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From Membership to Ownership...

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Replies: 95
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 16 Dec 19 20:31
Yes-its all aspects of the business covered-Elite is the fan club, OG is the fan club where you own 0.033% of the bloodstock for your 50 quid, and Axom is your ownership syndicate.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 20 Dec 19 22:37
So Proclaimer became my first UK winner as an owner when he won the 6f nursery at Newcastle on Wednesday. He came with a very late rattle and was matched at 1000 on here.

His dam Pious continues her magnificent record of breeding only winners. He will obviously improve with age and a longer trip.
By:
sageform
When: 24 Dec 19 20:36
Well done. Great to be a associated with a winner.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 22 May 20 16:42
Mensen Ernst runs at Bordeaux tomorrow (1.17 UK time).  Looks to be a match on ratings between him and Influx, but we have 1.5kg on hand, and I expect him to both improve with the extra distance and for his his first run.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 26 May 20 12:34
Mensen Ernst won very easily on Saturday, helped by the withdrawal of the other favoured horse Influx.  With his win and place prizemoney, plus his French breeding premiums, he has now won more than his purchase price, which is a good thing.

His French form now reads 114-21 which is not too shabby.  We are aiming for a Listed race now as his rating remains 41.5kg (91).
By:
truehoncho
When: 28 May 20 10:24
Well done BBC. Hope it keeps going well for you.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 29 May 20 15:22
Thank you TH, likewise.

Have a couple of entries in week 1 but will probably both get balloted out.

May have a 2yo out the week after.

Best wishes all.
By:
sageform
When: 06 Jun 20 08:24
How easy is it to transfer a horse from GB to France at the moment BBC? If I had a half decent horse I would be doing so at the earliest opportunity. Prize money is less affected and many races there seem unfilled so you have a good chance of getting a run. How long will it take for a 65 handicapper to get a run here in GB?
I don't want to be too pessimistic but what do you breeders think will happen at the autumn sales if there is still a reduced racing programme?
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 07 Jun 20 18:48
Its a good question, but not that difficult it would seem as I know its being seriously considered for a horse I know about. Even better if you are French bred, and qualify for premiums.

I have a share in a horse rated 53 who has been balloted out of 4 races so far.  Keeps getting entered in 0-60, 0-65 and no chance whatsoever.

I'm assuming the programme will expand somewhat later in the year, but get exactly what you are saying, and there's no guarantee the show will remain on the road if infection rates go up again.
By:
truehoncho
When: 08 Jun 20 11:47
Sageform, its not expensive to get a horse to France. Someone like Gay Kelleway has a yard over there (at least she did). Obviously the main issue is watching them run. As far as the sales go, I think it will be a continuation of the last few years where the better ones do well and the modest ones will struggle. However, I do think that there will be plenty of small trainers looking for bargains and unless you are unrealistic about the value of your horse you should get it away if it has any merit. BBC there will be plenty of 0-55's coming up so don't get disheartened. I have had no luck getting in a couple of races but there will be plenty of opportunity in the next few months.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 08 Jun 20 17:15
I hope you are right TH, hes entered again on Saturday and he needs about 22 to come out!

MENSEN ERNST is entered in the Derby du Languedoc on Friday (listed), and hes got a decent chance of picking up some black type on the book.  Prize money E19K for the winner (excluding premiums).
By:
truehoncho
When: 09 Jun 20 10:32
BBC if she is rated 53 then you will need to wait for a 0-55. There are plenty in the pipeline for the end of the month and onwards. I have a 63 rated horse and was only 35th in the running for a 0-70!!
By:
truehoncho
When: 09 Jun 20 12:38
Have a look at Leicester on the 30th June BBC.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 09 Jun 20 16:58
TH-thanks, haven't got that far yet!  He will probably be balloted out on Saturday, and is entered over 12f on Monday, when he only needs about 4 or 5 to come out.
By:
sageform
When: 10 Jun 20 17:29
Sir Mark managed to find a race for a 53 rated horse that is probably capable of winning off 80. There are more races not filling now that we have 3 or 4 meetings a day. There will have been 235 flat races by tonight compared to 764 in the whole of June last year so by the end of the month the total will be about the same as last year if not more.
By:
truehoncho
When: 10 Jun 20 17:59
You are right Sageform, there are plenty of opportunities in the near future. I do have one gripe (also pertains to your thread on the racing forum), the BHA are now giving a handicap mark after 2 runs. Although I am ok with it in principle there isn't any need for it and there are horses running against horses that have had 3 or 4 runs and are quite unexposed after just 2. I don't think this is fair on the other horses in the grade.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 11 Jun 20 20:21
I don't think you were the only one to notice Alphabetical given he was backed from 6/1 to 11/10 sageform....I think the handicapper may raise him a few pounds.
By:
sageform
When: 13 Jun 20 14:50
Certainly romped home-I only mentioned it to show that opportunities for low ratings are coming along now. Quite a few unfilled races today. I agree now about the 3 runs for a handicap. It made sense for 2 weeks but by now every trainer has had a chance to get a third run so scrap it.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 13 Jun 20 16:12
The two race hcap change intrigued me.  I thought some horses would get in a bit light.  Interestingly enough one of mine was given a mark of 72, after 2 runs, but ran like a drain a few days ago.  The balance of his form over 3 runs would mean he would probably be rated mid 60's, but you can expect him not to get dropped 7lbs.....
By:
sageform
When: 13 Jun 20 16:36
Two sides to every coin unfortunately. They tend to handicap on the best of 3 runs so may not have mattered.
By:
truehoncho
When: 13 Jun 20 20:06
Yes, best run gets you your mark and as you say getting dropped takes a few runs. As it happens the one's being given a mark after 2 runs are not romping away with anything. I don't mind it going forward, for a lot below average horses you are just cannon fodder in maidens anyway. There needs to be a bit more variety for horses rated below 70. Claimers. sellers etc.
By:
truehoncho
When: 15 Jun 20 09:36
Hi Sageform, on you point about sales I think you may have been closer to the truth than I was. Small owners (those that buy at the cheaper end of the yearling market) are getting hammered by these prize money cuts and are thoroughly pissed off. I have spoken to one or two that have had runners in handicaps already (me included) and feel let down by the cuts. I think they will be giving yearlings away in bk3 and below unless they do something quickly about the situation. When you are placed in a competitive 12 runner handicap and cant get you race day fees paid it's going to leave you a little unhappy.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 15 Jun 20 13:09
Saw a post on twitter from such an owner who received less than 1000 pounds for finishing second in a race, asking what was the case for continuing keeping his horse in training.
By:
Formtwist
When: 16 Jun 20 19:26
Class 5 and Class 6 races had prize money increased under Covid-19 temporary allocation at the expense of races for better horses.
By:
truehoncho
When: 16 Jun 20 20:09
No they didn't.
By:
truehoncho
When: 16 Jun 20 20:11
oops pressed reply a bit quick!  All prize money was reduced considerably. I am not sure why you think otherwise Formtwist.
By:
Formtwist
When: 16 Jun 20 22:40
BHA press release 14th May 2020
Class 6 races minimum values increased to 123% of previous values, Class 5 races 120% of previous values, Class 4 the same, the rest reduced up to the biggest cut at G1 level which is 50% of previous values. These to operate for first ten weeks of resumption.
By:
truehoncho
When: 17 Jun 20 09:47
Hi Formtwist. It didn't happen. Prize money has been cut significantly in all 5 and 6 class races. My guess is at least 20% maybe more. I suppose Trump would call that press release 'Fake Mews' !!!!
By:
truehoncho
When: 17 Jun 20 09:48
'News'
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 17 Jun 20 09:50
It was a good move to increase prize money at the bottom end, as after all, that's where most people operate. But if you look at places like France.....Bog standard maidens worth E9k to the winner. 2yo maiden today worth E22K in total.

Claimer today worth E20k total, 10k to the winner.
By:
truehoncho
When: 17 Jun 20 09:54
BBC, they REDUCED prize money at the bottom end.
By:
Formtwist
When: 17 Jun 20 10:20
Truehoncho it did happen. The appearance money down to lower finishes of £400 ceased, it hardly a problem getting eight runners anyway, the win and normal places increased.
By:
truehoncho
When: 17 Jun 20 10:35
No they didn't formtwist. They went down for 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th. The £400 for the lower places was cut as you say, when it was introduced there was a discussion about topping up places or paying down to 8th. That is prizemony just the same (for what it's worth I argued against it). I'm not sure why you think it went up??
By:
truehoncho
When: 17 Jun 20 10:47
II stand corrected, and eat humble pie. However the overall pot is less. Sorry and deserve a telling off.
By:
sageform
When: 17 Jun 20 12:42
The racecourses have reduced their contribution so even if the BHA have increased theirs, prizes could be less.
By:
Formtwist
When: 17 Jun 20 13:10
Not true Sageform,
The Levy Board have made up all prize money to 80% of previous levels allocated as per the press release I referred to. Class 5 and Class 6 races were enhanced as a deliberate reward for as many owners as possible, judging that the top end races were largely populated by a small group of affluent owners. It must be disheartening to see the owners given larger return and more races being so critical of the return. Racing low grade horses was never the way to "making it pay" other than betting.
By:
sageform
When: 17 Jun 20 15:48
Certainly true that some courses have reduced or even removed their share of the prize money. The Levy Board may have put in more to compensate. It is the valuable races that have had prize money decimated. Only four prizes for a Group 1!!!
By:
truehoncho
When: 21 Jun 20 15:10
Formtwist,you are right that placed money (a little) has increased but overall prizemony per race has reduced as a result of the 'appearance' money being stopped which works out to about £1,500 per race. When I argued at the ROA meeting that this prizemoney should go to win and place and not reward losers they argued that over the course of a season owners would be better off across the board and it would help get 8 runners in a race. But it is prizemony no matter how you look at it and it has been cut. Running low grade horses can be made to pay but the it is a lot harder when the prizemony is less.
By:
Big Black Cat
When: 12 Aug 20 17:05
Mid Season Update

Just in case anyone is interested.

I have had 3 2yo run enough to be rated, and they are rated at 61 (5 runs), 61 (3) and 64 (2).  4 of my 2yo have as yet not run, although from the vibes I fully expect them to be better than those 3, including a Breezer bought recently.

Obviously Mensen Ernst has been my best 3yo, now rated 46kg (101).  he has been listed placed and finished up a close 4th in a listed race at Deauville last Sunday.  Provocation has been very disappointing, and he runs this afternoon before probably going to the sales.  Lexington Storm also has questions to answer, but has been gelded, which may help, although he didn't show great promise last Saturday.  No Nay Bella has been placed twice and will hopefully win a handicap this season.  The less said about Theheartneverlies the better.

So pretty standard stuff I guess, and thanking my lucky stars I have a share in at least two decent 3yo.
By:
Jezebel
When: 20 Aug 20 15:00
BBC after having previously been an ERC member, then a member of a work-related syndicate, then having a few years out altogether I've taken the plunge with a couple of shares in a (hopefully!) nice unraced OG 2yo with Julie Camacho.  I'm blaming you entirely Grin

I see there is even more dissent among Elite members after the Frankel-Maralinka colt - the covering which was supposed to be their 'treat'/reward for the club management deciding to sell Marsha and sink the majority of the funds into Equiprep - has been entered in Book 1 of the October Sales.
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