Triumph Hurdle - Sam Winner

If Brampour is anything like Zaidpour .. watch out!!

why would brampour be as good as zaidpour just cos there names are similar dont mean ther both monsters does it

I've not said they would be similar because of their names.

But they are both from the Aga Khan production line and Zaidpour was to be a Triumph Hurdle contender last season but for injury. There are obvious similarites, and the fact they have the best stables.imo

Anywon know owt about D. Weld's Accompanied ?

Somewon wanting to get on at 20s on here...33s with 3-6-5

Unaccompanied even...

You're own you own Stakey

On your own ffs

trozulon ran well in a good bumper at cheltenham today what did henderson say about him in his rp column is he likely to now go jumping

Any word of when Brampour is likely to be seen out

Neine. Soon I expect .. cant you tweet Pumpkin ?

Patience, Grasshopper.

Brampour entered at Sandown on Saturday.

Cheers Mr Nicholls ^

no mention of indian daudaie? backed it a few weeks ago for the triumph and dan skelton posted a video of it schooling today so guessing its ready to be unleashed soon? nicholls mentioned it in his column when he said to wait and see if brampour lives up to expectation before believing the hype. indian daudaie won an 18k hurdle in france and then was 2nd in 107k grade 1, sounds interesting...

Nope

Avoiding Comedy Act imo [>o]

Sam Loser tomorrow. Smad Place for the Triumph.

Plenty 'the rocket' Pocket http://bit.ly/gIOFu3

Brampour likely to run at Kempton on the 15th Jan. Also got an entry for Monday at Taunton but unlikely to take up the entry. This one is flying at home trust me.

truimph hurdle market in turmoil

Never have a decent bet on the Triumph, might chuck a hundred quid at it sometimes but no more ... lottery normally antepost.

Farcical race though. No pace then a sprint up the home straight in testing ground. Nothing like what awaits them at Cheltenham.

I'm inclined to believe Sam Winner and Smad Place are very equal horses after that and would not look to that form for anything imo. That race was a no race, slow pace, sprint. Don't be too dis-heartened if you have backed sam winner for the triumph though the race is looking more and more wide open the closer we get.

totally agree R&W

no truimph hurdle winners there though was there i had a feeling sam winner werent up to much when he was all out to bat pullyourfingerout last month hes first proper test and hes tailed off

Unless its a newcomer not seen yet we prob did see the triumph hurdle winner today imo

Looks like its gonna be a below par race this year

grandouet or indian daudaie would be mine at the moment, or possibly brampour

hopefully its something we aint seen yet

MOOSE MORAN

oh yeh, that one aswel. have backed grandouet, indian daudaie, moose moran n dolatulo atm, and a small bet on trozulon after the bumper at cheltenham last week in case goes hurdling. a few covered but all at fair prices so all profit

trozulon ran really well last week i was tempted to back him but i dont know if henderson will go jumping with him

Is it not too late now to be talking about if a horse is going to go hurdling? Cheltenham is only 1 month away with respects to trainers wanting to get decent gaps in between runs and to go to a championship race on the back on one run over obstacles is a bit of a mine field imo! Especially a race like the triumph!

Sam Winner for me. Put up the best performance of teh year on debut. Won twice round Cheltenham, I'm not gonna jusge him on a 3f sprint in heavy ground

cant have sam winner on my mind id be very surprised if he even turned up at cheltenham dident nicholls say after his last win at cheltenham that he needs softer ground after making heavy weather of winning there recently on a decent surface

not really seathestars SOLDATINO  dont it last season dident he trozulon = exactly the same connections

Nicholls was wrong. He doesnt need it soft at all. Has for not even turning up at Cheltenham? Jesus what has been better than Sam Winner this season on debut? Thats nonsense

I still think Smad Place has a decent chance in the Triumph.

He looks a relentless galloper to me, who will love the Cheltenham hill. He just never had the turn of foot when it turned into a sprint today.

Ok sorry Alvarado i stand corrected.[:x] But what are the stats on this happening? I know this race has a record of bottoming horses before their careers even get started, it can be a very rough race!

For me the novices this season are not up to much. Cue Card on all known form (especially behind menorah over course and distance) should be imo much shorter than he currently is for the supreme and is by far and away the best novice we have seen out so far! Zaidpour is the clear danger but no one as yet knows the plans for this one, my hunch is he will take on CC in the supreme but i could well be wrong! I intend having a nibble on CC next week if the 5/2 currently available is still around, any shorter i am willing to wait until the day but will not play at anything shorter than 7/4 in a day of race market!

excuses excuses sj
sam winner makes impressive hurdling debut on SOFT ground
then makes very hard work of it beating a 110 animal on good/soft
nicholls stats after the race he NEEDS softer ground .then today on heavy ground and up against the toughest field hes faced hes found out NOT GOOD ENOUGH and his supports and the yard now say he wants good ground

make up ya mnd

So you're taking a trainer's word as gospel rather than using your eyes and watching the race? If that horse runs better on heavy than on good or good to soft I'm a dutchman.

Was hoping they might have pushed Smad Place out to neraer 20/1 - he was patently outpaced when the sprint began but stayed on wel, and a more robust test on better ground at Cheltenham will be much more to his liking. Might have a small bet at 14/1.

Uncle

Corals did push Smad out to 20s and held the price for about half an hour.

As he is my only bet so far in the race I find myself wondering what price he would be if he had lined up at Sandown instead where the truly run pace would have (IMO) been right up his street.

It was only Smads second run over hurdles, and he has just placed in a Grade 1.The others horse around him have more experience.

He was the first of the bridle yesterday but stayed on, and if there was one horse most unsuited by the slow early pace, it was him,imo.

If you watch his Newbury win, he gets better and better the further he goes. The horse is more stamina laden, than speed, which is why King compared him to Franchoek, as opposed to his more speedier previous Triumph winners.

A fast run race, and uphill finish will be right up his street at Cheltenham. I considered going in again yesterday, but do wonder if there  maybe one or two others with a touch of class come March that will beat him, so refrained.

I am far from downcast though and still happy with my bet at this stage. I expect Alan King will say something similar.

The winner did it well, though, and deserved it. But if the form is turned around at somestage i'd not be surprised.

I wasnt convinced by Smad Place's first run. I didnt think he travelled as well as the pundits claimed after the race, and I felt he was flattered by the winning distance as Dolatulo stopped to a walk after clattering 2 out and SP just kept on galloping. After yday however I am coming round to him as a Triumph horse as a fast pace up the Cheltenham hill will suit his style imo.  He looks more like a Zaynar than a Walkon, however I am still not sure whether he will have the ability to win at the festival.

God knows what to make of the Triumph,i just backed a horse i have never seen its that desperate!!

fwiw,i dont see any of those yesterday figuring

Is 12/1 Sam Winner now a massive price?  A Media Luz would have gone very close if not winning today, Grandouet mashed her lto, and SW mashed him the time before. In addition, SW's beating of G came over C&D and with conditions similar to as you would expect come march.

Grandouet beat A media Luz fairly and with ease, what of the horse that won a listed race first time out by 9L, beating Grandouet by 15L.Moai Chinn Tire still the value in the Triumph,TWICE the odds of others with less form.

truimph hurdle market is in turmoil surely the winner hasant run yet

Grandouet ran with the choke totally out at Wetherby but seems to have got his act together now...think that line of form with Maoi Chin Tire is best avoided in calculations. Would be my main choice and next target appears to be the Adonis Hurdle at Kempton which has provided plenty of Triumph winners recently. Only worry would be McCoy's comments that he may prefer a flat track?? Third Intention and Local Hero haven't done much wrong for me and appear as the value outsiders...would both be priced less if with sexier stables but their connections are more than capable.
Alas all the books have given up with offering first four in this race now :(

Be interesting to see MCT back out, but I think taking the form literally is a bit folly. As Rod says Grandouet gave himself no chance of winning by racing so freely, and has since improved by a change of tactics and the more exoerience. I backed him at Cheltenham next time as I expected a bolder show as well as being ridden with more restaint, and Sam Winner completely blew him away.

read somewhere that nicholls said cedre bleu was one to follow this season, might have said anthony bromley said to? cant remember, but is in triumph market, and based on all runs so far, i'd rather wait for that and indian daudaie to come out as think they could be special

Can anybody confirm if A Media Luz was ok after the fall yesterday? (did not see it)

I was very impressed with MCTs win but take the points made regarding Grandouet running with the choke out. However a 15L beating is a great deal of improvement to make bearing in mind this was Maoi Chinn Tires first race and to win a Listed race by 9L.
The point being made is that Grandouet is 10/1 for the Triumph Maoi Chinn Tire is available at 50/1.

A Media Luz got up straight away and looked fine. The trainer must be tearing his hair out as the mare failed to settle again yet looked like she was going to win on the snaff.

I may be slightly biasd but surely Marsh Warbler has to have a great chance. He has by far the best form of the season so far?

MW loved the going, the others didnt. Owners said he probably wouldnt run on good ground.

Still havent changed my mind after saturday

Not saying hes an antepost bet but if he turns up ie g/s or worse on teh day Im a backer.

well it dont get any clearer,still aint got a clue!! obviously something has to win the race but i cant see anything at the moment.
Wait till the day imo

Maoi Chinn Tire at Haydock is the most interesting runner tomorrow...could be anything (or nothing) facinating stuff

Grandouet now Triumph fav, but Sam Winner blitzed him over C&D with on likely festival conditions...

yeah but grandouet will be trying this time and racing off levels unlike the last time they meet were he had to give 8lb

Dont worry guys the winner is out at Wetherby tomo.

TIGRE D'ARON - hopefully

graham wylie needs another top horse

moose moran and table mountain both entered this week. still dont see how titan de sarti is around 17/18 on here, yet was well beaten last week by cedre bleu who isnt even going to the festival!

i still believe we havent seen the winner of the truimph hurdle yet it looks such a weak division so far something must come along those 2 are very intresting as is howard johnsons who runs today

is it such a weak division? already horses rated 145,146,147,148 and 151 by early january. i'm surprised people are still looking for new horses to improve past that lot. how is brampour still 16/1?

saying it is a weak division is silly imo. These are novoices who are learning and you cant have an outstanding horse in every race. But as you say Dan some of them have done plenty already.

No idea about Brampour, wouldn't back that at 50/1 let alone 16/1.

dan the stable star goes for the 12.55 he might give your boy something to think about ;)

i dont go on ratings there a joke its just one persons opionon .you,ve got a fav who has been beaten twice and a 2nd fav he was stuffed last time an unbaten brian ellison 60 rated flat horse and horses like brampour still 16/1 and a media luz beaten 3 times lets just say its far from vintage and there is definetly room at the top for a star to emerge

One thing that seems to be missed is nearly EVERY NOVICE race at this years festival has been talked about as a far from vintage or below standerd race.
This is because most of the novices have struggled to get rund and some havnt moved over fences etc.
I dont think we can comment untill after the festival and then we will know which races are below average.

major problem for me in working this race out,is a lot of the horses are running on unsuitable ground,and ground which is unlikely to be the same at chelt in march.yes,it applies to other races,but its much more significant for juveniles with hardly any runs under their belt.on that basis i would not rule any out at this stage,and if you are picking now then a lot of guesswork is involved.honestly think with this race its best to hold bets until the day.

oh well :(

I think I read somewhere at the start of the season that Empire Levant was expected to do big things, don't recall seeing it run though I know it came 3rd, does anyone have any more info on this horse as 40s looks an interesting price

Pedro

I think its an intended runner on Saturday at Chelt

Tillahow will be going over for the Triumph Hurdle !

Mouse Morris "I think we'll only be sending First Lieutenant (He'll probably run in the middle one (Neptune) but nothing is set in stone), China Rock and the four-year-old Tillahow."

Cheers Sawyer,
I'll probably have a small bet before Saturday and then sit back and see if it was worth it!!

think empire levant made a mistake which cost it any chance of winning. got a feeling most of nicholls juveniles will come on for their first run. empire levant was very green fto, as was plenty pocket saturday at ascot. had no chance with grandouet after pulling like mad first circuit. i like the other nicholls horse more, but as empire levant has had the run, if they are both entered i might side with that one

where was Marsh Warbler a 60 rated flat horse.   Rated 87 at peak, considered good enough over 6f to run in the Coventry and they made Frankie ride it.   Mother was G2 class on the flat.   Bar that he was useless on the flat and hasnt the class for a hurdles race

i,ve got a feeling someone is slighty biased to MW

take it from me brian ellison will not train a chelt festival winner hes a sedgefield man if he does chelts has changed

your going back 3 years ago nob head is this the same horse that won a SELLER at leicester and was rated 70 (flattered) at the end of his flat carrer i think most horses who run in sellers are deemed USELESS

aye deemed useless by most people. Not deemed useless by me who had a big bet on him in the seller then used part of the winnings to buy the horse in the auction then backed him in all 4 hurdles starts.

And im the nob head 

Well said Koo, cracking hurdler good luck in Triumph still overpriced at 14s in place.

Form boost for Sam winner at Gowran

good for u hes still useless on the flat and trained by ellison which means he wont get in first 6

not a good crop of novices then

last leg of my treble :) also bet for the triumph as think (as with most of nicholls juveniles so far) was far too green and would come on for the run, also unlucky fto)

that was a shocking race and he was all out to win and had the run of the race with palawi running too keen fred winter yes truimph NO WAY

Third Intention @ 25s. Cracking bet. Trounced Empire and Titan at newbury having done very little work. Plenty of speed, jumps properly. Would have beat Local Hero silly if they had gone a proper gallop. Bet of the festival at this point for me. Should be half the price now and will go off 7/1.

Tizzard quoted on his website so we know the plan.

"Saturday we got really excited by Third Intention who led at the last on Trials day at Cheltenham and looks to have a rock solid chance at the festival"

Any thoughts?

i thought that but for the blunder empire levant would have won first time out, also green and as with  most nicholls juveniles came on for the run. hacked up next time out. third intention is good, but duno if could win the triumph imo

Alvarado knows!

a media luz back into 13.5 on here seems like theyve had a change of heart .............. maybe !!!

improving filly know doubting that, just think its not a race for fillies.Too rough and unless they ride her out of trouble, and even then she giving lengths away similar to Dunguib last year in supreme.

Dubara Reef (IRE)
Paul Green
scratched
 

Empire Levant (USA)
Paul Nicholls
scratched
 

Indian Daudaie (FR)
Paul Nicholls
scratched
 

McTaggart (IRE)
William Coleman O'Brien, Ireland
scratched
 

Music of The Moor (IRE)
Tom Tate
scratched
 

Plenty Pocket (FR)
Paul Nicholls
scratched
 

Rock of Deauville (IRE)
Paul Nicholls
scratched
 

Tout Rouge (FR)
Guillaume Macaire, France
scratched
 

Chaperoned (IRE)
Mrs J. Harrington, Ireland
scratched

very surprised to still see 20s available on Third Intention after Saturday's run. Pulled like a train there and still ran a blinder on ground where many werent getting home - looked a class act to me. Jumps great, fast pace and better going in the Triumph should be much more suitable and ought to be the same price as the other Finale Hurdle protagonists for me taking Houblon des Obeaux as a guide

watching pn preview on here - despite what he said earlier looks like Sam Winner will now run at Chelt. Where is that antipost slip?

Grandouet (6) , Zarkandar (7) , Unaccompanied (15/2) , A Media Luz (10) , Sam Winner (10) , Smad Place (13) , Marsh Warbler (14) , Third Intention (14) , Brampour (16) , Houblon Des Obeaux (29) , Moose Moran (30) , Molotof (33) , Trop Fort (33) , Local Hero (34) , Sailors Warn (44) , Architrave (50) , Higgys Ragazzo (50) , Kumbeshwar (50) , Mister Carter (50) , Tigre Daron (50)  - Others 50 or more





Looked very special imho

Glad to see that it looks as though Sam Winner is running now, although PN is prone to the odd 'curve ball', so I'm not counting chickens!

My 8/1 isn't looking that juicy now, but on the plus side (after-timing alert), I had my second bet in the race at the weekend on stable-mate Zarkandar @ 12/1, thought he was very impressive in the Adonis.

And YES Travis, i do think he is the one to beat


(ANOTHER IRISH Winner to add to the 7 that should be in the bag by then !)

been left in the supreme, any chance of him going for it? i quite like him with the 4yo allowance

just found a few ante post multiples, and have cue card, time for rupert, master minded, quevega, imperial commander in most, with sam winner in nearly all :/ could go down to needing him alone on the friday for ALOT (for me anyway) so hope he at leasts runs!