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Off the toe
28 Oct 16 13:26
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Date Joined: 07 Sep 05
| Topic/replies: 1,752 | Blogger: Off the toe's blog
Pleased to announce stallion fees for 2017
SHOWCASING £35,000
ADAAY £7,000 (pictured)
DUE DILIGENCE £5,500
SWISS SPIRIT £4,000
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Report Wilycayote October 28, 2016 3:59 PM BST
About what I expected.

might be tempted to take a gamble on Swiss S on a mare that could do with a bit of luck. (I have a few!)
Report yer ma October 29, 2016 12:22 PM BST
30K Median, 43k Avergage.  7 out of 46 yearlings offered in 2016 sold for more than £50k.  Not in the top 25 of sires by wins / winners, 2yo winners or prizemoney.   I must be missing something.
Report Wilycayote October 29, 2016 2:16 PM BST
I see what you're saying but what else in that price bracket is there? Dutch Art is off the boil and if you want anything else proven you're looking at 50k +

I don't have this problem, but i imagine if you have a 100k mare it's difficult to find a proven stallion you can use in U.K. without spending a fortune. IMHO I think the market expects too much as to what young stallions with runners must achieve to be "acceptable". Hence the lack of proven affordable sires.

Which stallions from this crop of first runners this year would you use next year?....tricky (Mayson)?
Report potentialmillionaire October 29, 2016 2:44 PM BST
Showcasing I presume?

I have quite a lot of memories of good stallions struggling through their dross mare years commercially. Danehill Dancer's fee went ever skywards whilst the lesser crops didn't sell to reflect this.
I must say my eyebrows were raised at the 35 but there is a lot of goodwill behind the horse and I think everyone thinks he is a good stallion. His early and interim mares were often poor and not very plentiful too.
Having bitten the bullet and used him last year, I am a little relieved, and biased! but a young upwardly mobile stallion is very tough to land on, get into or afford and I think that the 15 k Kyllachys that people can go off in a moment are the expensive sires.
The other thing that I think is particularly pertinent is his book sizes. They cannot cover massive books because of Southern Hemisphere contractural clauses and I think that I am more and more prepared to pay a bit more to avoid being one of a yeomanstown/Tally ho sized crop when every single one of them is going to be at the sales against you.

If you are a gambler, Swiss Spirit is without doubt the one to be on.

I am pleased that Due Dilligence has come down a la Cable Bay and my god Adaay needs to do the same next year too. But I think it is a lot more honest reflection of the industry to charge a good whack first time up and then rein back a bit through the following tricky years.
Report Wilycayote October 29, 2016 5:53 PM BST
Agree completely.

Particularly relevant your point on restricted book sizes. I think more people are working this out, but surprised it's taken so long. Part of the reason the "ok" Irish stallions sink so quickly is because everyone has had one or two early on.
Report Formtwist October 29, 2016 7:26 PM BST
For me, Showcasing hasn't proven himself a consistent enough sire at this level, but clearly there is sufficient demand for him to justify increasing the fee. Good luck to all involved with him. To answer your point above, Wily, about this year's first season sires, I did tip up Mayson as a possible leading sire and he has done enough to justify using him, with all the caveats of size, conformation etc. His yearling sales held up and the stud support will stand him in good stead the next few years. However, pertinent to this thread, Foxwedge did the shuttlers a favour with his performance, and we were given to understand he would be back here for 2017. Has there been a re-think, or is the fee just in abeyance?
Report potentialmillionaire October 29, 2016 8:07 PM BST
Apparently you have to sell a lot of nominations to pay the lease on a stallion like Foxwedge so no he isn't coming back.
Sepoy has done well in my opinion of the shuttlers. Plenty of 90 plussers plenty of unexposed and stakes horses too. With good back end activity next year he should progress too.
Mayson is always going to need soft ground is he not?
Report proxygene October 29, 2016 8:15 PM BST
If you are talking restricted/managed book sizes then I think Cheveley have nailed it. Kyllachy for some years has given breeders the chance of making a profit perhaps more than any other stallion at a middle market fee. Sadly I cant quite reach it at this stage.

Lanwades head a little more into owner breeder territory but I find myself hoping Bobbys Kitten is in range but not cheap,( even though I dont like his action, effective though it was)

I think Swiss Spirit could make it though it may not be in his first season. He looks like they might not be particularly precocious to me. I shall have to wait +- miss the boat.
Report yer ma October 29, 2016 9:58 PM BST
Im sure you'll make your Showcasing work PotM.  I like him but he's too much.  I'd take anything north of even money this will be the most he'll ever stand for.  Illuminating that Shadwell seemed so keen on Swiss Spirit yearlings, what with Adaay appearing at the stud.
Report Formtwist October 29, 2016 10:34 PM BST
Yer Ma, fully agree and neatly put. Not getting Foxwedge back is a mistake, I think, as not only did he achieve enough himself to return, but his sire has finally justified the support of Coolmore the last two years and would have helped him along. Sepoy has done well, but I don't think he outperforms Foxwedge allowing for fee, pedigree and type of mare covered. As for Mayson, the statistics don't support the soft ground theory. His stock are on the small side, but then he went to stud at 15.3 was re-assessed 16.1 the next year I seem to recall. Plenty have an unappealing action but it seems to be offset by attitude and ability. I don't think his fee will spiral and he might be a decent bet given the right mare type.
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