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Cheltenham Festival
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These 84 comments are related to the topic:
FAO: Arkle Fans - He was not the best pound for pound horse of all time ;-)
FAO: Arkle Fans - He was not the best pound for pound horse of all time ;-)
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Replies: 84
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Harchy i must admit i can't see it myself but maybe thats just me.perhaps strange was the wrong word to use just the derby and champion hurdle never seemed comparable to my way of thinking
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MC - it's just the way both of them absolutely powered away in the last 330 yds, so fresh & full of running.....leaving the impression that on the day, those two were unbeatable!
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They can only beat what's running against them and it wasn't much in Istabraq's time. The seventies stars would have thrashed Pridwell;)
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thats open to doubt in that bog!!
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ISTABRAQ IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME SO BE QUIET! YOUR BORING ME NOW! I STARTED WATCHING RACING IN 1997. I HAVE WATCHED ALL VIDEOS OF THESE ALL STARS AND I CAN TELL YOU NOW, THEY WERE SLOW! THE HORSES ARE ALOT FASTER THESE DAYS, MARK MY WORDS. FORGET WHAT YOUR DOPEY GRANDADS SAY, AND LISTEN TO ME.
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1997.
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Don't know why your laughing! You must be a right old, ugly git so shut up. When youu time has passed I will be still watching the stars of the next few decades :-)
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I hate Paul Nicholls. This is the kind of brainless twaat that has opened betfair accounts just to read his blog.
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this is about the most ridiculous post i've seen on here
trying to compare a 2 mile hurdler to 3 a mile plus chaser especially when istabraq beat trees how you can base your opinion on watching old videos that probably only show the last couple of furlongs, not knowing the form of the runners is mind boggling |
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Marvellous thread. Clueless Johnny come lately firing out ridiculous statements.
Buried in there is the comment that times are the only way to judge a horses greatness. From my point of view on the Istabraaq debate I think Morley Street would have given it a race on a flat track. Istabraaq certainly the best hurdler I have ever seen around Cheltenham. Second Alderbrook. I dont go back as far as Sea Pigeon or Golden Cygnet but they would be others. Persian War and Insurance can't be far behind. Mayflower - spend a tenner on Sean Magee's book about Arkle. Its a wonderful read with some fabulous illustrations and it explains very clearly the thought process behind why he is so highly rated and revered. It is beyond any rational dispute. I personally think Phil Smith has gone OTT about some of the current 3 milers and also Master Minded. When you have read it go to the first day of the Festival , get there at 10.30 and go and have a guiness in the Arke Bar before everyone else gets there. Simply go with it and luxuriate in the surroundinigs which are a fitting tribute to the greatest racehorse who ever lived. For what its worth Secretatriat greatest Flat horse ever. |
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Listen bird brains - Istabraq is/was a superstar. If he raced Arkle he would have smashed him for 6! So, be quiet and let me watch the racing you headcases.
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Panto, be quiet!
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Considering Arkle was a 3mile chaser and Istabraq was a 2 mile hurdler i "think" Istabraq might beat him you m0ron. Best 2 mile hurdler of all time has to be ALF, consistent old boy....
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Not in a 3 mile race over fences
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There is a theory on this issue that I heard Luca Cumani expound, Its really simple and I can't remember the figures he used but in 1970, there were X number of horses in training, In 2010 there are 3 times X number of horses in training. Taking into account as well advances in the breeding industry, is it not unreasonable to believe that the best of 3 times X number of horses in 2010 would be better than the best of X number of horses in 1970? Shouldn't horses be getting better?
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No. Not neccesarily. The overall general standard may improve (there is no emprical evidence of that) but outlying performers can come along at any time.
Hence Arkle would have battered Kauto Star and Nijinsky would have battered Sea the Stars. |
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On ratings indeed, But say Arkle beats Millhouse by X lengths but Millhouse is only the second best of a few thousand horses, When IC beats Denman in the Gold Cup, Denman is the product of a system that had so many more horses than in the 60's. Would it at least be fair to say that horses in general are getting better but a great one can come along at any time? I'm only playing devils advocate by the way, I just thought Cumani's hypothesis was interesting.
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Bastard of a month is January, I've a big project due up at the end of the month and don't seem to have any time for going out and betting at the minute, was hoping the racing at Sandown today would cheer me up, but I saw the field for the Tolworth and I was really dissapointed. Hopefully next Saturday will signal the relaunch of the jumps season, (it might be the next time I get out of the library) Haven't been really taken by a race since the Bula tbh, Leopardstown at Xmas felt thrown together.
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why respond to threads like this ffs
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I don't mean to denigrate Arkle, I think he was the greatest
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Golden Cygnet
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Golden Cygnet may well have been the greatest ever hurdler. Unfortunately he never had the chance to prove it.
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I don't have a problem with people questioning Arkle and it may be that the 212 timeform rating is a bit lively but if you bother to go back and really research it you cannot possibly argue that he was , by some margin, the greatest horse to ever get hold of a bit.
It would be easier if you were around at the time (I wan't) because you have more of a feeling for the worth of some of the collaterol form as many of us would today. Its not a simple matter of weights and measures but when they have to re-frame the handicap system to allow horses to run off something approaching their proper weight and the horse that has caused it still wins handicap chases we will know we have a potential challenger to the crown. The interesting argument is who is second best over 3m and my choice around either Newbury or Cheltenham would be Denman. Around Kempton it would be Kauto Star and Desert Orchid in a dead heat for 2nd. In all probability 20l behind the winner. |
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mayweather, i congatulate you on the biggest haul recorded on a horse racing forum. well done
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sea pidgeon,bula,comedy of errors,lanzarote, dont imagine istabraq would have won 3 if running at the same time as any of the above.
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ISTABRAQ is/was the greatest hurdler of all time and the best National Hut horse of all time. Forget Arkle, he was good but not that good. Kauto Star would have hammered him in the King George.
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Huge net here.
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dog face
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Can't make up my mind if it's cannabis (for the long-term memory loss), steroids (for the aggression)or jellies (for the general all-round dopeyness)that Mayweather is on.
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ROGERTHEBUTLER - SHUT THE **** UP!
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istabraq was absolutely brilliant won about 22 races out of 26 won 4 in succession at chelts the quickest over a hurdle i have seen but comparing to arkle is quite ridiculous
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Steroids - with a bit of cocaine for paranoia and winky shrinkage.
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Roger - you are so ugly lol
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mayweather been as you stopped posting at 8.53am can i assume that your teacher has entered the classroom and asked you to get on with you get on with your work
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Forget all of these Champion Hurdlers! Istabraq was the greatest of them all so forget the rest. Forget Arkle, he only beat statues. CVByrne - why did you tell me that Hors La Loi III was the best champion hurdler ever ha ha - what a dork!
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Streuth.
Mayweather - stop being a bellend. We take your point - you love Istabraaq and you've seen nothing better in the time you have been watching racing well fair enouugh. Never mind the fact that several horses (albeit chasers) have been rated higher since just enjoy your memories of the O'Brien horse and stop being a t1t. |
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Panto Prince - be quiet you muppet
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"When you have read it go to the first day of the Festival , get there at 10.30 and go and have a guiness in the Arke Bar before everyone else gets there. Simply go with it and luxuriate in the surroundinigs which are a fitting tribute to the greatest racehorse who ever lived."
Panto - FFS dont give this fcuking gimp any ideas - the Arkle Bar is one of the last refuges from pondlife like our young friend here so dont be putting ideas in his head to pollute the place. |
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lol what a muppet. Arkle would not beat Kauto in a horse box
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He wouldn't now, that's for sure
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