Nathanial

Great Heavens you are an impatient chap! Stamina pedigree and quality big books of the sort of mares that take time. Judge him 12 months on, not now. Can't think you'd be planning on using him, so why are you bothered?

You are kidding me on a bit there aren't you FT? He looks pretty disastrous to me.

Kidding, well snap judgements of this sort of sire rather get my goat...l.

Sorry FT but it's not a snap judgement, it's a fair assessment of his performance. How many £20k stallions couldn't produce a 2yo better than RP 85 rated and made a good stallion. I can't find any, even Duke of Marmalade did better as did no end of current NH stallions.

Still nothing by Nathaniel to get excited about. There will need to be some good 3yo maidens next season.

As soon as the box gets back from drooping Mount Nelson off he will be up the road.

Have we all seen the new ad.?

It tables Nathan and his siblings showing their improvement from 2 to 3!

Enough people seemed to buy into this thought at the yearling sales and it is nice to see that there are still some around willing to be patient.

Writing on the wall time one way or another by July next season..

Isn't he almost fully syndicated anyway so not so much time pressure and was always expected to be nothing like a 2yo sire?

The blind backing of plenty toffs and 'advisers' means his lack of anything resembling a good horse (he did run very well at 2 in August remember, so did other siblings) this year is being overlooked..for now.

He's the sh1ts, indeed.

He is syndicated for sure but with some of them wishing to sell their nominations and another 100 or so available as normal proxy I still think you'll get one!
Top class horses get out at two through shear raw talent, the slightly more humble stock they produce sadly don't.
I think Silver Hawk is working his thang. Mmm not a help me thinks.

he's got about as much chance as Jeremy Corbyn hosting the next live at the Apollo.

The horsebox carrying Mount Nelson had barely reached the A10 on Saturday when his daughter Strawberry Martini won a Listed race at San Siro.

I know JM. Personally I thought he was doing ok and has been on my list due to the filly deal and there not being much else about.

Couldn't agree more really in regards to the general sentiment on Nathaniel.

I bet pretty heavily in 2yo races and the main criteria I use as a starting point is paddock assessment.  As such any first season's sire's stock is always of the highest interest and right from word go there was little to like about most of the Nathaniel 2yo's I saw on track this year.

Yes it's true he has a stamina laden pedigree and middle distances/time should see his stock at their optimum but you still need the horse to work on from the beginning and nearly all of them I've seen have been 'nothing' types to my eye at least.

He was a good horse and trained by my fav trainer of all time so it's a shame but I guess that's just the game.

Breeders' prejudice against middle-distance sires, and their wanton enthusiasm for speed, is having a deleterious effect on the thoroughbred. The "want it now" mentality has spread to the market, hence the popularity of sires who were not top-class on the track. The balance has moved too far towards speed, and the Classics will soon be an option for only a small percentage of 3YOs.

Small reduction to £17,500 for 2017

Reading this thread I assume people still think that's high?

20k too high for me

20k too high for me

so does that mean 40k too high and Newsells should pay for marespace?

Id like to think so, or alternative maybe just bung me a score so the new mouse doesnt stick as much :D

funny old game.

Its like the Hokey cokey.   In out in out.  Were back in now, but id still like him cheaper

Another Champs Elysees for me and we know what happened to him (rightly or wrongly!)

Both Nathaniel (8) and Champs Elysee (10) are getting plenty of GB winners this month. Just because Nathaniel ran OK at 2 himself does not mean his progeny will be 2yo's. If he is sent staying mares, it will be from now on that the first crop should begin to emerge as a force if they are ever going to.
By comparison, Galileo has 7 GB wins in May, Cape Cross 8, New Approach 9, Shamardal 9, Pivotal 8 and Fastnet Rock 7. 

I know one month is not a significant sample but the concentration on Group winners and money won can skew your judgement of overall ability.

Think he is horrendous myself sageform but each to their own.

well done nathaniel.

Who'd have thought he'd have a European Classic winner before Frankel eh?

Could just be the beginning for Nathaniel. Acid test for Frankel in the Derby tomorrow.

Followed by an acid test for Frankel at Royal Ascot, followed by an acid test for Frankel in the St Leger.
Who knows?  Small sample sizes.
We need about three crops raced and retired for any sire.
Before that happens they cash in their remaining chips, he is shipped off and starts producing Group 1s elsewhere

Third and fourth in the Derby was a fair return for Frankel from first crop. I am still concerned about how many of his 3yo progeny finish placed compared to winners though. They look like winning a furlong out but too many seem to get beaten. Seven Heavens is the worst culprit but Monarchs Glen, Atty Persse and Icespire all seem to be getting worse not better. Not suggesting that the 2 in the Derby chucked it in but some just seem to lack that final furlong speed or determination to me. I think that Eminent is going to be a very high class horse once he matures.

Well Frankel will never have a better book of mares and his stock look decidedly unreliable at the top level. I must admit Nathaniel has done himself proud with the Oak's filly, she looks really good and it's great to see Pour Moi sire a Derby winner. It looks like being a good Leger this year.

Frankel won't get a better book of mares and they look decidedly unreliable in the highest grade. Nathaniel and Pour Moi have both done really well and it looks like a good Leger this year.

the first reply didn't show until I posted the other one??????

Nothing new there honcho. Most websites are slow and unreliable at this time on a Sunday when half of the population are on the web.

Big weekend for Nathaniel. Not only the favourite in the KG, but also Enjoy Vijay as joint fav for the 2nd biggest open aged Gr.1 in Germany on Sunday.

A dream start for Nathaniel's stallion career with the supermare Enable. UK could use a decent middle-distance sire to add to Golden Horn and New Approach.

Who'd have thought that Nathaniel would have the superstar in his first crop that Enable has proved to be?