Zaidpour - Neptune Novices Hurdle

anybody else hope this unhelpful **** draws a blank at the festival unlikely i know

I thought that was very helpful

actually think i'll back So Young for the Supreme now, Team Mullins are strangers ot the truth

wonder how much they've got laying Final Approach for the Totesport Trophy

Now now pf, no need to sound bitter.

'You can't handle the truth!'.

Either way both look outstanding prospects, and if Bishopsfurze ever learned to hurdle properly he would be another great prospect

Hopefully Zaidpour hacks up on Saturday and sticks to the Supreme leaving the Neptune as a penalty kick for So Young

Supreme it is for Zaidpour then,hate to say,but 'i told you so'

Never in doubt that was his target.

2.5pts @ 8/1 is now my play in the Supreme.

Wrong race then if that's the case

Has it been confirmed about Zaidepour going to Supreme?

nope,not that i have seen.

Dont matter anyway,Cue Card looks better(his form certainly does anyway) and Sprinter Sacre is a proper 2 miler,one of those will win imo

its on the racing post website  supreme is the target

oh,had not noticed that,still as i said dont matter anyway.

Found it, thanks.

Mullins reveals festival plans for top novice pair


SO YOUNG is likely to be aimed at the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival after an easy victory at Punchestown on Wednesday confirmed him as a horse with a big future.

The Willie Mullins-trained five-year-old, who is 10-1 for the Neptune, is likely to be kept apart from stablemate Zaidpour, who the trainer said is set to be aimed at the SupremeNovices' Hurdle, for which he is 8-1. 

Zaidpour is set to run in Saturday's Deloitte Novice Hurdle at Leopardstown and Mullins said: "We'll keep our options open and see what happens on Saturday, but my feeling is So Young will go for the Neptune and Zaidpour will go for the Supreme."

The news came after So Young marched to a five-length win over Big Game Hunter.

Mullins added: "So Young shows more on the track than at home. It looked like he had plenty of gears there."

A minute's silence was observed before the second race at Punchestown in memory of amateur rider Jack Tyner, who died on Monday after sustaining serious head injuries in a fall at a point-to-point at Dungarvan six days earlier.

Riders, officials and trainers gathered in the centre of the parade ring for the tribute. All riders wore black armbands as a mark of respect.

So Young will go for the Neptune and Zaidpour will go for the Supreme."

Fill in the Gaps please

Supreme
Zaidpour
?

Neptune
Gagewell Flyer
So Young

Albert
Raptor
?

So Young looked the business to me.

Foolishly I have had a decent bet on him at 10s for the Neptune (foolish = Zaidpour fluffing his lines on Saturday resulting in a switch of targets).

You just never know with Mullins - he has so many top class novice hurdle prosoects to juggle about with.

If Zaidpour dosen't win on Saturday the plans will all get shuffled about.

If it was really genuinely soft/heavy for the first day (unlikely I know but it's got to happen one year) then So Young could be better off in the Supreme?

yeah agree Dark D lets pray ZAIPOUR canters in :) ive bkd thn both Zaipour @ 40/1 supreme and so young 15's and 10's  neptunes [:D]

Uncle

As stated on many threads by me (you must be sick of reading them!) I see Cue Card as the most solid favourite for a novice event in many years. I believe that in a "toss the coin" situation between the Supreme and the Neptune most trainers will opt to avoid taking on a 159 rated horse with winning festival form (there - I did it again    ).

DD - can't fault you for effort

I'm on So Young at 20's for the Neptune and have him in shedloads of doubles, trebles and accas including some that need Cue Card to win the Supreme.

I still maintain that on genuinely very soft rain sodden ground So Young would be the one Cue Card has to beat in the Supreme.

Lets hope Zaynar wind s nicely on Saturday and we get the normal good to soft conditions - then everyone runs where they should and there are no excuses

Are we all getting stuck into the mean lean pink flying machine tomorrow then..Just seen hes still 11/8 with Billys..Getting towards 11/10 on here i can see him going off 4/6..Have a feeling even the Mullins stable cat will be on this 1 tomorrow..

11/8 is massive, will go off 4/7 imo

woof woof

The NEPTUNE is the right race for him [;)]

What excuses are you making today Eric?

Ordinary. Very ordinary. The Irish assault on this year's festival is pathetic!!

And some people were saying cue card is too slow......needs further for sure

Mullins couldnt tip sh it out of a wheelbarrow

Going by the stand Paul had to give him a squeeze as he wasn't going the pace, the pace in the Neptune will suit, he should then hurdle better, he's bread to stay and looks to want further, looks pretty obvious what to do to me

Nowhere near good enough at either trip IMO.

The Zaidpour bubble has burst ..Neptune has to be the race now..Really thought he was going to cruise in today

That could be true DD but i don't see why the Supreme would suit better out of the 2

Just not upto either for me

Just looks very one paced and can't jump too well either - not a Cheltenham winner whatever race they choose.

I fear So Young could be switched back to the Supreme. Hopefully he will be kept for the more winnable race. Time will tell.

on at huge prices for the supreme,may as well bin them all,the horse fooled me,will probably be switched to the neptune now,but has no chance in either race,simply not good enough

FormMan- We can all be wrong about horses from time to time some of us tend not to mention this,it takes a brave man to put their hands up and acknowledge this.You have my upmost respect and i'm sure there will be plenty more sunny days ahead for you!all the best

TheFormMan - A few weeks ago I remember you calling people, including myself, every name under the sun for daring to disagree with you that Zaidpour was the 2011 Supreme Novice Hurdle winner in waiting, and while I echo the comment above, im afraid you were a little too bullish, and far from being a brave man, you are in fact a complete d**k!! Now, p**s off back up Willie Mullins arse! Tata!

actually dwn it was more to do with me arguing the point that you along with many others think that cue card is some sort of shoe in for the supreme when it is as clear as crystal that he has no pace over 2 miles and clearly needs further to show his best.

Fair enough, I apologise. Just read about the double fatality in today's Hennessey to go with the horrible scenes at Newbury earlier, and to be honest arguing about it all right now just don't seem right.

no need fella,im very aware that i can be a d1ck at times and just read about glencove and m trix a short while back,bad day all round

Am I the only one who thinks that may have been the best novice race this year and Zaidpour still ran very well? it might just be the winner is special?

Don't give up just yet TFM. I think the pace was exremely demanding and the only thorough stayer came through on heavy ground. Maybe Zaidpour wants faster going and it was his class that saw him running on? WM seems to think the ground suited him but he has been way off the mark with Mourad and Kempes. He thought they both wouldn't act on heavy ground when they both then bolted up.
I hope they still go for the Supreme, he only lost the battle after all.

Mullins not happy with him at all yesterday with his comments after.
Was being pushed along a fair way out while others were cantering,in particular OW who was different class,and must have a great chance at Cheltenham.
As for Zaidpour,not even sure he will go there now,and if he does he has to run either Neptune or AB,would have absolutely no chance over 2m,and if OW runs in neptune he cant win that either.
Looks to me like another Mullins hype horse has bit the dust!!

There is no doubting it was a great field of novices 'catch me' the winner is top top class and zaidpour,hidden universe and shot from the hip are very good horses as well,all i am saying is that zaidpour is not the freak that i thought he was,
Also brigust i agree that he will enjoy a better bit of ground,most irish horses would,its just that its always such a bog over there that they rarely get the chance to ride on better ground,the fact is that zaidpour was off his feet and hard at it coming round the home turn where as the othere 3 i mention above were travelling well at that point,did not have the speed in that grade to cope with those quicker horses over 2m 2f and will certainly not have the pace over 2m at cheltenham against even faster horses,his class and the fact that there was an extra 2f was why he got second,still may go for the supreme but what would be best for the horse would be the neptune and im sure mullins will switch him and let everybody know during this week

I've backed him in both but I hope he goes for the Supreme. WM has always said he is the quickest he has at home and he has some 'real' tools at home. Don't forget they don't gallop over 2m at home. The ground yesterday was desperate and WM always said Mourad and Kempes wanted good ground but look at their best wins. And if Zaidpour is that much better than So Young, for example, he must be pretty good.
And Bud, your 'hype' comments sound stupid. You don't know how good the winner is yet and yesterday the first two beat some pretty good horses. He may not be a champion but he is definitely not hype. And don't forget had the winner not run yesterday, or fallen, everyone on here would be wanting to back him at very short prices for the Supreme so get real.
There can, after all, only be one champion. Doesn't make all the rest useless or hyped.

he has been hyped on here for months now,thats what i meant.
he has yet to win a decent race,or what i consider decent anyway.

brig,he was being scrubbed along while others were cantering,and thats over a longer distance than the supreme!!
be run off his feet over 2m repeating that yesterday,and anyone who backs him for the supreme after a)that performace and b)after listening to mullins,needs their head tested imo

This is not hype. Hype is when a horse comes to the course with a big reputation but fails to deliver. Not when a horse proves he is very, very good but probably not as good as punters expected.
Hype is not when a horse is among the best in Ireland and has beaten almost everything around. That is not hype.

And my opinion remains. I think they should go for the Supreme. They have nothing else in the race and why would they take on So Young? Makes sense to me and when you consider he had 1 mile form in France then 2 miles may be ideal. Unless of course you are suggesting he would have won yesterday's race at 2 and a half miles?

These are recent comments made:

Willie Mullins, trainer of Zaidpour, said: "I don't think the drop to two miles will be any worry. He won over a mile on the Flat in France and he's bred to get two and a half miles, which he won over last time."

Report: Fairyhouse, Wednesday

Bar One Racing Royal Bond Novice Hurdle (Grade 1) 2m, 4yo+

ZAIDPOUR needed little encouragement to land the Royal Bond, creating a superb impression and giving backers of Cue Card for the Supreme Novices' Hurdle something to fret about.

Paul Townend settled the exciting four-year-old, 4-7 favourite for the contest, at the rear of the six-runner field, where he comfortably went about his business before blitzing the opposition in the straight.

Despite a minor blunder at the second-last, Zaidpour remained on the bridle and drew comfortably clear at the last flight to win with an authority that will thrill race fans and unnerve rival connections in equal measure.

On what was a great afternoon for trainer Willie Mullins and jockey Paul Townend, Zaidpour created waves for the Cheltenham Festival after an effortless success in the Royal Bond.

I think he only has Cue Card to beat and nothing so far has changed my mind. Yesterday's ground was desperate.

And also if, as a punter, you back horses when they lose and then miss them when they win that is life. 

We'll have to wait and see Bud, won't we.

go back and read some of the comments on this thread about the horse.Monster,machine etc etc,based on what??
what on earth did he beat in his only victory??

theirs plenty of hyped comments on here,that as i said is what i am on about.

I think you need to listen to mullins comments after the race yesterday before backing him mate

still not giving up brig,im certain that the zaidpour we saw in his last 2 starts is not the real zaidpour that was seen in his first 2 starts,just like mullins i am just very confused as to why,lets just hope it is the better bit of ground as his best performance came on the best ground he has run on all season,the whole yard and connections thought he would bolt up yesterday as you could tell by the gamble and mullins raves about this horse at home,he really really loves him and thinks the world of him so here is hoping he gets it right come march

sorry,his 2 victories!!

soon as he comes up aginst decent horses he is exposed. yes,he could be much better on different ground,thats a fair comment,but do you really think a supreme winner should be struggling a fair way out over a longer distance,and then running on past beaten horses,even if the grounds not ideal.
smacked of a stayer to me.

I have read what WM said but trainers are not always right. WM clearly stated Mourad and Kempes do not like heavy ground but look at their form. I'm not prepared to right off a horse without good reason. And you cannot blame some of the commentators when they only said what the saw. Of course Zaidpour may not be the superstar he looked like being but he cannot go from brilliant to rubbish just like that.
He is a very good horse and, Cue Card excepted, look through the Supreme runners and tell me what has better form.
You will therefore be horrified to know that I have taken some of the 30+ available, thank you, horses don't often go from hero to zero, by being beaten into 2nd by horses we don't yet know how good they are for goodness sake. You cannot say yesterday's race was not a hot contest. 
And don't forget we don't yet know how good he is on better ground. He can't have always been galloping at home on heavy ground for goodness sake.

Id never write off any horse trained by Willie Mullins. Was thinking of having a nibble on him at big odds myself. Fwiw , i think Townend was terrible again yesterday

Another novice hurdle winner there for WM. If Z is his best, and he has always been campaigned that way, he cannot be that bad surely?

An excellent comment on the Irish forum to the effect that if Zaidpour had won his last 2 races in the same style as Oscar Wells we would be welcoming the 2nd coming of Istabraq.

Sometimes the wrong horse gets the attention.

Spot on DD. Thats what I was trying to say earlier on the thread.

It's no surprise he out-sprinted a bunch of rags on his first two starts given his flat form. Then he comes up against a few decent horses and is put in his place twice. Excuses will be made because he is so highly thought of but this wouldn't be the first time a horse just isn't as good as they thought. Clearly is a smart horse though, not denying that. OW very impressive yesterday, yet it's still Zaidpour that gets the attention. Agree with DD.

Not sure it's the best novice form though, I don't really rate Shot from the Hip or Hidden Universe.

Following Zaidpour over a cliff. Still adding to book. Keep the faith!

At least it's been sorted now that the Neptune, rather than the Supreme, is the better option for Zaidpour. The only problem is that Oscars Well will be running in that race and he's an absolute machine of a horse!

plenty of possible machines in the neptune,i think that minella class is an absolute freak!

Have I missed something? Where does it say Zaidpour runs in the Neptune? I backed him and Cue Card for both some time ago but I did think he would run in the Supreme. Works out better for me financially but I did think he would run on the Tuesday.

brigust1
Have I missed something? Where does it say Zaidpour runs in the Neptune? I backed him and Cue Card for both some time ago but I did think he would run in the Supreme. Works out better for me financially but I did think he would run on the Tuesday.

Well he didn't have the speed to win over 2m2f on Sunday, he's won doing handstands over 2m4f and he's bred to win over 3m. No-brainer

Well he didn't have the speed to win over 2m2f on Sunday, he's won doing handstands over 2m4f and he's bred to win over 3m. No-brainer
Didn't know Red Ransom was a sire of 3m hurdlers

His dame is tho

Supreme or Neptune - he's going to have to improve massively to take a hand in either imo.

If my memory serves Menorah was hammered at 1/2f before winning the Supreme.
For a moment there I thought someone knew something, then I didn't.
You the one with the brains Child? Just asking so I know who to listen out for in future.
Hold that thought.

oupaced over 2m 2f,runs on at the end,and trainer says Supreme??

Bie weird imo

Won doing handstands over 2m4f, beating a 94 rated horse(who had 5lb taken off) in the process. Very slowly run race, no indication as to his best trip at all.

Guys, normally it isn't until they cross the line in the Supreme that you realise the wonder horse isn't quite that (Sweet Wake etc). In this case you've got all of the evidence you need prior to the race; this is no superstar. The last two runs are surely all you need to know that the horse will not win a festival race irrespective of distance.

No I'm not Tom Segal but I do agree with most of his comments in the Post today. I'm happy with the prices I have about Zaipour, see above, and Cue Card but I think they will be declaring CC for the Champion any day soon.
Sounds like WM is seriously considering the Supreme so that at least gives me something to go to war with.

Any fool can knock a horse, Brownes Gazette, why don't you tell me, and any other forum readers, what is going to beat it?
Zaidpour has only been beaten by 2 horses who aren't in the race so help me out here.

i agree with brownes, he might win the supreme, BUT unless youve already backed him, why would u want to after been beat twice with seemingly no excuses,with the likes of cue card, spirit son and my personal choice at this stage although i dont ante post beat, sprinter sacre.

Like Zaidpour, Sprinter Sacre and Spirit Son have easily won minor races but as yet they have beaten nothing of note. At least Zaidpour has beaten a whole host of good profile winners albeit beaten himself in those races.
I would much rather my prices about Z than those on offer about the two SS's.
Unlike Brownes though, I would not say they 'couldn't' win the Supreme because they do look very good so far.

What's Segal said today? I've no access to a paper all day... x

He has selected Zaidpour (16s) and Al Ferof (25's) for the Supreme.

A quick precis:

He says at first he discarded him then, having thought about it, will give him one more chance.
He was impressed with his first two runs, hasn't travelled in his last two on heavy ground but thinks the talent is still there. Mullins is convinced we haven't seen the best of him yet and, if the ground has been holding him back we could be in for a massive run.

My sentiments entirely.

brigust1
Any fool can knock a horse, Brownes Gazette, why don't you tell me, and any other forum readers, what is going to beat it

Hard to say which ones will beat it,after all this is Cheltenham!!

But after seeing him struggling to go with horses over further,i would think proper 2 milers will outpace him,so could be a fair few.
Think the question i would like answered,is How is a horse that got oupaced by stayers,be expected to win a supreme.

Because he never acted on the ground, Bud. Thats how.

And could you find me any form lines which show the two horses who beat him have been beaten by any of the other contenders.
You see, what you say, is just speculation.
I bet loads of people were dissing Menora before last years Supreme when he was beaten by Lush Life.
I admit there are lots of dangers including Cue Card and I have backed him at 10s and 30+ so he isn't a odds on favourite but the arguments raised against lack substance and are just opinions.
That is why I like this forum. Opinions can be expressed and discussed but to say he has NO chance is ridiculous.

well i mean hes a nice horse but hes been beat easily now, like the winner at the weekend won doing hand stands against him, who is now a duel g1 winner as it happens so clearly a good horse. not really a profile of a supreme winner either, i prefer hendersons unexposed 2  myself! and the fact hes been beat easily puts me right off now, got laughed at but its not impossible to see him win it, i doubt it tho.

and i cant have he didnt act on the ground, hes won a g1 swingin on the bridle on soft and also won another race on soft not extended. he was also beat a 1/4 L in a g1 on heavy, he handles the conditions alright. got destroyed on sat, 'moderate 2nd' as the race result says is very fair imo.

You may be right but he has been touted as WM's best novice for a while and I can't believe he gallops on heavy ground at home.
Tom Segal in today's Post also thinks he may be better on better ground but until he runs we won't know, will we?

no i agree, he was absolutely brilliant in the some of his races. hes got a lot of ability, he can defo win it but his last couple runs have just put me off. maybe the ground will revive him. would also be interesting who ruby rides, if hes on him it should be a good start for his followers.

On reflection his form is actually solid enough, stronger than Spirit Son and Sprinter Sacre (though of course they have  a massive 'P' next to their rating and could be anything). He has a very fair e/w chance on the book so the double figure prices this morning weren't bad value at all. I guess it was inflated a bit becuase he had two options - now looks to be a definite runner in the Supreme.

I've still been rather disapointed with him in his last two races - never travelled or jumped that well, and it is to his credit that he battled on to be 2nd each time - certainly nothing wrong with his attitude, and if the better ground see's him improve he may be hard to keep out of the frame.

Chances of TS selecting him if he hadn't run at the weekend and was still around 7/1 - virtually zero.

Brigust,
you say the ground mate,but he managed to stay on in that ground.Just think he ran like a horse that needs further in proper company,still its all about opinions as you say.

Brigust1, I'm sorry if I have offended you. It is clear that you are passionate about the aforementioned beast. However, I think they passion may be clouding your judgement somewhat. Personally, I haven't got a particularly strong opinion on who will win the race at the moment. I think Cue Card's form looks about as strong as there is out there but there is clearly little value in going long on that at the moment with the uncertainty as to its target (although I'd be a little surprised if they tackle the Champion this year). I think the race has a pretty open look to it.

What Zaidpour has demonstrated so far is that it is decent, but quite clearly far far far from outstanding. However, backing Zaidpour for the Supreme Novices now, after the evidence of its lack of pace in the previous two runs, is almost as mad as backing One Man to win the Gold Cup after needing an oxygen tent coming up the hill in the previous year's Sun Alliance Chase (i.e. completely crazy when the evidence is black n white).

Good luck in your quest though; I'll be the first to congratulate you if my judgement of the horse is well wide of the mark.

Can't argue with any of that. I'm just not quick to condemn a horse when there are reasons not to. Not many horses are unbeaten thoughout their careers and that doesn't make them hopeless either.
I've backed Z and CC and as yet fear nothing in the Supreme and everything. The thing is I wouldn't replace my bets with anything at this moment in time. But nothing is cast in stone.
I'm a punter after all. Passionate but not faultless.
Some of the comments on these threads are thought provoking and some are silly, and they are just mine.

Yes Brigust1, I am the brains - The Neptune must be his target!

That's what I like, confidence.

Brigust i still say that we are on one hell of a horse come the festival and have no doubts whatsoever that the supreme is still 100% his target and that he will produce what we know he can,which is something very very special,would not swap him for anything

I've a decent bet on Zaidpour or the Supreme but I'm hardly confident.

Just watched the replay of lto again - cant have him goin for the Supreme

Was flat to the boards turnin in and just stayed on last time


I do think he'll go for the SN for some reason tho!

Half brother to Zaynar so surely the longer race is the way forward

Willie Mullins stable tour in The Weekender today, when talking about Zaidpour:

"I still have a lot of faith in him and rate him possibly my best chance of the week"

Thats quite a statement considering his other runners, Hurricane Fly, Quevega, So Young etc.

its quiet a statement,based on what i have seen from the horse!!