most impressive cheltenham form so far this season

Time for Rupert - natural
Grand Crus - Visually impressive
Menorah - Battler with more class than I thought
Aegan Dawn - seeing it was believing it

Aegan Dawn was as easy as Dunguib in the Bumper....but what next? big step up at a skinny price in the LB Hurdle

Poquelin

easy MENORAH could quite possibly be the best hurdler ive seen

you never saw ista?

aegan dawn was far easier than Dunguib

Aegean Dawn won a class 3 handicap off 114 ffs

I was very impressed by the extremely well handicapped Grands Crus beating another well handicapped horse in For Non Stop, in a race which will produce a few more handicap winners.

Time for Rupert - Possibly the most impressive novice chase performance i have ever seen around Cheltenham.

Alvarado when did you start watching racing last weekend?

outside the box here but i think Champion Courts run back in Novemember was impressive for a horse that didnt jump well and wasn't traveling very well. I know twiston thinks a fair bit of sybarite what finished 2nd.

Alvarado....your mental posts are too numerous to mention but your 'MENORAH could quite possibly be the best hurdler ive seen' quote tops the lot. Unless of course you've only been following racing for a week or two; and I accept that there is every chance of that!!

ive been watching racing for the last 20 years

Yet you state Menorah as possibly being the best you've ever seen. You can't have seen horses such as See You Then, Istebraq, Hardy Eustice, Binocular, Alderbrook, Kribensis......and about 200 others I presume.

yeah saw all of them why

alvarado turned 18 on sep 20th 2010. FACT.

most impressive for me would be time for rupert too, natural jumper, massive engine.

Hurricane Fly looks in a different league to Menorah to me (he genuinely could be the best since Istabraq) - just hope he stays fit and well and we get the chance to find out.

Master Minded - Champion Chase

aegean dawn could have won with 2.5 stone more on its back

Time for Rupert, for the reasons others have already mentioned.

Woolcombe Folly for an excellent weight conceding ride that makes for good comparison on the clock with Master Minded's good run the same day.

Tanks for That - could be very interesting in one of the Festival handicaps if protecting his current mark until then. If Woolcombe Folly is now deservedly rated 169, arguably Tanks for That may be quite well treated on a mark of 142. Taking account of the weight he was receiving from the winner and the distance beaten in a truly run race, a mark a few pounds higher might not be an unrealistic measure of where the horse stands currently. Consigliere was a close third in the Johnny Henderson last March off 145. Running off 148 on Saturday, he was beaten a country mile by Tanks for That off 135 (may have been beaten too far to have run his race, possibly, but he is generally a reasonably consistent performer with proven Cheltenham form).

Poor old Alvarado taking some stick here. Saves Eric Morris getting it today I suppose. Chim up Alvardo lad

Master Minded, both runs this season he has been brilliant. He will win the CC hard on the snaff if he repeats this form.

Big Zeb will have something to say about that.

menorah would destroy HF too quick for him. people on here knocking menorah left right and centre what about this hurricane fly

1.never been to cheltenham before
2.never raced on genuine good ground
3.never been seen in a fast run race
4.only horse hes beaten of note are solwhit/go native which on line through binocular leave him about a stone to find

If Big Zeb stands up he will make a race of it I agree.

I suspected this might polarise opinion...some interesting angles. The think I love about December apart from Christmas is you have so much hope....time will tell but still Menorah for me. I dont think we should compare to the quite recent greats yet!

Alvarado you are a mug FACT

FFT, Your not far wrong about Poquelin, that was a great performance at the weekend

no brookie your a mug u litlle t a r t

Indeed abbott, especially considering the regard that Great Endeavour seems to be held in

Can't knock Menorah's form either,

Grands Crus was impressive. Has, and will go on to bigger and better things

Aegean Dawn's win was facile, but essentially was a handicap off 114. Not to say he isn't going places either but still...

I must admit to having backed J'yvole at 40s+ lasy week for the Ryanair so a combination of Poq run on Sat and hers today has made me think the youngsters may struggle to make an impact in the race this year.

Did like Mad MAx for this or the GC before his two runs this season, but afraid i'm with the "he doesn't get up the hill" group now

Tranquil Sea has never done it for me. Zaarito might be of interest

Zaarito ran a good race today, I must admit I never saw Mad Max as anything other than a 2miler. If he was mine I would give him the next 2 months off bring him back mid feb for a 2m handicap. Depending on how he goes you pick his festival race.

I have French Opera down as Nicky's number one QM hope.

As for Max I guess he could go for that race Kalahari King won last year?

Would probably bypass the festival and go to Aintree, but not sure connections would think the same!

Agree thats the problem. As far as I know Nicky is adamnt that French Opera steps up in trip this season. I personally would stick to 2m but like you said its a pity conections never seem to know whats best for their own horses lol

Alvarado.    Fair play for fighting your corner, regarding Menorah.
But, you really show Istabraq disrespect, if you consider the Hobbs gelding it's superior at this stage.

no im not saying he is the best hurdler ive seen i said he COULD be thats how good imo he really could be the horse has got everything

Agree about Menorah. He has done nothing to suggest he is top class yet. He beat 2 4yo novices on Saturday and one was giving him weight! The most telling form so far was shown by Big Bucks. Cruised home like he usually does despite a chnge of rider and very hard to put up a credible danger apart from Peddlers Cross and he seems unlikely to go to 3 miles. I am a big Woolcombe Folly fan and his win in a faster time than Master Minded was also impressive. Interesting that Paul Nicholls seemed to rate Tataniano up with both of them.

Im in the PC camp, but cant fail to be impressed with Menorah the way she quickened up 2 out last time..settled the race in a few strides.But Im staying with PC.

so your slating menorah and praising big bucks for beating to average horses at best may i remind u he beat duc de reigniere and arcalis hardly drever or a baracouda are they . get a grip mate regardless of how old they were menorah beat two very good horses VERY EASILY! too and you seem to forget menorah is only 5 if hes not top class then what is for  f u ck sake .

Menorah faster than Hurricane Fly? Baffling statements here, Fly has run on good ground on the flat and in france.

Also Go Native beat binocular twice and then got injured in the champion hurdle.
So form with him is very good.

Menorah is a good horse, but take it easy with the hyperbole Alvarado he has yet to beat a  good yardstick.

He's totally  unbackable st his current odds, he'll have to win the champion to make me a believer.

french good ground = heavy like all of their meetings

well a beating/thrashing of 12l ascot hurdle winner who is rated 159 and thrashed the reliable karabak in the process and was previously unbeaten makes me think he is a decent yardstick and then chuck in the previously unbeaten cue card then i beg to differ

Ascot Hurdler winner beat stayers. Why would form with Karaback matter to 2mile hurdlers? Cue Card had only started racing this year.

Solwhit and Go Native are multiple Grade 1 winning horses. Do you honestly think that form with them is not as good as from with SC and Cue Card?

Also its was good ground when he won at Punchestown in April this year.

Menorah could indeed be v good, but until he beats proven grade 1 2 milers its all hypothesis.

as tough as solwhit is and as good as he is hes a grade 2 horse at best honestly menorah would beat him 10l on the bridle like he won on saturday

Do you honestly think that form with them is not as good as from with SC and Cue Card?

fair question CV,and form with Go Native is good.But i would take Cue Card over Solwhit over 2m.

id take menorah over any hurdler at the moment

Really bud? Cue Card has what raced 5 times and is a novice. You think beating him is better form than beating Solwhit who's won how 5 grade 1's? I find that baffling.

Lets hope all of them get to The Champion in one piece,I'm in your corner Alvarado personally think they all have Menorah to beat.

yes i would mate,i honestly think Cue Card would beat Solwhit over 2m,yes he is a novice and some may think i am mad,but i dont rate Solwhit at all over 2m,unless its very soft.
Put it this way on normal CHurdle ground,if both turned up i would expect Cue Card to finish in front of Solwhit.

Fair enough, I think you are off your noodle, solwhit has won six grade ones and come second to hurricane fly in two and was sick before cheltenham.

I think it's rather crazy to think cue card is better than solwhit, he's never beaten any decent horses over hurdles.

You are mad mate.

Thought Somersby ran a cracker behind MM. Must surely go down the Ryanair route now.

Alvorado, you criticise my post this morning. Menorah may be top class but I still can't see how his bare form merits any superstar rating. Big Bucks on the other hand may not have beaten anything of great note at Newbury but what are you going to put up as a danger to him at Cheltenham in March? The thread is supposed to be about impressive Cheltenham form and the one race that already seems decided barring injury is the World Hurdle. Whether BB would have beaten Inglis Drever or Baracouda is totally irrelevant to the result next March.

Big Bucks has nothing to prove over hurdles. What a Gold Cup if he were to go for it and I believe he'd have a chance.

I also think Menorah is very good, but would back Hurricane Fly against him.

just dont rate solwhit as a 2miler on decent ground.He won those grade 1's on soft or worse type of ground.I even think a novice,albeit a good one by the looks of it,will beat him.
Maybe i am mad!!
:)

Some horses you take to, some you don't

Never been a fan of Solwhit to be honest and, rightly or wrongly, don't see him as a Champion Hurdle threat to the likes of Binocular and Menorah.

Hurricane Fly is a live one, although having been burned on this one ante-post previously I will wait to see him turn up on the day before getting involved.

Still feel a bet on Hurricane has a decent amount of risk given history of injury and lack of form in England. If I was a pro I would be laying for as much as i could

That's why nrnb is where you back fly. But really you should wait until binocular runs on the 26th as fly might drift after that is he wins.

Budd you are mad, forgive the champion hurdle as he was sick and  his form is 11111212, with both losses to the fly. He came a close second on good ground at punchestown, he is a very good horse and would  beat cue card if they both met in march, no doubt about it.

Six grade One wins mate and two seconds to a special horse. You have to  admire him, especially his consistency and honesty.

I think saying cue card is  better over  two miles on good ground is madness. Would cue card have run the fly that close at punchestown in april? Real question?

I've backed Hurricane Fly the last 2 years,has'nt stopped me this year
either.Just bad luck what's happened to him.Best hurdler about and if
he stays sound and runs this season he'll prove it.This horse is top
class.

Same here, I felt if I keep backing hin when the ap market opens I'll always have the beat odds the day he turns up in march. 5pts at 12/1.

He is the most impressive hurdler I've seen since istabraq. Speaking of whom, I'm staring at a painting of him right now, I the wall of mary macs in ballsbridge.

Alvarado
15 Dec 10 12:19 Joined: 20 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 343 | Blogger: Alvarado's blog
ive been watching racing for the last 20 years[/i]


The ones you saw from your pram don't count [;)]

Haha, steeple

What you think of the fly yesterday? That was the best days racing I'll ever be at. All for a tenner. Four grade ones a grade two, plus  two to handicaps and the three year old race.

Hello CV.  I thought the Fly was impressive. His hurdling technique looked very ring rusty at times, though I suppose you can forgive him that.  Townend rode a very confident race; he likes to keep him well covered up, that's for sure and HF's supporters will be glad there's plenty room at Cheltenham once they turn in.

He doesn't have the sweetest action to my eye, though handsome is as handsome does and I thought he won with quite a bit in hand.

The one I took from yesterday was J'y Vole who now looks to be crying out for a trip.  Jumped really well in the main and looked most enthusiastic, especially after the slight flat spot she hit as they turned in.

Everyone will assume she'll go for the Ryanair but I'll be most surprised if she doesn't get a Gold Cup entry so I took a wee bit of the 230 on here.

Well mate, I agree with every word you said there. I was  worried from early because the fly wasn't hurdling with any fluency and thought he wasn't going to win because of that. I was wrong. He'll obviously be  better when hurdling off a quicker pace and again on better ground.

Townend is my second fav jockey, he is so confident he knows what to do and   advice from a bie of over confidence at punchestown on the fly last season he's been perfect on the rides I've seen him on.

As for Jy vole she finished like a train. But just do not think mullins will go near the gold cup with her this year. She'll certainly go  Ryanair.

I'm in the middle of  writing up the champion  hurdle thread. Will post it in a couple of days.

sageform id love to see Quvega against him along with punchestowns ridden behind him people seem to forget he almost beat him twice.and i might sound crazy but with those two doubtful i havent given up on ZAYNAR yet up to 3m with the cheekpieces on if he can run to his champion hurdle 3rd he,ll hve a massive chance

CV,i aint really impressed with those soft ground wins in Ireland,thats my choice.He aint really performed that well on decent ground over 2m over here,probably excuse for his CH run,but rubbish in Newcastle really.
I stand by my comment that Cue Card would finish in front of him in the CH on normal ground.

By the way Binocular hurdles better than HF imo,and his performance last year in the CH was the best i have seen since Istabraq.

I stand by my comment that Cue Card would finish in front of him in the CH on normal ground.

Anyone else think i am mad,or am i just being a tad controversial?

Dont think Solwhit could finish in the first 6 at Cheltenham, he has no gears at all which doesnt say a lot for the Irish horses he has been beating imo.

I just think it's impossible to say if cue card would, we've no idea if he's very good, it's hard enough to know if Menorah is Champion Hurdle class given what he's beat let alone cue card. So I suppose it's just visual impression that you are going on.

Also Fly and Binocular on their game are the best hurdlers in training, they both are equally as slick over them while both have had some less than great hurdling days. But I think they're both better on good ground.

Fair comments mate.

Dont think Either will line up in CH to be honest.

HF and Bino will though of course,and it would be great if both showed thier best on the day,blimey PC,menorah and co would have to be very good to beat them then,wonder if they are??

If a horse can beat a fit and on the game fly and binocular in march then I'll be looking at something special. I just can't see it happening. Maybe Peddlers can so something great in january, but realistically it'll be a weak field in that race.

Solwhit should skip cheltenham and focus on aintree imv

Whatever happens,we wont know until the day.Thats to me is what makes this race so intriguing most years,so many unknowns,and this year we have some smashing novices,a champ that we dont know what he will do on the day as is the case with him,a potential wonder horse thats been so unlucky with injuries,plus a few more like GN,KK who we aint seen yet this season.
Fascinating to say the least,CANT WAIT!!!

Yeah I better get my champion hurdle thread up soon. Need to finish my write up. It's my favorite race after all.

I agree about Solwhit going for Aintree...it could be easy money. I just wish they al get to the CH in one piece because in most years it is a great contest.

I really really liked the performance of Grand Crus. Yes it was only a small handicap and yes we've seen loads of higher rated horses in more valuable races but I just loved the way he travelled and jumped. Came out 1 week later and won the brush hurdle race at Haydock similarly impressively. Cannot wait to see him over fences next season. Worth a small ew punt without Big Bucks in the world hurdle imo.

I can't understand how anyone can fancy a horse like Zaynar to beat Big Bucks. He is a typical Triumph winner off the flat. Very few of them train on. Penzance, Katchit (despite winning a poor CH) Made in Japan etc. I would fancy Big Bucks to beat any horse in training over hurdles or fences over more than 2.5 miles and that includes Kauto Star. Your only hope of getting him beat is injury or a fall. The reason why people point a finger at the quality of his opposition is that trainers don't want to take him on.

Kauto would jump Big Bucks into the ground over fences.

not really hes just fallen into a division that is so weak do you honestly think hes a better hurdler than say a inglis drever

I think he probably is. Nobody really knows just how good Big Bucks could be over hurdles, he only ever just does enough and nobody has ever got to the bottom of him.

Inglis Drever was a fantastic horse around Cheltenham but Big Bucks is more versatile when i comes to different tracks, as he has proved around Aintree the last two years.

Agree with the last post. I was huge Inglis Drever fan but he was never as dominant as Big Bucks who is unbeaten since his fall in the Hennessy! I would love to see Baracouda and Inglis Drever against Big Bucks, all at their best. It would be close, But Alvorado keeps bringing up comparisons with the past. My point is that there is no credible opposition to Big Bucks this season which is what this thread is about.

CVByrne, you might be right but I don't remember much talk about Big Bucks' jumping problems before that fall at Newbury and he is a much older and wiser horse now.

Big Bucks beating Kauto...not sure about that. It must be temtpting to go back chasing but it cant be too upsetting seeing your horse invincible over Hurdles time after time

I'm sure they will have another go over fences next season.

id say big bucks will go chasing next year if nicholls and stewart think celestial halo will be able to win the world hurdle. i know stewart would love a crack at the gold cup but the world hurdle is an incredibly weak race without big bucks and its his to win until he retires / goes chasing

most impressive cheltenham so far this season ?? Ans: Menorah hands down...impressive when winning the greatwood giving weight all around and then in the international put up a superb performance to earn his status as a leading contender for the champion hurdle. Others that impressed, Grand Crus at the Paddypower meeting but not reading too much into it.

I can't wait for a race between Menorah and Paddlers Cross - these are iron willed horses and it could be a thriller.


I haven't written off Zaynar..... just yet.

id say the most impressive form at chelters so far is the race grand crus won. gone well up in the handicap and there are winners all thru the field. i think for non stop and al ferof have the challow between them

Already posted - Master Minded !!!

reve, I like Act of Kalanisi for the Challow. Experienced flat horse who jumped well for on course win and should stay well.

looks a nice sort alright. il be backin for non stop

You were closer than me. Hope the going was the problem. Ghizao must be the one to take out of the day for the future. Giving weight to some promising horses.

yeah sure is. not much chance of a good price though i suppose

Same horse, different race (see post 19th Dec):-
GRAND CRUS

Poquelin still for me, Grands Crus a close second

Peddlers... form is rock solid..

Menorah has been replaced by Grand Crus that was breathtaking

Still Menorah for me.

OK, Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti are not (yet) top, top class like Binocular but the way he put them to the sword was VERY impressive.

Silv Conti was giving weight though, and he may be a bit of a dark horse for the big one.