Toubab

Not sure CC wins the supreme (though he sets the standard) but not sure Toubab beats him..

nor me my friend!!

horse could be anything though,worth a shout i think.

Yes, he looked class at Haydock though i think that form is suspect. I prefer something like the county, tho the handicapper has not taken any chances.

I fully agree with budd, this horse could be anything and have since taken some 14/1 this morning ahead of its run at Sandown tomorrow. I was highly impressed lto and even though the form is suspect, you just do not see horses winning races quite like the way he did unless of course they are obliged to i.e priced up at 1/10 or shorter.

Dunraven storm clearly disappointed in that race, but only if you take the form of his 8length second to cue card literally and even some of cue cards form is looking slightly suspect if you take that route, which i am doing. The excuse given for DS flop the last day being that he was asked to race too soon after that run behind CC. For these reasons, i am quite happy to take a little bit of 14s as after tomorrow could easily be half those odds and everyone could be raving about him!

Cue Card is not the be all and end all of the supreme, he is merely the first horse to emerge as a supreme novice hurdle contender of which most people and bookies always get carried away with, after all, how many supreme ante-post fav's have been made fav' over the years if not the first one to be seen on the racecourse for that season?

Agree, think he could be anything, and he is my second bet in the supreme market after speculative punts on SFTH.

I think the horse is interesting but I have looked through his form and although he looked decent last time I have my doubts about this one. It's just my opinion. I like shot from the hip but I want to see him lift his feet up quicker.

His 4th in the Swinton on only his 3rd run was massive imo, and may give him a battle hardiness that some of the other novices lack come march.

And another plus for TOUBAB is Nichols has reported in saying he was weak last season and everything is/was geared around this season and beyond!

he probably has improved and was weak last seaason but wouldnt u  be dissaponted that a horse who was beaten in the swinton off 131 and before that was trounced in the adanois hurdle, winning the supreme novices

I wouldn't say that Cue Card's form is suspect.  A four length defeat to the current CH second favourite off level weights around Cheltenham is by far the strongest piece of Supreme Novices form to date.  He will learn so much from that run and was last off the bridle.

Horses that finished well behind him in the bumper have also made promising starts to their hurdling campaign like Hidden Universe, Magastar and Dare Me.

No i would not Alvorado, he was made 16/1 for the swinton and just 7/2 for lto. Imvho he was weak and needed the first run which was the Swinton. The rp has it as improved with every hurdles start and i am inclined to agree. He may not be able to win the supreme, but i am sure he is capable to place and at 14/1 he is value imo!
If he has improved by the amount i think he has, he will win tomorrow readily and be pronounced 7/1 by a few firms.

well we will see hes gonna have to do something brillant tomoz to convince me must win tommorow

Agree with well chief, many supreme winners dont get near champion hurdles. The one reservation i have with Toubab is that i want to see him produce good form apart from a 4 runner race at haydock, i know Peddlers Cross did it but i still need convincing.

If you watch the way Toubab moves you can see he is a serious tool. He has tremendous size and scope and imo the potential to be a top class animal.

You can see his weakness in the Swinton when he couldn't really get balanced when asked to quicken after the 2nd last but still ran on well enough to the line. The form when beaten 7l by Triumph winner (where outpaced after the last, having travelled well and blundered 2nd last on a sharp flat track) is very decent from my pov. You could also argue that on a galloping track there could be further improvement as I'm not convinced he has many gears but a very very high cruising speed.

Imo he is a future champion chaser, and Nicholls has said he has been phenomenal over fences at home. I think he wins the Tolworth by the length on Esher Hight Street tomorrow and goes into 9/2 for Supreme, where he is outpaced but runs on well enough. Then goes and wins the Arkle next year and 2 Champion Chases thereafter... But I have been wrong before. But my point is, that no horse has excited me quite as much for a long time.

Gashboy13 you just put a huge crazy smile on my face [smiley:crazy] and i hope your right! [:D][;)]

Well, you better hope it wins then.

given how heavy it is today,i wont be too concerned about him winning today,just as long as he runs well.Ground will be a lot different at Cheltenham(hopefully!!)

lol, if he wants to win at the Festival in March, then he has to win today. No excuses today. These are tin pot rivals today. Wait until Zaidpour gets hold of him!

no he dont have to win,that comes in March,but he has to run well.Ground makes a big difference.If he shows to me that he would have won but for the ground then i will be happy with that.

lol, he does have to win today, these are crabs today.

okey doke

lol

tin pot rivals? crabs? megastar gave 5lb to rock on ruby over inadequate trip (and rock on ruby's ideal trip) and lost 6L, hardly poor form...

Listen, MEGASTAR will not be a danger in March. I am telling you now, come and beat Zaidpour if you can ;-)

I don't think these rivals today are tinpot rivals as you put it. Hardest race to date imo is today and if not by name/nature of race, is a step up just by nature of rivals.

Agreed, i am looking for him to run well today and maybe look like he would have won if not for the ground, but really want a dozen length drubbing as well, that would look so nice on the eye but then if that were to happen, i would guess a lot of forumites on here would crab it saying he is best on heavy!?!

lol - whatever!

mayweather idiot

Think ground has gone against him today, so agree, just hoping for a good run.

Poor run.

WHAT'S THAT! HA HA - TOLD YA!

not taking much notice of that,all it told me that if its heavy Toubab wont win at Chelt

YOU MUGS THAT SAID TOUBAB WILL WIN IN MARCH KNOW NOTHING. I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT WINS!

Travelled well and couldnt quicken in the ground. Not too disheartened with that. Doubt conditions will be anything like that come Cheltenham in March.

Minella Class as short as 10/1 for the supreme? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH ha ha !

Quite clear to me that ground was the undoing of Toubab, went from cruising to beat in seconds, will be proper good/soft in march as it always is and my selection will reverse placings with both those horses easily imo, 14/1 may still be available after today and thats still big!

YOU LOT ON HERE A S**T FUNNY! YOU MAKE OUT YOU ARE PROFESSIONALS AND YOUR NOTHING LIKE ONE. I TOLD YOU TOUBAB IS A DOG. NICHOLLS DON'T EVEN RATE IT.

Albion Dan - you are well funny. Megastar is a dog and it beat Toubab lol. You lot need help with picking horses lol

Toubab all at sea on the ground, didn't give him a hard time, Carols 25/1 is a stupid over reaction.

Look at Minellas action, he's gagging for heavy ground, no chance at Chelts.

no one said Toubab would win in March,really its only you that says whats going to win in 3 months time.
He travelled well and could not quicken in the ground,it happens.Dont mean he cannot perform at the festival on decent ground.

you lot cannot tip a snooker cue lol

now budd

where did this Mayweather come from ?

May a cloud constantly follow you Mayweather for the rest of your life and continually piss on your head!


I take it you have not read Gashboy13 article above? A man who seems pretty clued up. And i am also guessing your hopeless at working out horses/ground? To say a horse whom obviously hates heavy ground, and is best on good could run any better than that after all the rain Sandown have had and even had to inspect this morning etc is utterly ridiculous!

I'd rather have 25/1 Toubab, than 10/1 the winner there. Doubt it will be a bog at the festival. The drift told you he wasnt expected to win today, or maybe its just because Nicholls thinks he is a dog...

who tipped Toubab??

Wait for Kauto Star next week. Ive had £500 win at 9/4, 2/1, 7/4

Albion Dan - you are thick! Toubab wont even finish in the first 3 so I would rather have a 10/1 winner thanks.,

Sea The Stars - ha ha, you cannot tip

http://forum.grasscity.com/photopost/data/500/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

lol - listen to me in future. I had £100 on Minella Class. Going out now with my winnings. Thanks

rhinestone,
i have no idea.
Funny,aint he.

I do not try to tip and only ever put up any fancies i may have in the coming months, just so happened i was of the same opinion as this threads author i thank you very much, now this forum is for grown up adults whom share a passion for horse racing and like to make grown up and educated posts based on opinion.

Is it not sleep time at your nursery Mayweather?

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Mayweather
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When: 08 Jan 11 15:01
lol - listen to me in future. I had £100 on Minella Class. Going out now with my winnings. Thanks



AFTERTIMING AT ITS VERY BEST

as i sed before the race i dident rate toubab he won a dreadful race last time at haydock and before that he was a well beaten off a mark of 131 in the swinton.yes the ground was desperate today and u can excuse him that but lets give credit to the winner MINELLA CLASS who lets not forget won just as easily at newbury fto on good ground to say toubab will defo reverse form on a quicker surface is hard to call i know who id be on if they mee again on good ground (minella class)

SEATHESTARS....NO1 - this guy cannot tip horses. Dont follow him!

Mayweather, you obviously do not know me very well at all. I only normally frequent one thread, and only educated people are really allowed in there as anyone remotely trying to post ridiculous comments or snub another forumite in this thread are usually instantly bannished and everyone just then ignores.

I nearly never post 'tips' on this forum, only fancies. I have a bet most days but hardly ever even post them on here unless i am seriously going in big on them. Below i have found two examples of this. So go ahead, take the p!$$ out of me if you wish, but i am willing to bet i am a better judge of a racehorse than you will ever be!

You crab my picks when i post them at your peril, only posted bets twice in the last 6 - 8 weeks like i said have had other bets in between but not confident ones and only very small stakes compared to these ones.

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When: 29 Dec 10 13:19
Yeah i am happy, really happy now i have had time to let that disappointment get behind me. I was going to ask hills for a special double price, today and the arkle, guessing i would have been offered 33/1 as true odds of that happening was a shade over 47s. If they were feeling generous i could maybe have got a bit of 40s. But never mind i have £10 e/way at 12/1 which is more than enough for me.

Had a couple fairly decent chunky bets today:

HURRICANE FLY 8/13
BIG ZEB 5/4

and these e.way
MEGASTAR 5/2
ROCK ON RUBY 9/2.


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When: 08 Jan 11 13:45
From my picks last night in this national i have only done Old Benny at 20/1 laddies 5 places.

Also done:

watamu 11/1 dance island 9/1 synchronised 9/2 maktu 11/2 1-2-3-4-5 1/4 odds a place and bog for me today


So to say i am bad beggers belief

alvarado
your last post just about sums it up nicely.

i reckon minella class is a superior horse regardless and i don't subscribe to the "toubab to be true theory".

Mayweather ffs pull yourself together. Nothing like a bit of modesty to create a sensible atmosphere.
Your attitude has completely ruined a sensible debate where you could have looked pretty astute with other posters looking forward to what you have to say in future. Instead you made yoursef look stupid.
Slagging off others because they are prepared to debate a race is not the way forward and you will only lose any credibility you may have. Grow up, please.

Mayweather has amused me - he is like a friend of mine who goes completely bananas when he has a winner or gets one over on you, but is bitter and contemptuous when he loses.

Anyway, just to follow up on what I said about Toubab being the new Pegasus. I still think he is a serious tool, although having gone back over his races again I'm inclined to believe he is a horse that doesn't really quicken off the bridle. As a consequence if he is to run well at Cheltenham (which he might) imo he is going to need a very strong end to end gallop and come into the race a little like Harchibald did in 2005 (and he didn't get up).

I think 25/1 is a little toppy, but all in all I wouldn't really suggest backing him this year as there is a lot more strengthening to do still, even though he has come a long way. He may blossom over the spring and everything may fit into place (good ground, strong gallop, good ride) - and I don't think the Supreme is looking very strong at the moment and it's possible we haven't even seen the winner out yet. But all in all he may turn out to be more of an attractive bet for the 2012 Arkle.

Those of you who are citing the fact he was beaten off 131 in the Swinton are a little naive imo. The horse was clearly not fully developed, looking just like a future chaser. The fact that he was able to travel and place in a tough handicap vs older horses as a 4yo is tesatment to his potential. There will be many horses beaten off similar marks in handicaps or by subsequently inferior horses in novice hurdles who turn out to be top class animals - Voy Por Ustedes being one off the top of my head.

The Swinton is a strange race being a handicap and run at the end of the season but Toubab's previous form is not very good and the race he won this season may not be that reliable so best hold a watching brief if I were you.

7 lengths behind Triumph winner on first run in England no good?

I Aint given up on him,hated that ground on sat.

I never advise anyone to give up on their selections just steer well clear of cliffs.

mind you i would not back him on the strength of that run,but decent ground i am sure will see a better run.

gashboy hes just not good enough mate im afraid i did warn you before saturday if that thing gets anywhere near winning the arkle i,ll eat my hat hes a genuine 135 horse.last season he wasant good enough and this year you and everyone else got carried away by a 6l beating of a rogue in drill sergeant he had form in france on bad ground and he was beaten fair and square by 2 superior horses

give minella class some credit if there was a future arkle winner in that race on sat it was minella class not toubab any ground any trip dont matter to minella sign of top racehorse

not top class imo

lol does being beaten combined 46l in 2 flat races and finishing last in 3 runner race in 3 times he ran on bad ground count as good form in France? In fact, his form in France overall was very very average, but then I again I wouldn't expect you to understand that he was bought for his type and potential as an animal.

why wouldnt i understand ive seen the horse run 5 times and not once has he showed himself better than 135 horse.hey he might be lucky and fall into a dreadful arkle where a 135 horse might have a chance of a top 6 finish

toubab will never ever beat minella class FACT

lol if you say so. you should go all in minella class for the supreme. have the lot on.

Who the blue hell made this Toubab thread? The horse is a dog! You lot crack me up for tipping him lol

You are a numpty Mayweather.
The idea behind putting up threads is for intelligent people to share views.
They are not for idiots to express repeatedly just how brainless they are.
And, by the way, Toubab is not a dog. He may not be a champion racehorse but he is very good. Not every horse can be a champion and, by the way, all champions need horses like Toubab in order to show their ability.

ok Brighurst1 lol - whatever you say boss ha ha ............................................................................... (what a muppet)

May,
whats up with you??
i started this thread to discuss a possible horse to beat Cue Card,It was not a tip,nowhere does it see it was,i just wanted to see what others thought,that,as Brigust says,is what this forum is about.If the horse turns out not good enough,fair enough.One run on heavy ground though does not make him a dog,as you put it.

Buddeliea - listen muppet boy. Fair play if he is trying to find a horse to beat Cue Card but please don't put this one up for beating it. This horse could start on Monday March the 14th and still not beat Cue Card. People on here were saying its going to win the Supreme Novices bla bla bla. Are they crazy! I am a big Paul Nicholls fan but this horse is not good enough, look at his form. It was not good enough before Saturday and it will not be good enough on 15th March or next March or the March after that. You lot make out you own this forum when you don't. As soon as people stand up and bite back you don't like it. I am here now to sort this forum out and we don't want muppets like you and the others on here trying to boss the forum. Muppets!

oh well,i did try!!

CV,how do you block people mate,did not want to go down that road,but enough is enough!!

lol - you lot are a bunch of muppets and if I get blocked I will be back, don't worry.