Best Mate / Henrietta Never given the Credit

Not too many knockers imv, she did what she thought was necessary to win three on the spin and achieved it. She will go up further in my estimation if after today that she can see that Somersby is crying out for a trip and send him the same route, book talking naturally!!!!!

White mice/red cheese springs to mind [>o]

Agree, with Desmond... The horse needs 3 miles +

Why would you think Somersby needs 3m?

2 and half max imo.
I would think that a trainer that has trained a 3 time GC winner,should be able to notice a 3miler when she sees one.She is now talking about the Tingle Creek for Somersby.Reckon she will train him for QM,with the Ryanair or even Aintree as the plan B.

How come Somersby was travelling like the winner at 2 miles yesterday but finished a tired third?

Because the horse needed it badly, blew up.

Hit a couple towards the end did not help.

yep the mistakes just stopped him, Hitting a fence when your not fit is hard work.

Obviously Hen knows a bit more about horses than me, but to my eye she has discounted running over further after his nightmare at Aintree. But he never went a tap that day and had more excuses than Wenger. He looked like he wanted further in the Arkle as was done for toe and stayed on nicely, whether it was fitness or a lack of speed again yesterday, I can't be sure, the mistake wouldn't help either way. But would love to see him tried over further and the King George looks a little more open if KS takes a bit out of himself in the Hennessey.

Very interesting poser. The head suggests he should be tried over a trip, but the eye is not so sure. I backed him to win the Arkle last year and my one concern played out - he hit a flat spot coming down the hill just as he did in the Supreme the year before, and just couldn't quite get to the leader afterwards, despite staying on well. However, that does not necessarily mean he will want further - it might just be that he is not quite good enough to win at the top table. I remain a fan of the horse but am just beginning to think the excuses - although perfectly feasible - are beginning to add up and it is a dangerous thing to keep ignoring defeats.

Tom,
i too was a fan of the horse,and backed him for the Arkle.You could be right,he just may not be as good as we thought.

Best Mate was the finest jumper of a fence I ever saw. Would have gone close in the National imo.

The form might not amount to much but Best Mates 2nd Gold Cup was justequine poetry in motion - could have won with Luke Harvey on it ffs

Is the form better than Kauto beating Turnip Green 5 lengths or a well under par Denman ridden restrained after heart problems? Yes as he could have won much much further, never seen a horse travel so easy in a Gold Cup.

Groundhog Day on the Cheltenham forum.

His first Gold Cup was off the back of his 2nd in the King George where McCoy was told to ride him to just get the trip as they werent sure he would stay. They especially didnt know whether he'd stay 3m2f at Cheltenham when they had doubts over the quick Kempton speed track at just 3 miles. For that reason he was ridden restrained in his first Gold Cup against better than Turnip Green to win well but if they knew he'd stayed he could have been ridden to win by further.

I dont think he'd have won a National as he was not a weight conceding horse like Kauto (though he did have more stamina at a pace) as we saw against Wahiba Sands.

Howdi trying to start arguments ...

Remind me how many races Commanche Court, Truckers Tavern and Harbour Pilot won after their Gold Cup runs between them

Again............

like Kauto isnt a weight conceding horse also

after you remind me about Turnip Green

Turpin Green finished Runner up did he???

Beaten only 5 lengths appalling Gold Cup form.

LOL, where is the "Good Form" in Best Mate's CV ??? (not that we haven't been here before YBM)

I have a few hours spare.....

Why does everyone have to downgrade races. Look it's not easy to win any Gold Cup. They both deserve a lot of credit and Best Mate as stated clearly does not get enough.

Im trying to engage YBM in a debate although its a bit like Conger Fishing.....

You cant see Best Mate's merits even if you tried, you were part of the football supporter mentality who really disliked the owner and trainer for not running him every month and in handicaps to 'get a rating', a training method followed by Nicholls since to get more seasons out of his great horses .. you are/were a dinosaur zilzal1. You were wrong about that i was right. Nicholls doesnt get the grief from dinosaurs like you because Hen broke the norm for the better ... we get to see the best for more seasons now without injury as they dont concede 7 st to Shanks Pony now cutting their careers short. Best Mate was a game changing horse but drew a large amount of detractors because of it.

When going above 3 miles on good ground (he hated it dead but had immense guts his 3rd Gold Cup) he was not 5 lengths but streets ahead of Turnip Green. As I say shame I cant get my money down on Best Mate beating Kauto Star in a Gold Cup. You would have to go to planet Mars to get 5s Matey any year for the race which was Kautos price recently. Denman a different matter he is a true stayer, Turnip Green wouldnt get anywhere near him either.

Turnip Green won 1 from 10 of his races after the Gold Cup and that was a 3 horse race where he was the only finisher

Glad to see the medication has kicked in YBM

Haven't been to football for years


Sir Rembrant    after Gold Cup 2-24 off 137/145
Truckers Tavern after Gold Cup 1-22 off 143
Commanche Court After Gold Cup 0-12

Remember Commanche Court was 25s and Matey was ridden just to win as they didnt even know he would get the King George trip. He was never going to be delivered anthing other than very late. You saw his true merit in the 2nd Gold Cup, the 3rd he hated the dead ground and was probably on the decline anyway, something we will be seeing with Kauto soon.

I would like nothing more than us to have the chance to have a large bet on each in a good ground Gold Cup I would prove you wrong again nothing new there. You opposed Matey for years and must have done your gonads judging by your comments on here in the run up to each Gold Cup.

I won around 65k on him because after watching handicapper be replaced by a different handicapper winning the race for decades with some exceptions, I knew I was watching something special with Matey. He was 4/6 the Arkle ANTEPOST, how often do you see that, and I would have collected my 2/1 that if it wasnt foot and mouth. His weakness would have been conceding weight as it would blunt his speed too much.

A-I lived abroad from 2003 to 2006
B-90% of my bets are on the Flat, show me any comments about any Gold Cup

FYI, You could ask a respected poster Steeplechasing what my method was for Cheltenham this year although i will refrain from boasting

And calm down, its Sunday...........

How would it blunt HIS speed??. he carried 12 stone in the 1st two Gold Cups, they they put it down to 11-10, in a hcap he couldnt have carried more than 11-12


more water with it next time............

I am calm it is great reminding you of your former failings

Are you saying the Betfair forum is not accessible abroad? You had a massive dislike for Matey r1pping the mick out of the established methods and connections.

Well, if you could go on a trawl and find some of them then.....


As usual, all bluster and no content, full of i won 65k blah, blah, blah

Also this ybm you mention unprovoked was apparently right about the horse and training methods at that very time.

Dear me I dont have to go through the conceding weight explanation yet again? Go read an old thread please.

All i said about Matey is that he was in a era where there wasnt a lot about....


Hen doesnt run ANYTHING that often imo, still if you think that Jump horses should run three times a year as a norm we are going to have a lot of small fields every year until Cheltenham.

Ask the man in the street to name three racehorses and id wager Matey wouldnt be in the top 5, and with the game slowly fading we NEED public interest

I dont personally think that is the fault of the horses and anyway Best Mate was front page news his 3rd Gold Cup due to Hen, something Kauto is now unlikely to attract the same attention for.

Yep, just ask 100 people on the street to name three racehorses

Bear in mind 3m2f around Cheltenham is far from Kauto's best conditions. Best mate was lethal around Prestbury park.

On good ground I'd be a Best mate backer.

At Kempton however Kauto would be free money.

Exactly Mr Eboue .. seems so obvious looking at the form / way the races have been run.

On good ground i would have Kauto anywhere over 3m - 3m 2f,just think he is a better class of horse,simple as that for me.

The broad nature of  Kauto's achievements and the superior nature of the rivals he has faced mean he will be judged by history to be a more noteworthy horse than Best Mate in my opinion. I would say that the likes of Voy Por Ustedes, Denman, Imperial Commander and Exotic Dancer were better than what Best Mate was beating.

neil d - i agree with you

budd - I also agree with you

unclepuncle - what are you on, even Luke Harvey could win on it!!! You need to see a doctor.

Back to the Somersby point, he had a great opportunity to win at Exeter last week, with the top weight keeping what I thought would be his main rivals just out of the handicap. I have watched the race a few times and have come to the view that they went too fast up front and Hadden Frost felt he could win as he pleased when the pace setters folded.

Had he ridden with a fraction more restraint, although I think the horse maybe jumped him into a false sense of security over fences 8 out to 5 out, they may have prevailed. I also thought he stayed on after the last, suggesting he did blow up in the straight, which may have caused the errors. I am not blaming Frost at all as I reckon he expected the horse to gallop to the line.

Whatever the reason (going on when the front runners faded or a lack of fitness - or both) that is clearly not his running, i.e. he ran nowhere near his handicap mark which to my mind was vary fair. His jumping has been excellent - very impressive at Sandown last year - and the Tingle Creek is the obvious next stop. If the horse was just short last time and/ or they "came too soon" they will know after the TC (win or lose) exactly where they go from there.

I am not sure what his best trip will be, whether he will prove more effective over 2.5 or 3+ remains to be seen, but for the time being they have to prove whether or not he is a top notch 2 miler in the making.

Spot on Masterminded - To win 3 is outstanding

Ask the man in the street to name three racehorses and id wager Matey wouldnt be in the top 5, and with the game slowly fading we NEED public interest

would kauto or denman be known by the man in the street either...doubtful anyone without an interest in racing would mention these two.....red rum desert orchid and a photo finish for 3rd place i reckon

my mrs. has suffered me hogging the telly pretty much everyday for many years and been forced to watch many races with me....she wouldn't have the first clue who kauto star is.

Could be something to do with only appearing three times a year..........

if by running them a few times more would miraculously get them onto the front pages and news headlines on a regular basis...then maybe your average bloke in the street might remember them...otherwise not much chance.

TBF, the horseracing product has been diluted so much and is now ignored by the wider media( Zenyatta would have made news even 10 years ago over here)

Even on Saturdays, you used to get the finish to the big race of the day, The demise of Grandstand and The World of Sport from BBC 1 and Itv on to the smaller Channels signalled the beginning of the end

I was 7 when i had my first bet....on the itv 7 my grandad got me to pick some out, i was in a family that all liked to have a bet...so it was easy for me....but picking up on your point....if the telly races weren't around in those days and i got into my teenage years before i started betting...the chances are i may have missed out altogether

eric morris if hen was so right not to run matey in a handicap why are u knocking kauto for not winning one.i loved best mate backed in all 3 gc ive also never seen a horse use so little energy getting from one side of a fence to the other he just did it with so little fuss.but when u start knocking kauto about turpin green the fact is in 3 gc he never beat anything as good as exotic dancer