winner loved the ground and long runs jumping was infinitely better than it had been previously....the thing is he never ran a shocker but as we have got to know kauto we can see from early on if he is having one of his off days or not as there is usually niggles from the saddle early on as there was today.
Considering that in effect he was beaten from a long way out , to finish where he did deserves a lot of credit, bear in mind also that it is still debateable whether that performance from long run will be replicated anywhere else. Kauto is a great champion and as such deserves to carry on certainly to this years gold cup, we are not talking about a fallen hero who is being asked to carry on once he has fallen far below his great days...he's not as good true, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve his place in the field. |
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Personally I don't really want to spend time here speculating or discussing the horses future. The owner and trainer know what's best for him and they I'm sure they will make the correct decision. This is certainly the horses final season, he'll have one more race or he won't.
I think I'm gonna look to the future now, all good things must come to an end. They did for my last great hero, Moscow Flyer. The do for all heros. Even the best of them, the Great Kauto Star. |
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A point i made on another thread is that its hard to assess how much a horse may have regressed if it only has two or three runs a year
counting todays run and discounting Down Royal he's had 4 meaningful raves since his gold cup victory of 09 One Brilliant One Gutsy last two on easy ground have been below par pricewise using those you could put him at anything from 4-1 to 20-1 for chelt |
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whats to stop him running in next king george on much better ground?
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He'll be 12
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nothing, what would your Ante post price be though in oct for the event if he say was 3rd at Chelt though??
Its hard to say how a horse is until he comes off the bridle, he seemingly works well at home |