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ELGIN (DUKE OF MARMALADE X CHINA TEA) was a ready winner of a good novice hurdle at the Kempton Christmas Festival on Boxing Day.
Elgin was originally trained for a flat career by James Fanshawe, but was deemed too backward to run-he was sent to Alan King and given time to mature. He won a bumper, and has now won two novice hurdles well. His next target may be the Dovecote Hurdle at Kempton, prior to a Cheltenham Festival entry
ELGIN is a half brother to the Nicky Henderson trained CLEMENCY (by HALLING), a fair winning hurdler and bumper winner. The dam, CHINA TEA, is an unraced full sister to the very useful French middle distance colt MADAGAN (LW, G3W, G1Placed) by HIGH CHAPARRAL. She is from the family as Champion French mare SHIVA and the Oaks winner LIGHT SHIFT
She has a 2yo filly by HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR to enter training, barren to CAPE CROSS last year, and in foal to ACCLAMATION this year. She is due to visit SIR PERCY in 2017
Elgin was originally trained for a flat career by James Fanshawe, but was deemed too backward to run-he was sent to Alan King and given time to mature. He won a bumper, and has now won two novice hurdles well. His next target may be the Dovecote Hurdle at Kempton, prior to a Cheltenham Festival entry
ELGIN is a half brother to the Nicky Henderson trained CLEMENCY (by HALLING), a fair winning hurdler and bumper winner. The dam, CHINA TEA, is an unraced full sister to the very useful French middle distance colt MADAGAN (LW, G3W, G1Placed) by HIGH CHAPARRAL. She is from the family as Champion French mare SHIVA and the Oaks winner LIGHT SHIFT
She has a 2yo filly by HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR to enter training, barren to CAPE CROSS last year, and in foal to ACCLAMATION this year. She is due to visit SIR PERCY in 2017
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ELGIN has had a pretty good season and is a pretty useful novice.
He is due to run in the Supreme Novices Hurdle at Cheltenham next week.
Has last two runs in graded company were very solid. He probably caught a couple of very good horses in NEON WOLF and RIVER WYLDE.
Its great to have a runner at the festival who will put up a good showing.
He is due to run in the Supreme Novices Hurdle at Cheltenham next week.
Has last two runs in graded company were very solid. He probably caught a couple of very good horses in NEON WOLF and RIVER WYLDE.
Its great to have a runner at the festival who will put up a good showing.
Not a bad start to the new season for ELGIN.
A listed handicap win at Ascot and now a graded win at Cheltenham in the Greatwood.
Although this horse is homebred, he is not from one of our foundation mares families.
Its been a pretty good year all in all!
A listed handicap win at Ascot and now a graded win at Cheltenham in the Greatwood.
Although this horse is homebred, he is not from one of our foundation mares families.
Its been a pretty good year all in all!
Another good run from ELGIN in the Kingwell Hurdle at Wincanton.
The trainer is now keen on supplementing him for the Champion Hurdle.
It would be great for the club to have a runner in such a Championship race.
He would need to improve again to be in the race at the second last of course.
The trainer is now keen on supplementing him for the Champion Hurdle.
It would be great for the club to have a runner in such a Championship race.
He would need to improve again to be in the race at the second last of course.
best of luck with Elgin. Apart from Buveur, the rest all have questions to answer and Elgin at least has recent form. My only likely bet at the moment is MTOY place only but I might add a similar one on Elgin once the final decs. are known.
Thanks sageform. Although he has won on soft ground, I obviously hoped the rain would stay away.
AK thinks he ideally wants better ground, but we've paid the 20 grand now, and if the race is on he'll be running.
He's in very good nick, and his lead horse won a handicap on the flat off a very lofty racing recently.
Good luck with MTOY. We could have the first three between us.
AK thinks he ideally wants better ground, but we've paid the 20 grand now, and if the race is on he'll be running.
He's in very good nick, and his lead horse won a handicap on the flat off a very lofty racing recently.
Good luck with MTOY. We could have the first three between us.
RPR list now:
Buveur.
Faugheen
MTOY
Wicklow Brave
Elgin.
You are the only one that should improve a bit from that list.
Buveur.
Faugheen
MTOY
Wicklow Brave
Elgin.
You are the only one that should improve a bit from that list.
The absence of MTOY confirms why I very rarely bet until the last half hour before a race. I resisted the temptation to back him until this afternoon. Elgin looks a very realistic place bet now. Hope he runs!
All systems go as far as I am aware. I think he would have to be ill/injured not to run now we've spent 20 grand for the priveledge...
Good luck.
BBC
Good luck.
BBC
Exposed by some very good opposition but you did beat Faugheen.
A very solid run on the ground thanks sageform. Just after two out I was getting a little excited-they just ran away from him in the ground. Far from disgraced and beat The Kingwell oppo further this time.
Watch out for him in a 1M 4F maiden on the flat sometime in the not too distant future....
Watch out for him in a 1M 4F maiden on the flat sometime in the not too distant future....
I'm not sure what Alan is thinking sageform, but I presume he's aiming for the top end of the market, so possibly Cup races?
No point in him running in 0-70's on the flat-I think he can still improve over hurdles and especially on better ground.
No point in him running in 0-70's on the flat-I think he can still improve over hurdles and especially on better ground.
A 16k maiden against a bunch of moderate horses would have been a nice start though
It would have been of course. Something a little more modest probably to start with.
ELGIN engaged at Wolverhampton on Saturday at 8.30 in a 1M4F flat maiden.
A very promising run from ELGIN last night. I have to say with a better ride he could have been even closer, and giving 20lbs to two decent three year olds may not be a bad run after all.
This running of the horse on the flat has not been without its critics. Those of us who have been in the club for a while remember the very useful DANCING BAY (trained by Nicky Henderson)who was rated 145 over hurdles and 116 on the flat. Indeed he got to within 6L of Westerner in the French Gold Cup.
He was pretty useful.
This running of the horse on the flat has not been without its critics. Those of us who have been in the club for a while remember the very useful DANCING BAY (trained by Nicky Henderson)who was rated 145 over hurdles and 116 on the flat. Indeed he got to within 6L of Westerner in the French Gold Cup.
He was pretty useful.
I was slightly disappointed but the link between flat and hurdle form has never been strong. As you say, the 3yo's could have been useful and Elgin will be better on a galloping turf track.
I think the plan is Chelmsford next week.....TBC of course.
I think Alan fully expects him to wain a maiden at least.
I think Alan fully expects him to wain a maiden at least.
Great effort by Judicial today. Just got lonely close home.
Yes thanks sageform. He was a little unlucky. That would have been a decent family double! He'll improve for that a bit as well. He's in the Kings Stand and the only option before that may be the Temple.
Elgin runs again at Chelmsford tomorrow night. He has an obvious chance I would think.
Not really a test but worth getting experience on the flat. He would be interesting in a 14 furlong handicap now.
sageform of course he needs another run to get a mark. I think that currently he'd be around 85. The only other alternative is not to go the handicap route of course....
He will be spending a month in a field at some point so we could do that now and potentially go down the Cup route, or find another novice and get him handicapped and put him away for something a bit later on.
If there is a definitive plan, we've not been told. Yet.
He will be spending a month in a field at some point so we could do that now and potentially go down the Cup route, or find another novice and get him handicapped and put him away for something a bit later on.
If there is a definitive plan, we've not been told. Yet.
Isn't a win and a place enough for a handicap mark these days? If I may be so bold, his first run didn't scream cup races but I know he has to learn a new job. I think that he will always be best on a long straight and easy bends type of course.
Not now sageform. Three runs to get a handicap mark. Gives the handicapper a better chance to assess a horse accurately. You can kind of see the point. How many Stoute/Gosden/O'Brien maidens end up being handicapped because of who trains them rather than what they've achieved?
It works both ways of course.
It works both ways of course.
Yes, I had forgotten that. Hence the need for more novice races.
Yep, that's it. It will be interesting to see how they approach this. Another novice or conditions race to get a mark, or put him away to go for something better.
The Ebor has been mentioned! He will have to win a decent novice or at least place in a listed to get enough weight to get in there. The problem is the lack of races above 12 furlongs that would give that sort of rating (last year lowest rating was 101).
Hi sageform-yes I saw Alan mentioned it on RUK at the weekend. I'd be surprised because not only would he need to be rated 100+, but the Ebor is usually run on fast ground. He's not a horse we'd want to run on fast ground.
Top Tug (also with AK) is also going for Royal Ascot with the Ebor as a long term target too, so it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Top Tug (also with AK) is also going for Royal Ascot with the Ebor as a long term target too, so it doesn't make a lot of sense.
With the big danger out, Elgin should have another exercise gallop at Catterick so we will be none the wiser about his flat ability.
It was another easy win as you say sageform. So what's his mark going to be? He beat a 88 rated horse easily giving him 7lb. He'ss going to be rated between 95-100 I think. If not more.
Trainer has said his target will be 'one of the big middle distance summer handicaps'. Ebor was mentioned previously.
100 would be harsh on the bare form but he did look to have a lot in hand. That would get him into the Ebor if that is the target.
I think 100 would be harsh too, but he easily beat a 88 rated horse giving him 7lb.
The Ebor is run on fast ground most years, and I'm not sure that's ideal.
He needs a break too. The Champion Hurdle in 2019 remains a priority.
The Ebor is run on fast ground most years, and I'm not sure that's ideal.
He needs a break too. The Champion Hurdle in 2019 remains a priority.
The 12 furlong handicap at Royal Ascot would not seem a bad shout if he is still OK, then a break until the autumn.
Top Tug may go for the Ascot Handicap or straight to the Plate.
Ebor for Elgin I think. He should get in of 101.
Ebor for Elgin I think. He should get in of 101.
Top Tug is going for the Ascot handicap-he's been left unchanged on 105.
AK expected Elgin to get a mid 90's rating but he got 101 instead. I think that's workable.
AK expected Elgin to get a mid 90's rating but he got 101 instead. I think that's workable.
Thanks sageform-I think everything is in his favour today and he should go very close.
Thanks sageform-he won easily in the end. If you look at his form using a line through Mabs Cross then he's pretty decent I think.
The Nunthorpe is the big target. He is also entered in a G2 in Ireland next month too.
The Nunthorpe is the big target. He is also entered in a G2 in Ireland next month too.
PS Both of our RA runners will run well too. TRIBUTE ACT is not there for a day out. Mr F doesn't normally waste 15 grand on supplementing them if they've no chance.
Top Tug will go well on Friday as well. He was 4th last year and I'd expect another bold bid too. Loves the fast ground.
Top Tug will go well on Friday as well. He was 4th last year and I'd expect another bold bid too. Loves the fast ground.
Couldn't bring myself to bet at evens against some good old sprinters but very easy. I am on Tribute Act e/w though.
Great effort but the winner came past going 2 gears faster. Like the Queen Anne, it paid to wait a long time before challenging.
We never get information like 'shes catching pigeons at home and we expect her to go very close' but you get to read between the lines. There were some very strong vibes coming out of the stable. She's worked very well with ZEST who although is a nut job and in foal, always works like a group filly.
Its fair to say that yesterday's run wasn't entirely unexpected. Glad you were on sageform. We are of course very pleased.
She was actually declared for the Hunt Cup as well and was balloted out. I was slightly gutted as I had backed her at 33/1, and clearly she had a few pounds in hand! :-)
Its fair to say that yesterday's run wasn't entirely unexpected. Glad you were on sageform. We are of course very pleased.
She was actually declared for the Hunt Cup as well and was balloted out. I was slightly gutted as I had backed her at 33/1, and clearly she had a few pounds in hand! :-)
Hope for a good run from Top Tug but a lot of luck needed in these big fields. At least he has been there before.
ELGIN entered at HQ in a 1m 4f listed race on Saturday.
Great result and sensible ride by Paul M. Knowing Muthmir had to come late he was prominent all the way and just held on.
Yes sageform-the jock kept it simple. I think he idled in front to be honest, he'd have preferred a bit of cover but he got too much cover at Haydock of course....
The key was to prevent Mushmir getting close enough to challenge until it was too late. Mirza might have been 50/1 but he was high class in his day and like Judicial is out of a very good sprinting mare. Were you the owner interviewed by the way?
I think we got the luck we didn't get at Haydock sageform. No it wasn't me, I wasn't there. The chance of getting a paddock place on a Saturday is pretty remote to be honest!
Next target is the Sapphire in a fortnight the The Nunthorpe.
Next target is the Sapphire in a fortnight the The Nunthorpe.
Acid test for Elgin today. Is he really a 98 handicapper with so little flat experience?
ELGIN has unfortunately suffered a tendon injury in a field and will miss the whole of the jumps season (for those of you interested).
That is a real shame as he could have done well back over hurdles.
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