Spirit River

It has but its not sinking in with some.

spirit river enterd at chelt on friday.2m5f novice chase,another clue??

also entered at lingfield on sat over 3m would seem to suggest the arkle is a long way from there thoughts

Both could be and he could also win the Feltham, like Long Run, before the Kingmaker at Warwick, like Long Run. By this time, Finian's Rainbow may have shown what he did last year (that he does a lot more on the bridle than off it), and Henderson may then run his best novice chaser who's 2 from 2 at Cheltenham in the Arkle. Surely he won't make the mistake with Spirit River he made with Long Run and Punchestowns, either of whom would have been better suited to the Arkle and who may still not have recovered from their exertions in the RSA Chase.

see Booster, that post  right there says to me you are really confident about SR for the Arkle. So why then , have you not backed him ?

if I feel confidnet about something, I back it, and you can have 25/1 about SR right now, I just find it a bit odd, that is all.

Not telling you what to do or anything Booster. We are all bettors here.

Could be a nice RSA horse.

Booster,i admire you faith,even when everything is pointing to you getting this wrong,you still persevere.
Hats off to you in that respect.

now i have a question for you,

Are you a bit concerned that it appears that FR is being campaigned over 2m and SR is being campaigned over further??

Hope so Luke,i have backed him for that,and the trainer does seem to think he will be better over a trip by the looks of it.

Buddeleia, I would obviously prefer them to be going over 2 miles but this situation is not without precedent. Alan King brought My Way De Solzen back to 2 miles to win an Arkle, Tidal Bay was touted as an RSA Chase horse before he won and Henderson only decided to step Long Run back up in trip, which I think was a mistake, after he won the Kingmaker.

I think the stable have targeted this race with the wrong types in recent years and, forgive me if I'm wrong, haven't got a great recent record in it. I thibk Remittance Man was their last winner.

I've obviously got to hope things transpire my way but can honestly see that happening.

If going 3 miles plus for the RSA you're going to bump into Time For Rupert, Wayward Prince et al and they're bruising stayers. That would be completely the wrong race for a horse with his speed (in my opinion only).

The only other option might be the Ryanair bur he's very inexperienced for that race and can't see it.

Sintonian, if he runs at the weekend I will back him before that run as I expect the trainer to come out afterwards and say he could be an Arle horse, "Barry couldn't believe the speed he showed" etc. He's a machine although I can believe the other horse may show more on the gallops as he's a showy flashy type who can do it on the bridle.

I think Tiutchev won the Arkle for the yard.

fair comments boost,and you are correct that some are bought back in trip for the race.You also make a fair point re Time for Rupert etc.
We obviously dont know for sure where he will end up,it seems to me that it all points to longer race at the moment,but as you say,that could change.

Thanks, R Carver, forgot abouy him but that must be 10 years ago and I think he beat a dodgy stayer in Decoupage.

Must be 10 yr ago yeah, and i think he walked through every fence too...!

Need to send it to an easy track over 2 miles.

wonder if he took a knock when othermix fell

It looked like he certainly could have.

Timeform report that he has a cut on one of his legs.

might explain why he just seemed to stop.Unfortunately a fall and then that happening not gonna do the horses confidence much good.

What now ben10?

By: ben10

Thought he jumped quite well today bar the obvious mistake. Not worth giving up on...

By: This user is offline. eric_morris

They all jump well unitl the obvious mistake mate. Celestial Halo has made 2 obvious mistakes in 2 races now.

By: ben10

Don't think he's merely made 2 obvious mistakes, Halo never looked a natural to me, not seeing the right stride or anything.

By: This user is offline. Reyes

tried to go long, stuttered into it, couldn't get legs down quick enough. i'd actually put that down to jockey error as much as the horse. totally diff mistakes to the ones CH makes/made

By: This user is offline. eric_morris

The good uns often find a way of standing up even after a blunder like that. These 2 dont look natural to me and both need 2m 4f minimum. Celestial should be going back staying hurdling imo.

By: This user is offline. eric_morris

Not questioning the horses ability but jumping is the be all and end all upon which the rest is based. Not too worrying unless he repeats it next time out like Celestial. Anyone who hasnt backed him the Festival should watch his next run first before getting a position on the 2m 4f race.

Spirit River needs to go back over hurdles imo.

Excellent piece of judgement by Flyingbolt. Probably the only time I have ever known him put his neck on the line and he declares that Sprirt River will be a Grade 1 horse. Perhaps the crown is slippinhg. Shroooooooooood.

Alvarado think thi confirms I wasnt on drugs


Alvarado

eric morris are u on drugs mate spirit river looked a complete natural today its his first race over fences he,ll learn from that mistake and falling will teach him a lesson hes a bay and at least he lives to fight another day unlike poor old tell massini

By: This user is offline. Alvarado

hes a bay meant to be baby

By: This user is online. eric_morris

Complete naturals dont fall first time out. Keep taking the drugs.

just watched it.....my guess is that plenty looking to give him an excuse will say the interference nailed him.....the fact is though , that up to that point he was not travelling or jumping with any fluency........one thing to come out of this race is that we should have no more nonsence about finian's rainbow being inferior to this horse.

Othermix didnt impede Spirit River.

Reve De Sivola great form boost for Time For Rupert there and over a trip short of Rupert's best.

tbh i don't think that ,that race was a form boost for any horse....reve is looking more and more muellish and although he won the race i don't think that it has enhanced him one iota.

Panto Prince

Only one thing wworse than a clueless twaat and thats an AFTERTIMING clueless twaat.

Not sure the horse is going to be much whack over fences. that said I would give him one more try poss at Kempton Boxing day and if not would get him back over hurdles.

Little point in that the horse did a full somersault there ... he is not good enough at fencing to win races half as good as those he could win back over hurdles.

By: ben10

Don't think he's merely made 2 obvious mistakes, Halo never looked a natural to me, not seeing the right stride or anything.


How is this incorrect please?

All I said other than that was SR deserved another chance, fair enough it didn't work out but some horses do go on from a sloppy debut and I felt he'd shown some encouragement. I've not put I've backed him anywhere fwiw.

Read it all above in context ben10.

Fair enough you didnt spot Spirit River was not a natural like Celestial is also not.

Yes, unfortunately some of us make mistakes [;)]

What are they 

SR was not looking like a winner before the fall of other mix. Caught the top of a few of them.  TBH, if they had all stood up, the way he was travelling he still may have come last.

The race had some many doubts about, Reve De receiving 8lb from a has that was nearly brought down, I wouldn't be in a rush to claim it as a form boost.

I hope Booster did not stick to his word and back SR before todays run.

* receiving 8lb from a HORSE

Which Grade One race do you think Spirit River will be winning at the Festival this year Flyingbolt? Best stick to what you do best - rubbishing other people's opinions rather than providing original thought of your own. Exposed as a guesser I am afraid on the only prospective opinion you have ever put up on here. Simply guessing which horses will be Grade One performers based on the fact that you like the colours or the way their mane has been plaitted isnt really what people want to read.

By the way there is a lovely grey running in the King George on Boxing Day - perhaps you could puut your £2 on that?

What a stupid cnut you are.

Spirit River clearly frightened himself at Newbury and may never make the grade over fences. That doesn't mean he will never be any good. If he goes back over hurdles he will win good races. It might just take a while to regain his confidence.

If you could point me in the direction of you ever making a valid opinion on anything I'd appreciate it.

You pathetic piece of shyte.

[u]If you could point me in the direction of you ever making a valid opinion on anything I'd appreciate it[/u].

A tacit admission that you have never made one yourself. You are coming to the end of your useful time on here mate. Do us all a favour and just do one.

I notice you had nothing positive to say about the Richard Davies signed racecard thread did you? If you can't be bitter or slag someone off you just aren't interested. Sad man /woman/hermaphrodite (1.4 the latter)

I have no idea what the "Richard Davies signed racecard thread " is.

Obviously you have never passed an opinion on anything. Hardly surprising.

Sintonian, I didn't back him for March but did have a wack on at 5-2 with Hills for today and that hurt, I have to admit. Still, when you back horses every day, it's just one more loser. Realistically I couldn't carry on fancying him now but believe he'll prove top class in time and the most interesting bet I've heard on here is the person who's backed Spirit River for the Champion Hurdle.

did he do so from within the confines of a secure institution?

Got to go now. I am going to have a really good study up tonight to try to work out which Grade One races Hendo is going to send Sprit River to at Chelts, Aintree and Punch.

Are there any Grade One chases on those cards where there arent any fences and where a horse that's probably worth about 145 at best can regualry win? If so I am steaming in on this Grade One beast and no mistake

amazing game racing you have never seen a horse jump as well as SR did at newbury on his debut until he fell at the 11th and today he was beat after the first such a shame because he a such a good horse who really should make a top top chaser.his confidence must be shattered now he,ll need a break after that it wouldnt surprise me if we dident see him again this season he reminds of duc de reignere who had problems with his jumping in his early days but they sorted that out

HES WITH THE RIGHT MAN TO GET HIM BACK

You said he was a complete natural after his first race fall are you taking the p1ss?

if i was d owner id stick him in a class 4 chase somewhere and work up the ladder. he doesnt look unnatural over fences like celestial halo did and i wudnt give up on him yet

Yes why not win egg and spoon races over fences rather than top handicaps over hurdles ... great idea.

work up the ladder

He wont run over fences again this season.

Would be a good idea as he is a young horse who could still win plenty over hurdles.

its pretty obvious to me that his confidence was shattered with the fall at Newbury.Their is imo no other way of explaining the fact that he jumped well up to the fall,and has jumped slow and hesitant today and then falling again when probably tired.
bearing this in mind and that the horse has proved he CAN jump,i would not in no way give up on him.Trainer now has to earn his corn and get his confidence back,Now that may well mean a spell hurdling,makes sense to me,or a break from racing with a fair bit of schooling,and then bring him back over fences later in the season.Whatever happens i cannot see him in a chase at the festival,so glad i backed him for the RSA!! oh well!

Grade One hurdler then Flyingbolt? Is that what your crystal ball says?

Just feel sorry for the horse - confidence theory has merit - good reason why you should never back a novice chaser after a fall (especially if it happens in the horse's first chase) because you don't know the impact.

I won't be backing Robinson Collonges tomorrow for same reason (of course he could hose up). Probably should n't be that dogmatic about it anyway e.g. Wishfull Thinking had a soft fall fto at Aintree (slipped on landing) and then completed riderless, jumping every fence - that probably did his confience good!

Also Henderson said beforehand that he had n't had the opportunity to do much schooling with him since Newbury due to the weather - maybe that would have restored his confidence.

Hopefully he can go back over hurdles and enjoy some success - one of many likeable animals in that yard just now.

I also have to say that I don't understand those who gloat about the misfortunes of horses and their supporters. We all have opinions - we all get it wrong sometimes.

Well done to Booster for having the guts to admit a big bet on him today.

henderson running a novice that fell last time out in an above average race at cheltenham without sufficient schooling probably allows the horse another go at chasin?

Of course, just realised that RC has won over fences at Herefrod since the fall at Wincanton - as I say, we all get it wrong sometimes!

well said RH,we do indeed all get it wrong sometimes

Perhaps you should do a bit of research before you come on here mouthing off about other posters Reaseheath. It appears that you always get it wrong

Only one person "mouthing of" on here and that's you, Pants.

Pity you haven't the bottle to back up your big mouth.

Only a desperately inadequate, mundanely predictable bore would interpret my post as 'mouthing off' , Panto Ponce.

bolt panto make ur own bitching thread up ffs does my head in seeing 20 new posts of insults on every thread. absolute jokers.

back to topic.. i think spirit river may well be reverting back to hurdles unless he shows something at home schooling. tbh i was surprised they went chasing so soon as he could be a live contender in either of the hurdle races at the festival. i hope one day he turns out to be a decent chaser and i think he will.

Agree totally wth your first line Masterminded - I thogh Eric/KSM was nanoying bt at least he, when he can get his head out of ar*e, has something useful and insightful to say.

Panto - given it's nearly Christmas haven't you got a day job to go[;)]. Mind you getting dolled up as one of the ugly sisters with lashings of make-up and a great big dress is probably more a year round thing for you. Thuogh give the amount of cr*p you spout on here maybe you'd be better off being the back half of the pantomine horse.

Panto has taken gloating to a whole new level on here today. Very immature.

Excellent Uncle - very witty well done.

Not sure about gloating - simply pointing out that flyingbolt is a useless punter and a cynical guesser - not the shrewd judge that some make him out to be.

As for Masterminded this is a magnificent piece of insight:

i think spirit river may well be reverting back to hurdles unless he shows something at home schooling

Was it worth expending the calories to strike the keys to give us that trite piece of boier plate you mook? Are are you in fact Nicky Henderson? Tool.

Quality reply Panto[:(]

Just tried to read this thread and had to sift through so much inane mindless crap I've almost lost the will to live.
Panto...Whilst Mr Bolt can be quite sharp in his replies to fellow forumites,its just that he does not suffer fools gladly.The fact that you regularly read and comment on his thread on the Competition forum shows that you are aware he makes selections on a regular basis,so please stop ruining threads with pathetic point scoring.

Back to the subject in hand, I was one of the "mugs" who took Hills 5/2 about him on Friday.At Newbury previously I thought he jumped superbly until BG asked him to stand off one and he didnt agree with him!However at Cheltenham he never jumped with any fluency and at no stage during the race looked happy.To see him tip up so horrifically when so far back was very sad viewing.
I would be amazed if he jumps another fence in public this year,but sincerley hope he returns at some point to fulfill the promise some of us think he has.

barry said he slipped at takeoff

Wouldnt be surprised if he visitis Yogi Breisner for more work on his jumping.

Needs a fkin hoist to get him over his fences is a much much better horse over hurdles excuses aside.

hemsby - sayinig that someone 'doesn't suffer fools gladly' implies that they are imbued with some sort of enhanced level of judgement and insight - that that person is somehow better. cleverer or more worthy than others. Its normally used by arrogant older people who think they have some status and rights conferred on them based on wisdom and experience - its actually an arrogant caim (admittedly Flyingbolt isnt making that claim himself).

I simply don't accept that Flyingbolt is any smarter or better informed than dozens of far more polite , constructive and pleasant forumites on here. Furthermore those that do make reasoned, well thought through and often prospective judgments run the risk of being ridiculed or pedantically criticized over trivial insomsistencies. These outbursts add nothing to the debate.

That is all.

but Panto, isn't that what you do ? I have read on here numerous times from you .. posts about £2 punters .. and claims of being a ''Pro'' etc etc ..

Flyingbolt does not claim to be better or bigger than anyone, he has an opinion.

That is it.

I would love to give my view on SR, but it is not worth the hassle.

i wouldnt be suprised if he went for the whurdle

I wouldnt be surprised if its running in 0-125 events for a different trainer next season.

Lol hilarious[smiley:crazy]

Crozan mark II

I remember Crozan bolting up the Koral Kup, yes. Unless you are suggesting they are similarly ungenuine... But i do not remember Crozan ever knuckling down up the hill like this one did in a competitive festival race

all I am saying is Crozan was promising over hurdles (and was a decent novice chaser) and then lost the plot. I think Spirit River is the same sort of disappointing sort. I hope i am wrong but once Hendo's are gone they are usually gone.

In fairness Crozan won 1 race, a chase, the form of which was solid, then flopped repeatedly. He did not run over hurdles for the trainer. Sprit River may have 'gone' or may not, and i agree its looking tough for him now, but i cannot see any like-for-like comparisson with Crozan.

Let's give it 12 months [;)]

could be right!

why not run it in the world hurdle .nickys always said he would have love to have another crack at bbucks with a horse to be played late in the race.this would be the ideal horse to try it with while also trying to give the horse his confidence back,id love to see it

Because its a 140 ish rated performer and so could not realistically hope to finish in the money.

Entered in the Cleeve Hurdle on Saturday

So he is over his cut, i was hoping they were going to save him for the coral cup for a repeat.

I see he is entered in the world hurdle.

May well go for the Coral if he doesn't prove his stamina on Saturday.

ftm knows..

coral cup it is then

looks a shadow of the horse that won it last season

Jumped well enough today, im sure he was just out for a confidence booster today. with a bit of luck they might drop him a few pounds.

horse has issues imo...couldnt back it with counterfeit at present

He actually ran a similar race in the Tote Gold Trophy last year, travelling strongly until a mistake stopped him. Never a 3 miler, he's got tonnes of speed and they've ****ed him up trying to make him into a stayer. Wouldn't look much further if he's entered for the Coral Cup again but needs looking after and treating like a top class novice chaser next season.

stuff riding that in a novice chase next season real shame as hes a lovely horse who on his day is very very good but he looks like hes gone at the game

Early days yet.

I still have faith in the horse.

I still think he is 2miler rather than 3 miler, i just think the owner has so much talent that he has been campaigned this way.

I still pray that he is entered in the county hurdle as no horse i know cruises up 3 out in the totegoldtrophy and is a 3 miler.

2m4f may turn out to be his trip.

I still adore the way he hurdles, near top class.

Coral Cup is 2m 5f and he won that staying on well....sure, he may well not be a thorough stayer but you cant say he flopped today cos he's a 2miler. His mark is currently 11 lb higher than when he won Coral Cup last year...be surprised if there isnt something with a bit more in hand at the weights.

Booster '....needs looking after and treating like a top class novice chaser next season' - agreed.

And I don't think you can say he wouldn't have won the Coral Cup with 11lbs extra. I think they ran him back at Cheltenham in December too soon after his Newbury fall. Henderson said before the race he hadn't been able to school him between races due to the bad weather. Poor really for a top trainer but wouldn't give up on a horse who can travel and jump so well in a Grade 2 like yesterday. If he does get dropped in the weights he'd be thrown in if you look at James de Vassy's Kempton win. The question is whether they can get him right for March. If they do, he'll be a serious player.

I would not give up on him either Booster, but they should rough him off and bring him back at a small venue over fences in November. Give him a chance to forget the experiences he had chasing. He appeared to enjoy his run before running out of stamina/fitness. After his 2 falls I cannot believe he'd had the gun to his head at home before Saturday's run.

I think they should run him earlier than that. The day he won the Coral Cup the ground was supposed to be riding quick so I'd bring him out at the Showcase Meeting at the latest. On a general point, with the bad weather we've been having, I wonder who'll be the first of the big trainers to start bringing their decent horses out earlier, get some experience into theit novice chasers in particular, then rest them for Cheltenham while all the abandonments and bad ground are prevailing?

The Arkle picture could be looking a lot different if more horses had run by now.