Cheltenham Festival
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Big Bucks - The horse that cannot get beat in March
Big Bucks - The horse that cannot get beat in March
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Replies: 128
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Of course, I have to agree with you on that score but I think he's in with a squeak of being in the top 20 3m chasers of the last three decades. Just think for one minute, how we'd rate him if Kauto Star had stayed in France.....that puts it into perspective. Maybe we should start a thread about the best 3m chasers since 1980.
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Very admirable horse he was,and ran consistently well up to 3m.But the Gold Cup was not really his cup of tea imo.Had Kauto not been in the race that would have been a poor race in 2007.He was then well beaten in the next two.
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Well Exotic Dancer would have won a Gold Cup had he not met the greatest chaser of modern times. The consistency he has shown chasing home Kauto leaves me in no doubt he'd have been good enough to win a Gold Cup.
I think he'd have beaten Best Mate's 3rd Gold Cup and beaten War of Attrition, no hope with the horses after that. I'd disagree strongly with budd's comments that he barely got 3m2f since he was twice entered for the Grand National. People said Imperial Commander didn't stay 3m yet he had had a National Entry too. Bottom line is trainers actually know more about their horses than we do. Exotic Dancer was a very good horse and he was rated correctly imv. |
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As cliched as it sounds, some champions can only demolish what's lined up against them - it's not their fault. However, horses such as Master Minded, Istabraq & See You Then will be forever remembered as supreme champions even though they never had to break sweat against mediocre opposition - Big Buck's is most definitely another one falling into that category.
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CV,he crawled round at the back saving as much as possible when 2nd to kauto in 2007,he then got well beaten in the next 2 doing the same.I have seen plenty of GC horses in my time,and imo ED aint one of them.Would not imo have beaten Best Mate in a million years over 3m2f at Cheltenham.Its possible he could have won one of the poorer gold cups,but not a proper gold cup horse in my eyes.Took him out of his comfort zone imo.
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bigbuckssanders - you know what you are talking about, these other people need a pair of specs.
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Sorry bud he was 2nd and 3rd in Gold Cup's with only Kauto and Denman ahead of him. He was a 174 horse, he'd have beaten many Gold Cup winners.
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well,he was 2nd in a poor one and well beaten in the other 2,thats fact.Neptune beat him in one of those and actually tried to win!!is he one of the best as well?
Ratings eh,lot to answer to they have. |
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not taking anything away from denman or kauto,but maybe these last few Gold cups are not as great as some seem to think?
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buddeliea - are you for real? You looneytic! The last few Gold Cups have been strong. 2008 and 2009 very strong. You are a silly boy! Get some glasses you thicko!
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note the question mark my friend,it werent a statement,just a question,and one worth pondering imo
eg,if you take Denman and Kauto from those races,what great horses are you left with?? |
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Do you need more than one or two horses to have a strong race? it could be argued that you do.
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The 2009 Gold Cup field is the strongest field I've ever seen. 5 Grade 1 winners and the Hennessy winner, with the winners of the previous 2 gold cups. Top field that.
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you serious mate??
this is the field exotic dancer,neptune collenges-those two not too bad i guess then we have,my will,roll along,barbers shop,madison du berlais,albertas run,knowhere,cerium,air force one,star de mohaison and halcon generladais.none of that lot would i describe as strong GC horses. strongest field you have ever seen??, mind you having said that,thinking back,a lot of GCups have had similar types,so maybe it is. |
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Strongest Gold Cup I've seen, yes.
Neptune Collonges and Exotic Dancer, both Grade 1 winners. Albertas Run - RSA winner. Madison Du Burlais - Hennessy winner. Kauto and Denman - 08 and 09 Gold Cup winners. Pretty damn good field you have to admit. |
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i wonder will neptune get back on the straight and narrow?
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We disagree mate,dont rate any of them over 3m2f at cheltenham,aside of course from the obvious 2.
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Put up a better Gold Cup field so.
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1981,1982,both stronger i think,rest since -you have a point mate.
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That's almost 30 years ago. So it was basically the strongest Gold Cup field for a long long time and the winner was rather impressive too. Best steeplechasing performance I think I'll see in my lifetime anyway.
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just had a good look back at previous gold cups,forgotten how poor some of them were,compared to a lot of them,2009 WAS a strong one,still aint happy with that being strong myself,oh well!!
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Take out the big three from last year and that race was as bad as 05 and 07.
Not knocking the horse, but all of best mates wins were in truly awful awful awful fields. placed horses who had like 3/4 career wins. Beefy of course was a great horse but only over here. |
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What i find i dont like with the Gold Cup is the lack of competition in the race.i have just looked back to Arkles time,and their have been some good/great winners but some of the opposition pretty ordinary.No Comparism with the Churdle imo,yes their have been ordinary ones,but we have also had some fantastic races,the Night Nurse era obviously,and now we have the potential for another great era.Just dont happen with the Gold Cup.
Guess thats one of the reasons why the CH is my fav race,and the GC aint. |
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I'm not a huge fan of the Gold Cup either. Obviously Kauto and Denman have changed that a bit but it doesn't hold a candle to the Champion Hurdle. Easily the best race of they year for me. Love it and love analysing it. The Arkle too. Always loved that race.
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I've never felt the 2009 Gold Cup was all it was cracked up to be, far too hyped for 'the rematch'. I would argue that the field that came together for Best Mate's first Gold Cup in 2002, was every bit as strong (far stronger imo in depth) but is not remembered because of the lack of hype surrounding it.
At the time of the race, the horses Best Mate beat had already won between them; 28 Grade 1s - 10 horses (9 won Gr1 over fences) - 20 chases, 6 hurdles, 2 NHF 38 Grade 2/3s - 26 chases, 12 hurdles. Behind him were... Gold Cup Winners - See More Business and Looks Like Trouble, also Marlbrough had won the replacement Grade1 at Sandown in 2001. RSA Chase Winners - Lord Noelie, Florida Pearl and Looks Like Trouble King George Winners - Florida Pearl and See More Business Other Grade 1 winning chasers - Commanche Court, Alexander Banquet, Moscow Express, Bacchanal and Sackville. |
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Many of those horses were well past there sell by date EC.
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But it could also be argued many of the 09 field weren't at their best. Denman's runs either side of that show it's unlikely he was anywhere near his best and Neptune Collonges picked up a bad injury in his race so it's anyones guess how much it affected him. I personally think there may have been a slight inflation in the ratings of all horses in recent years with all the hype that's around in the Kauto Star/Denman era.
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Opinions on ratings are always going to be there.
All that really matters is it's clear Kauto Star is one of the finest chasers of all time, so it's understandable that he's achieved such a lofty rating based on his 09 Gold Cup and King George run. We can pick holes in every race that's ever been run (bar the Champion Hurdles in the 70's) |
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i totally agree with ec. the handicapper has lost the plot in recent years. i think he gave exotic dancer a rating of 182 one year. he was a decent horse but far from top class imo. to rate him within a couple of pounds of moscow flyer and desert orchid is laughable.
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every horse can get beaten i said the same last year, and the year before that,and the year before that,.....etc
i don't back odds on shots at the festival never have never will. |
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odds on shots at the festival quickest way to ruin stats back that up
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great grey, don't be daft, Exotic Dancers highest rating was 174.
182 is Denmans highest rating, not Exotics. |
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only just noticed but some jammy git got a £10 matched @ 8 , he must be the shrewdest guy in the country
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Interesting Andy Stewart has says he's probably going to stay over hurdles for the rest of his career, 50/50 to jump a fence in public again.
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has said*
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BIG BUCKS = 4 WORLD HURDLES SOON and 3 World Hurdles evern sooner hee hee
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i have told EVERYONE THAT FOR LAST 2 SEASONS ??? were have you popped up from ??
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Cammy a quick look at a few of his other posts and you'll are he'd a worthless windup merchant. Ignore him.
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He was a plodder lol. Stop talking about other horses on my thread you clowns. I am the main man on this forum.
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mayweather i hope your not refering to the great ingles drever as being a plodder , you wud be insulting the great horse , as am sure he has many a fan on this forum , as he was a triple champion in his own right , and was great for the national hunt game in his time , think he warens a bit more RESPECT from a new fool on the forum
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