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Theres a thread about Peddlers Cross, Menorah, Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti, so I thought I'd start another on Binocular.
Am I alone in thinking 9/2-5/1 is cracking value for the reigning champion hurdler?
Yes I admit he has been a little inconsistant in the past and was well beaten on his return but surely fitness was an issue at Newbury. Imo he travelled and jumped beautifully until the last where he just blew up and AP went easy on him. The connections have stated all along that there is only one race they care about and that is a repeat Champion hurdle success. NJH is a master at producing horses at their peak for the festival and I thought he was superb last year.
Menorah was very good yesterday and both Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti did their reputations no harm. Peddlers Cross is clearly decent, as can Solwhit and Hurricane Fly be at their best. But for me Binocular is still very much the one to beat in March.
I have backed him at various odds and have him tied up in numerous multiples for the big one but cant help but keep topping up if his price remains so high. Lets hope Go Native or Starluck out-speeds him in the xmas hurdle so I can get even more money on at even bigger odds because I genuinely think he's a different prospect come Cheltenham in march!
Am I alone in thinking 9/2-5/1 is cracking value for the reigning champion hurdler?
Yes I admit he has been a little inconsistant in the past and was well beaten on his return but surely fitness was an issue at Newbury. Imo he travelled and jumped beautifully until the last where he just blew up and AP went easy on him. The connections have stated all along that there is only one race they care about and that is a repeat Champion hurdle success. NJH is a master at producing horses at their peak for the festival and I thought he was superb last year.
Menorah was very good yesterday and both Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti did their reputations no harm. Peddlers Cross is clearly decent, as can Solwhit and Hurricane Fly be at their best. But for me Binocular is still very much the one to beat in March.
I have backed him at various odds and have him tied up in numerous multiples for the big one but cant help but keep topping up if his price remains so high. Lets hope Go Native or Starluck out-speeds him in the xmas hurdle so I can get even more money on at even bigger odds because I genuinely think he's a different prospect come Cheltenham in march!
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Certainly sets a very high standard in terms of how well he won last March off what was a reasonably good time for the race (and he probably could have pulled out a bit more on the day if needed). You might get an even bigger price on Binocular, if the likes of KK, Go Native and Hurricane Fly return in good form after Christmas. He would still just about be my pick (though I have been very impressed by Menorah and there is something very taking about PC too). I might want to look for some cover nearer the time with one or more other bets in the race, in case the ground turns out a fair bit softer than it was last March.
Once again I think the ground will be the key to this one in March. The closer it is to good and the stronger his chance in my view. If ity is soft he could be vulnerable.
I agree.
I have never been a fan of bino.
I was at newbury that day and i have never seen a hurdler ping a hurdle since the mighty istabraq. AP did not hit the horse once.
Fools and their money.
I have never been a fan of bino.
I was at newbury that day and i have never seen a hurdler ping a hurdle since the mighty istabraq. AP did not hit the horse once.
Fools and their money.
Hugely impressive in the big one last year and will be primed for March 15 to the minute. Henderson and McCoy have raved about this horse from day 1 and last March he showed why.
For me not matter what happens in the build up it is just a smoke screen and it's only on March 15 where the real deal will turn up.
Binocular will be the horse to beat when the tapes go up for the Champion Hurdle.
For me not matter what happens in the build up it is just a smoke screen and it's only on March 15 where the real deal will turn up.
Binocular will be the horse to beat when the tapes go up for the Champion Hurdle.
For all his brilliance last March, I'm still in the doubting camp and I think he's vulnerable, though he is the obvious benchmark. I can't forget how he didn't produce at the previous two Festivals - the excuses were limp and he was beaten fair & square on both occasions.
Certainly legitimate to question the consistency of the horse across the range of his runs, though of course a first, second and a third placing in three runs at the Festival is still pretty impressive form.
Just how important the ground is to this horse is something backers will need to think hard about, arguably. Hard to think it was more than coincidence that his one really excellent showing at the Festival so far was when getting the best racing ground he has run on at Cheltenham.
Just how important the ground is to this horse is something backers will need to think hard about, arguably. Hard to think it was more than coincidence that his one really excellent showing at the Festival so far was when getting the best racing ground he has run on at Cheltenham.
I backed him immediately after his run this season where he blatantly blew up , imo. At that point in time Korral were a standout 5/1 so I took. Since then they have taken some more support and are now 9/2.
You can still get 5/1 with 3-65 however.
You can still get 5/1 with 3-65 however.
Very interested if Go Native turns up at Kempton. If he beats, binocular and Khyber Kim there I will rule that the first three home in the champion are not as good as some people thought.
What other potential decent horses will run at kempton? Starluck obviously. Any others?
What other potential decent horses will run at kempton? Starluck obviously. Any others?
dont think Go native is going to kempton as he was late back in after his injury.
I'm not sure how important ground is to Binocular but its usually pretty similar each year give or take. If it comes up soft I'll have an almighty saver on Solwhit who is seriously underestimated by many and could surprise a few on slower ground. I dont think his race last year reflects his ability!
Hussard - in total agreement. Woodworm, in total agreement. Eternal Optmist - i accept the caveat about the ground.
Agree about solwhit tbh, its preparation in the three weeks building up to last years champion hurdle was awful.
Solwhit hasn't got the gears of at least six other rivals but the way the race is usually run, who's to say he'll need them? He's definitely got the ability and often toughness & stamina is more important. Last season's run is easily excused due to his interrupted preparation and like many others in a wide-open race, I couldn't put anyone off him. If there is a question of one of the main protagonists, then for me it's Hurricane Fly - I keep hearing how he'll be really suited to a strong gallop but I have grave doubts about him being equipped for that.
If it was bottomless i think Solwhit could plug on into a place but think at least KK woudl beat it in those circumstances. Cannot have him in any circumstances.
This race is sometimes won by the horses that really do have the pace, but the likes of brave inca and hardy eustace won most of theirs races over their careers through guts and determination.
I think solwhit and menorah are the two that fit into that category.
Can't wait, its always my favourite race of the season, all be it last year being tarnished by binoculars apparent rising from the dead.
I think solwhit and menorah are the two that fit into that category.
Can't wait, its always my favourite race of the season, all be it last year being tarnished by binoculars apparent rising from the dead.
Hurricane Fly showed plenty of guts to beat solwhit at punchestown after a 6 month lay off.
CV - I'm not questioning his hurdling, class, speed, guts or finishing effort but what I do have reservations about is his ability to get the trip AND produce his potent turn of foot off a searching gallop - furthermore, will he even make the line-up? Of the main protagonists, I think he's the weakest link.
Hurricane flys head carriage just seems like it could really hinder it although i could be wrong as to how much this will harm it.
Great news to have Hurricane Fly back.
It is hard at this stage to really get a grip on what type of horse he is, other than that he looks more than useful from the style in which he has won his races. Hopefully, he'll have a couple more runs in good open company before next March from which we should be able to glean a bit more about what his strengths and limitations might be.
It is hard at this stage to really get a grip on what type of horse he is, other than that he looks more than useful from the style in which he has won his races. Hopefully, he'll have a couple more runs in good open company before next March from which we should be able to glean a bit more about what his strengths and limitations might be.
Well he's running over 2m4f tomorrow fto and won over 2m4f as a 4yo in france. So he has plenty of stamina and if he can make go natives turn of foot look slow then he is easily the fastest horse in the race. While he travels like an absolute dream through his races and is so slick over his hurdles. He's won his races in all manners from guts to sheer class, there is nothing to not like about this horse.
I think he is special. If he can stay fit and run tomorrow and in the irish champion before cheltenham he'll be short order in the market I'd say.
Top top horse.
I think he is special. If he can stay fit and run tomorrow and in the irish champion before cheltenham he'll be short order in the market I'd say.
Top top horse.
Fingers crossed hurricane fly is 100% the horse it was before injury then.
His win at punchestown would have me confident he retains his ability. From my many many watches of the race (you can see us celebrating at the winning post) he traveled like a dream, went 4 horses wide on the bend to go after solwhit, was still hard on the steel and just lack of fitness meant he couldn't put the race to bed. Guts got him up.
CV - as I've mentioned about Hurricane Fly, I think he's a terrific horse but I have doubts whether he's equipped for the rigours of a Champion Hurdle. I'm aware that he's won over 20f at Auteuil but on bottomless ground they don't go a Cheltenham pace do they? There's at least half a dozen others that look suited by Cheltenham's C&D and a strong pace - they've proved it before and HF hasn't. It's that reason alone I think he's the weakest link because in any normal race, I wouldn't be confident of any of them mastering 'The Fly.' Sometimes when looking for an angle I'll concentrate more on how a race will be run (to suit my selection) rather than figuring out who's the best horse in the race. At this stage it's very difficult to have much confidence in any selection in the CH and I'm flummoxed - I think it's that open you could pick three and not have one in the frame! As for the Leopardstown destruction of Go Native, that was a long time ago and the runner-up's undoubtedly improved though the memory of HF bursting clear after the last is still fresh in my head - I can't remember the last time I saw a horse accelerate as instantly on such ground. Whether he's up to Cheltenham's demands is for me, open to debate.
Hurricane fly has never raced at cheltenham so there is no way to know if it would every be a problem for him. But given how he has won his last three wins I'd be confident he can handle anything.
Putting 10l on go native after the last at leopardstown.
Being boxed in and still managing to scoot clear in heavy ground at punchestown.
Traveling like a dream, then going 4 wide to make the ground on solwhit, hard on the steel jumping the last and guts getting him home.
three separate styles of victory. He can do anything
Putting 10l on go native after the last at leopardstown.
Being boxed in and still managing to scoot clear in heavy ground at punchestown.
Traveling like a dream, then going 4 wide to make the ground on solwhit, hard on the steel jumping the last and guts getting him home.
three separate styles of victory. He can do anything
One of the most interesting things about HF is that he leaves the impression they haven't really go to the bottom of him yet. He has had to battle to some extent to beat Solwhit the last twice, but you still get the sense he has been running pretty much within himself. Those two races perhaps don't quite equate to the rigours of a CH, but he is interesting and an exciting contender for next March.
HF the one to be most frightened of now imo. Was very good today.
I still like 5's on Bino mind :)
I still like 5's on Bino mind :)
The Champion Hurdle is by far my fav. race of the festival and the picture is getting clearer. I think Hurricane Fly will be a serious threat come March if he stays sound. He looks a machine and the run over that bit extra today beating a horse like Solwhit gives the confidence he will stay up the hill. I think Binocular is still the one to beat and I am really excited about these two in March!
MM - I must disagree about the picture getting clearer. I haven't got a clue who'll win the Champion Hurdle and it's getting even more difficult with every trial! We're still yet to see Khyber Kim, Go Native or Dunguib - how'll it affect the market if one of those bolts home impressively? Is there any news about Rite Of Passage or Casual Conquest? Throw in Soldatino, Overturn and a possible return to two miles for Celestial Halo and it's probably as competitive (with quality too) as it's been in the last three decades! PS - I'm assuming Punjabi's out of the race by the odds available.
Pretty sure I read that Punjabi is out for the season Harchi.
Sorry Harchi didn't mean it like that. I just feel that we are getting to see a few of the contenders out now and getting a bit of a picture. I agree Celestial Halo should definitely be running over 2. That is his trip whether good enough or not. I was never that confident he would take to chasing and I think it's a strange decision if they are going to take on their own horse in Big Buck's which looks an impossible task anyway. At the moment I'm not too sure about Soldatino I mean it was a funny Triumph last year what with Barizan going off like a scalded cat and some of the form not stacking up too well. I do think Barizan was a different horse last year mind and Soldatino still surely has a bit more to show as he's still relatively inexperienced. I would be surprised to see Rite of Passage over hurdles now seeing what he did in the summer.
It is so competitive your better off sticking with the horse that has been there and done it and produced a very high rating in the race. [;)]
MM - I can't say I'm a massive fan of Soldatino, especially as Barizan has been woeful this season. He was undoubtedly a good horse last season and Tom O'Brien rode them all to sleep - including Geraghty. For the reason that Soldatino was strong enough to be the ONLY real closer on the leader, he may well be much superior to Barizan and could be another capable of finding the improvement to win a trial against established performers. PS - the Weld pair are geldings so I can't see why they don't have a crack 
The Weld pair are not running over sticks this season. CC will be aimed at the Tatterslas in May and ROP will go to Ascot for a repeat. Weld has confirmed this.
Sintonian - everyone knows that Binocular is the benchmark after last year's performance but I'm not convinced he'll reproduce that. He seems to find excuse after excuse. Obviously, if he does run to his best then he's an odds on shot to win it.
are we at risk of over doing the excusing of sub standard performances from binocular because we all have in our minds what he came back to do last time in the champion.....bearing in mind that this years looks altogether a much better race than last years.......also i keep coming back to how confident pre race henderson seemed to be before newbury.....i think it is dangerous to simply disregard his defeats because the quick ground and fast pace on the day of the champion will see everything come good.
Sintonian - thanks for that.....however disappointing.
not sure which Newmury race you are referring to Duffy but if you mean the recent one NJH was anything but confident.
People are getting confused about the pre-race positives. The positives were all to do with his jumping and movement at home because like we all know he started last season jumping like a fish. Amazed people think it was to do with his fitness tbh. Entirley different.
People are getting confused about the pre-race positives. The positives were all to do with his jumping and movement at home because like we all know he started last season jumping like a fish. Amazed people think it was to do with his fitness tbh. Entirley different.
fair do's sint...you're right on reflection, although i don't think they were entirely ruling out a win[;)] perhaps the acid test is now kempton with his fitness up to scratch and the muscle problem gone, now if he fails there i for one wouldn't want to rely on the it'll all come good on the day festival wise train of thought.
yeah im not saying they were totally expecting him to get beat, that would be silly to say as much, but the fact is the horse has nothing to prove, whereas the other two do and would have been trained and ridden accordingly for that race.
If he gets beat in Kempton i'd not make excuses for him either tbh although it is still possible for him to improve again. NJH describe him as a big as a bull after the Newbury run.
If he gets beat in Kempton i'd not make excuses for him either tbh although it is still possible for him to improve again. NJH describe him as a big as a bull after the Newbury run.
Mullins was expecting Hurricane Fly to get beat yesterday. But he still won. That's the mark if a champion. Binocular is too quirky. Sprint help that his trainer has become rubbish the past season
CVByrne can you explain to me and anyone else who is puzzled at that statement. How does a trainer with decades of experience 'become rubbish' ?
It might just be that Hurricane Fly prefers a good bit of cut although he does go on good. The ground really could be the key as to who win the CH if they all get there.
It might just be that Hurricane Fly prefers a good bit of cut although he does go on good. The ground really could be the key as to who win the CH if they all get there.
The best mark of a champion is actually being one,Binocular is,the Fly aint.
He could well become one,but lets not start pooh poohing a horse that produced a great performance last March.
Unfair imo,especially as it was a pretty impressive performance.
He could well become one,but lets not start pooh poohing a horse that produced a great performance last March.
Unfair imo,especially as it was a pretty impressive performance.
One performance bud, he is not a horse to follow on every run.
Also Henderson hasn't a clue how fit his horses are. Bobby Dazzler had a go at him on here a few weeks back.
Also Henderson hasn't a clue how fit his horses are. Bobby Dazzler had a go at him on here a few weeks back.
I'm not knocking him, he is a deserved favorite for the champion and he put up a champions performance in march. But he has no consistency. He's a frustrating horse
He has trained 5 winners of the Champ Hurdle and has won more races at the festival out of all the trainers who are currently active. So forgive me CVB if i were to trust Hendersons judgement before yours. You make some good points usually CVB, but your comment about a trainer with 3 decades experience in training is something i would expect from some teenage newcomer to the game who knows nothing about racing. I genuinely thought you must have been on the sauce, yet you stand by your comment.
No consistency ?....He's won 7 from 12 and has been placed in 11 of those races.
Look, I'm just saying that last season he had an off year. Binocular, Punjabi, Long Run, Punchestowns. He didn't know how to get his team fit.
Bobby Dazzler who owns the gold cup winner has said this and I value his opinion quite a bit.
Before the fighting fifth he said he had binocular fit, after he said he needed it. He doesn't know where his horses are at.
Bobby Dazzler who owns the gold cup winner has said this and I value his opinion quite a bit.
Before the fighting fifth he said he had binocular fit, after he said he needed it. He doesn't know where his horses are at.
greaeme,i was going to say that!!
And really CV,what has mr henderson done to deserve that mate,they all make rickets,even pumpkin head,but he aint forgotten how to train a churdler,last 2 seasons proves that.he has some fair hurdlers this season as well.
And really CV,what has mr henderson done to deserve that mate,they all make rickets,even pumpkin head,but he aint forgotten how to train a churdler,last 2 seasons proves that.he has some fair hurdlers this season as well.
I'm saying he is a brilliant trainer but somethings been up this past year. He lost a bit of mojo
Unfair to criticise trainer based on the performances of above horses last season. Punchestowns was superb until his run in the RSA where he got an injury. Binocular was clearly carrrying niggling problems all last season yet still produced the stunning CH performance we are all debating. Long Run was seriously hyped last season and won 2 races by a clear margin. His jumping let him down both times around chelt imho. Punjabi simply isnt as good and last years best hurdlers.
I dont favour any one trainer over another but you cannot knock NJH. Especially his chelt festival record.
I dont favour any one trainer over another but you cannot knock NJH. Especially his chelt festival record.
For what its worth (probably not a lot!) I was at Newbury and watched NJH and McManus in the enclosure after the fighting fifth and thought they might look a bit disappointed or phillosophical. Not a bit of it; they were laughing and joking and totally relaxed, said it all for me!
CVB - has someone else stolen your identity? That's the worst post i've seen on here! And I responded to Bobby when he made an unqualified remark and his clarification spoke volumes. Find that thread and read the exchange!
Last season he had an 'off year' - yet he had 3 festival winners and more winners than he has ever had!!! I think he had 35 more winners than Nicholls!
I think we need to send a search party out for Mr Byrne - this is not the real CVB!!
Last season he had an 'off year' - yet he had 3 festival winners and more winners than he has ever had!!! I think he had 35 more winners than Nicholls!
I think we need to send a search party out for Mr Byrne - this is not the real CVB!!
Last yr had an off year - i think he is on record as saying it was his best ever season, with a 30% s/r (far higher than Nicholls) through the bulk of the yr...
See the Peddlars Cross thread for that exchange CVB.
Ok I retract my comments. I just felt a bit frustrated that he hadn't got a clue how binocular and punjabi were at all last season. I had an ap bet on both for the champion and layed out of binocular after his win over dee ee williams. So to see him win the champion hurdle hurt a bit. Then Bobby made comments that I agreed with to a degree.
The man is clearly a great trainer and I apologize for my remarks and fully retract them. I was wrong to say them.
The man is clearly a great trainer and I apologize for my remarks and fully retract them. I was wrong to say them.
It was only 9 months ago he was top trainer at the Festival.
The horses you mention did perfectly well last season. Puchestown won two races from 3 starts. Same for Long Run. Bino is a Champion. What more do you want!
The horses you mention did perfectly well last season. Puchestown won two races from 3 starts. Same for Long Run. Bino is a Champion. What more do you want!
Fair enough CVB, good call. We were going to send you for a random blood test there for a second [;)]
i suppose it's march that counts but it would be nice if he could be an even better champion in as much being able to dazzle us all on other days too!!.
Yeah duffy, that's what I man about him. You can't follow him like you can with Hurricane Fly and have many great days. He's too quirky.
I'll probably back binocular on the day as I think he's the highest threat to my Hurricane fly and Go Native bets.
Can't have the two chasers in the making, Menorah and Peddlers. Also Khyber Kim is held.
I'll probably back binocular on the day as I think he's the highest threat to my Hurricane fly and Go Native bets.
Can't have the two chasers in the making, Menorah and Peddlers. Also Khyber Kim is held.
Menorah,chaser??
PC maybe one day,after taking in a realistic tilt at the CH,in which he is a big threat.
PC maybe one day,after taking in a realistic tilt at the CH,in which he is a big threat.
Looks like it is not going to be an easy race to call next March, though certainly one to really look forward to. I would still narrowly have Binocular as favourite for this given the standard he set last March.
One thing I keep reflecting on is how Binocular's improvement in the 2010 renewal over his performance in the 2009 race can best be explained. There are three main factors to consider, perhaps. One, he got there in better shape in 2010 (despite the concerns about his well being in the weeks before), whereas the trainer seemed to think an interrupted preparation might have left Binocular a little short of peak fitness for the 2009 renewal.
Second factor would obviously be the ground; it was that bit drier in 2010. Third factor perhaps is the one that gets discussed less often, and that is that the horse was just physically that bit stronger in 2010. I saw him in the parade ring as a juvenile and then I didn't see him again until the 2010 Festival, As you would expect, he had clearly strengthened up considerably in that time, and I suspect a lot of that strengthening occurred in the year prior to his 2010 win in the CH.
I suppose the widespread assumption is that the better ground was by far the most important factor in bringing about Binocular's scintillating performance last March. I wonder if that might not though underplay the contribution made by the horse being that bit more physically mature for the 2010 renewal (and possibly even more mentally mature, as he certainly could be a bit buzzy when he first broke onto the scene).
It is an important issue because if the ground comes up a little softer than it was last March there will be many who will need to decide whether to stick with Binocular or look for an alternative who might be better suited by the prevailing conditions. My inclination would be to say that if the ground is only slightly softer than it was last March, there is no reason why that should significantly inconvenience Binocular. And I say that because I believe that the horse being physically stronger, and not simply the better ground, was the key to Binocular's outstanding performance in the 2010 renewal.
Binocular has strengthened up well and, in the process, he looks to have become an even better stayer over the stiff two miles than many thought he would be (Mordin's initial verdict on Binocular from a couple of years ago, for example, was that he was a speed horse who might not see out the trip in a fast run CH). The better ground remains important for the horse, I have no doubt, but even on genuine good to soft I think, if in good shape, Binocular could still prove very effective in a high standard, fast run CH given how well he has strengthened up over the last year or so.
While a horse is strengthening up to the extent that Binocular has, I presume it makes it that bit harder for the trainer to keep up with them in terms of fine tuning their training regime and calculating exactly what work they need at home. That should be far less of an issue this season, now Binocular is pretty much fully mature.
One thing I keep reflecting on is how Binocular's improvement in the 2010 renewal over his performance in the 2009 race can best be explained. There are three main factors to consider, perhaps. One, he got there in better shape in 2010 (despite the concerns about his well being in the weeks before), whereas the trainer seemed to think an interrupted preparation might have left Binocular a little short of peak fitness for the 2009 renewal.
Second factor would obviously be the ground; it was that bit drier in 2010. Third factor perhaps is the one that gets discussed less often, and that is that the horse was just physically that bit stronger in 2010. I saw him in the parade ring as a juvenile and then I didn't see him again until the 2010 Festival, As you would expect, he had clearly strengthened up considerably in that time, and I suspect a lot of that strengthening occurred in the year prior to his 2010 win in the CH.
I suppose the widespread assumption is that the better ground was by far the most important factor in bringing about Binocular's scintillating performance last March. I wonder if that might not though underplay the contribution made by the horse being that bit more physically mature for the 2010 renewal (and possibly even more mentally mature, as he certainly could be a bit buzzy when he first broke onto the scene).
It is an important issue because if the ground comes up a little softer than it was last March there will be many who will need to decide whether to stick with Binocular or look for an alternative who might be better suited by the prevailing conditions. My inclination would be to say that if the ground is only slightly softer than it was last March, there is no reason why that should significantly inconvenience Binocular. And I say that because I believe that the horse being physically stronger, and not simply the better ground, was the key to Binocular's outstanding performance in the 2010 renewal.
Binocular has strengthened up well and, in the process, he looks to have become an even better stayer over the stiff two miles than many thought he would be (Mordin's initial verdict on Binocular from a couple of years ago, for example, was that he was a speed horse who might not see out the trip in a fast run CH). The better ground remains important for the horse, I have no doubt, but even on genuine good to soft I think, if in good shape, Binocular could still prove very effective in a high standard, fast run CH given how well he has strengthened up over the last year or so.
While a horse is strengthening up to the extent that Binocular has, I presume it makes it that bit harder for the trainer to keep up with them in terms of fine tuning their training regime and calculating exactly what work they need at home. That should be far less of an issue this season, now Binocular is pretty much fully mature.
CV.if you followed HF you would have to be a very patient man!! Mind you he is worth following when he DOES run.
Not if you followed HF, I have from his novice days to today. Seen him in the flesh on 4 of his last 5 runs and he won those four. Patient, that I am, but good things come to those who wait. I hope my ap of 12/1 doesn't go the way of my previous two.
His form is 11111311 plenty made following the fly, especially given his sp on his last two runs. Binocular is an expensive horse to follow so far.
His form is 11111311 plenty made following the fly, especially given his sp on his last two runs. Binocular is an expensive horse to follow so far.
Also Hobbs said Menorah will jump a fence, he said he might this season if he didn't win the Greatwood off that mark as he wouldn't be a champion hurdle horse.
Ah i did'nt see that comment mate,fair enough.
Binocular has won 7 races from 11,not exactly a poor return.I dont personally follow him,just back him when the price is suitable.
Binocular has won 7 races from 11,not exactly a poor return.I dont personally follow him,just back him when the price is suitable.
Ah but two of those wins we at odds of like 1/9 or something. He's been beaten at odds on twice too which would hurt followers.
Only Ascot (bula) and Champion Hurdle wins could have got you money really while Supreme, Champion 09, both fighting fifths and the Christmas hurdle would has lost you money.
Also I backed Menorah at big odds for this years Arkle and backed him for the Greatwood, meaning if I lost that I'd have a great Arkle bet. I don't like Champion Hurdle horses who are going chasing in the future. I like ones born and built to ping a hurdle like Binocular and The Fly.
Only Ascot (bula) and Champion Hurdle wins could have got you money really while Supreme, Champion 09, both fighting fifths and the Christmas hurdle would has lost you money.
Also I backed Menorah at big odds for this years Arkle and backed him for the Greatwood, meaning if I lost that I'd have a great Arkle bet. I don't like Champion Hurdle horses who are going chasing in the future. I like ones born and built to ping a hurdle like Binocular and The Fly.
Me too,but i am open minded enough to think that horses such as Menorah and Peddlers Cross could be capable of winning a CH from what i have seen of them so far.They have improvement to come as well.
Hurricane Fly is only 70 pence up to level stakes than Binocular
True but it's when you get on them Graeme, if you see Hurricane Fly has only lost once in his career over hurdles, while he was beaten on the flat in France. I'd disregard the flat losses, also you'd have to think about how much you'd be backing. I'm going to put more money on when it's a grade 1 as he's sure to be fully fit for that.
Bud I agree, I'm not discouting them from winning it, I just don't fancy them especially at current prices.
Bud I agree, I'm not discouting them from winning it, I just don't fancy them especially at current prices.
Exactly CV. I find it hard to believe HF was not fully fit yesterday.
His record fresh is second to none, so it would be nice to see him go back-to-back again within a short time frame.
His record fresh is second to none, so it would be nice to see him go back-to-back again within a short time frame.
Soft ground does not overly concern me for Bino either. He has actually won on it Twice, albeit in lesser company.
Yes, Sintonian, it will very interesting when we get a chance to see Binocular really tested in another championship race on slightly softer ground than he had for the CH last March.
I can understand how it could be argued either way. One view being that his run in the CH last time was so exceptional that the drier ground must have made a major difference to the horse. The other, contrasting view being that his 2010 run owed most to the fact that this was the first time that the fully mature, fully fit Binocular had run at the Festival, with the better ground being no more than a contributory factor to how well he ran.
Mordin argued the good ground was probably the key to Binocular's performance in the 2010 renewal, stressing how it enabled the horse to use his turn of foot to such good effect. What impressed me most about Binocular's run though was how well he travelled through the race and just how much he had left in the tank in the latter stages - McCoy having to talk a pull on the horse going around the final bend.
The better ground might have helped Binocular travel well, but I would still argue that the line Mordin takes in stressing the 'turn of foot' angle risks underestimating just how physiologically well-suited a fully firing Binocular is in relation to the demands of a fast run CH. At his best, he clearly is a very clean winded horse with iron lungs by comparison with many of his rivals, or he would not have been able to record what was a pretty decent time off an end-to-end gallop in the CH, while also sprinting away up the hill with such gusto at the end of the race. It is not as if he was buried away at the back of the field, well off the pace and coming with a late run. McCoy was very careful to keep close tabs on the front ones in the second half of the race, keeping well up with the pace.
Even on slightly softer ground last time, it is hard to see how any of the other horses would have coped better with the lung bursting demands of the race than Binocular did on the day. The better ground no doubt helped, but not to the exclusion of a range of other factors that were key to his success on the day. His greater physical maturity being one of the most important of those factors, possibly.
Intriguingly, there looks like being more strength in depth in the 2011 renewal, so there'll be an even better chance to gauge just how good Binocular is, if they can get him there in tip-top condition.
I can understand how it could be argued either way. One view being that his run in the CH last time was so exceptional that the drier ground must have made a major difference to the horse. The other, contrasting view being that his 2010 run owed most to the fact that this was the first time that the fully mature, fully fit Binocular had run at the Festival, with the better ground being no more than a contributory factor to how well he ran.
Mordin argued the good ground was probably the key to Binocular's performance in the 2010 renewal, stressing how it enabled the horse to use his turn of foot to such good effect. What impressed me most about Binocular's run though was how well he travelled through the race and just how much he had left in the tank in the latter stages - McCoy having to talk a pull on the horse going around the final bend.
The better ground might have helped Binocular travel well, but I would still argue that the line Mordin takes in stressing the 'turn of foot' angle risks underestimating just how physiologically well-suited a fully firing Binocular is in relation to the demands of a fast run CH. At his best, he clearly is a very clean winded horse with iron lungs by comparison with many of his rivals, or he would not have been able to record what was a pretty decent time off an end-to-end gallop in the CH, while also sprinting away up the hill with such gusto at the end of the race. It is not as if he was buried away at the back of the field, well off the pace and coming with a late run. McCoy was very careful to keep close tabs on the front ones in the second half of the race, keeping well up with the pace.
Even on slightly softer ground last time, it is hard to see how any of the other horses would have coped better with the lung bursting demands of the race than Binocular did on the day. The better ground no doubt helped, but not to the exclusion of a range of other factors that were key to his success on the day. His greater physical maturity being one of the most important of those factors, possibly.
Intriguingly, there looks like being more strength in depth in the 2011 renewal, so there'll be an even better chance to gauge just how good Binocular is, if they can get him there in tip-top condition.
A lot is being made of the 'better strength in depth' to this years renwal. Don't forget last years race had the previous CH 1,2,3, the supreme nov 1,2 the Triumph hur winner, the Irish CH winner and the ****/greatwood winner; not a race lacking quality by any standards!
woodworm. i totally agree. people always seem to downgrade the form after a race. before i think most were saying it was the best champion hurdle for years.
correct chaps. And Kyber Kim is a seriously good yardstick imo.
Aka, yes I agree it is dangerous to underestimate Bino's physical improvement. He ran in his first cheltenham festival as a 4yo, and then placed in the Champion as a 5yo. If he lines up next march he will only be 7yo. If they think a horse could emmulate the great Istabraq then there is no need to put the gun to his head early in the season for the Fighting Fifth. Bino has plenty more time on his side.
Aka, yes I agree it is dangerous to underestimate Bino's physical improvement. He ran in his first cheltenham festival as a 4yo, and then placed in the Champion as a 5yo. If he lines up next march he will only be 7yo. If they think a horse could emmulate the great Istabraq then there is no need to put the gun to his head early in the season for the Fighting Fifth. Bino has plenty more time on his side.
I think Celestial Halo's pace really sets the race up for Binocular. Wonder if he'll go for it this year or wait for aintree.
Also I'd be wary of reading the form of last years champion too literally. Go Native got injured and Solwhit was sick. So horses like those two, Hurricane Fly, Peddlers Cross & Menorah are all dangers to him this year.
Also I'd be wary of reading the form of last years champion too literally. Go Native got injured and Solwhit was sick. So horses like those two, Hurricane Fly, Peddlers Cross & Menorah are all dangers to him this year.
What you can take from the race is knowing that Binocular and to a tad lesser extent KK can quicken at the end of a fair paced 2m Champion hurdle.Something that most of the opposition if not all still have question marks.
What you can take from the race is knowing that Binocular and to a tad lesser extent KK can quicken at the end of a fair paced 2m Champion hurdle.Something that most of the opposition if not all still have question marks.
Very true. But I still worry about binoculars inconsistency, though he has hit form in march three years on the bounce.
Sint, MM, Woodworm - i agree.
Regarding the value of the form given GN and Solwhits efforts (with clear reasons), i dont their non-show diminishes the form, as i dont think eiether had a hope in hell. However, that is I know entirely subjective and counts for nothing.
Regarding the value of the form given GN and Solwhits efforts (with clear reasons), i dont their non-show diminishes the form, as i dont think eiether had a hope in hell. However, that is I know entirely subjective and counts for nothing.
when you write down the names of the races won by the horses in last years champion it does look impressive...but when you have a look at the actual horses themselves and take into account some valid excuses they may have had...it doesn't look quite so impressive.
punjabi, medermit and celestial halo the respective stables deciding to send them chasing probably tells us where they think they fit in with regards the 2 mile hurdling division.
zaynar....especially with hindsight...becoming disappointing.
solwhit...returning from sickness and not a cheltenham good ground 2 miler.
go native.....injured early doors.
khyber kim.....fair enough i suppose.
i'd confidently put the fly, menorah,peddlers, silviano, possibly dunguib a fit go native up as a stronger set of opposition for binocular to take on.
punjabi, medermit and celestial halo the respective stables deciding to send them chasing probably tells us where they think they fit in with regards the 2 mile hurdling division.
zaynar....especially with hindsight...becoming disappointing.
solwhit...returning from sickness and not a cheltenham good ground 2 miler.
go native.....injured early doors.
khyber kim.....fair enough i suppose.
i'd confidently put the fly, menorah,peddlers, silviano, possibly dunguib a fit go native up as a stronger set of opposition for binocular to take on.
yes,stronger race for sure next march,but if Binocular is in similar form,and i suspect he will be,then he will be the one to beat i feel.
If binocular runs up to the form of march it'll take something special to beat him.
Looking forward to seeing Bino again tomorrow. NJH said on RUK today that horse is lighter (fitter?) than for the fighting fifth but thinks tomorrows race will be set up for the speed horses. Reiterated that chelt in March is the only target for this horse this season.
I personally would like to see him win; and win convincingly; but would be happy if he jumps well and doesnt discrace himself.
If his price drifts further after a defeat, I might go in again!
I personally would like to see him win; and win convincingly; but would be happy if he jumps well and doesnt discrace himself.
If his price drifts further after a defeat, I might go in again!
You cant back him tomorrow, they only have one race in mind for Binocular, all else is build up.
Agreed, hes a no bet tomorrow; but the race should be informative all the same.
If anything Khyber Kim and Starluck will be after the brownie points tomorrow the most.
Wont be tuned fully for this would think Twiston Davies will have been all out to get Khyber ready to win this to get him in the news for the CHurdle.
Looked great and sure theres a more in the tank.
Thought Overturn was flattered a bit to finish so close in the end......its just his style of running that kept him so close.
If he did that at the Festival he'd finish miles away from Binocular.
Thought Overturn was flattered a bit to finish so close in the end......its just his style of running that kept him so close.
If he did that at the Festival he'd finish miles away from Binocular.
Wonder if Henderson has got him ready too early? He realises what a good Champion Hurdle it is and probably wanted to show who is still boss.
Great positive ride by McCoy having him up with the pace and pressurising Overturn the whole way, he is a first class rider on any type of horse over hurdles. His race in March, only Menorah can stop him winning it again now.
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