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Big Black Cat
29 Dec 13 14:54
Date Joined: 04 Oct 02
| Topic/replies: 965 | Blogger: Big Black Cat's blog
A genuine question to the breeders on here, from someone who is not in the Breeding Industry, but someone who is interested in bloodlines and breeding.

We have seen up to 6 million euros change hands for extremely successful (on the track) fillies/mares at some of the big sales recently.

Now, I can see the old adage of breeding the best with the best to give you the best chance of breeding a quality animal.  However, does anything else come into the equation?

Are you trying to buy a 'Foundation mare' for a breeding operation for instance.  Or are you kind of guaranteed when you go to the sales with an ex Immortal Verse or Dancing Rain colt/filly then you are kind of assured a big pay out when it goes through the ring?

So when you are signing the ticket for 6 million Euros for a broodmare, whats going through your mind (apart from 'bugger I hope this is successful!')

Pause Switch to Standard View Expensive broodmares.
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Report Big Black Cat December 29, 2013 3:05 PM GMT
I am also guessing that the catalogue page is extremely important if you are shelling out that amount of dosh (i.e. the actual breeding more so than the Group wins?)
Report proxygene December 29, 2013 4:02 PM GMT
Cant imagine any of their offspring seeing the sales ring so they will be bought to stockpile what trusted advisors think is the best money can buy.
Report ffs December 30, 2013 4:30 AM GMT
You're trying to breed a good stallion. That means pedigree way back the page. It also means you intend to race the offspring and breed from the cream of the offspring.
Report ffs December 30, 2013 4:31 AM GMT
i.e. just to be clear - you will be standing any stallion she throws.
Report ffs December 30, 2013 4:39 AM GMT
that said, Chicquita will be staying in training next year I believe
Report Big Black Cat December 30, 2013 12:10 PM GMT
Thanks ffs and PG

So a huge gamble then given the odds of throwing a stallion or a top class animal? 

Seeing some of the purchasers of said animals, one can only assume that this sort of money is pocket change to them.

I suppose that this sort of mare very much increases the odds of doing so-or maybe not?
Report potentialmillionaire December 30, 2013 2:58 PM GMT

Valuing a filly or mare at public auction is pretty much madness really. It's all well and good going to the sales to buy a foal or yearling and deciding if this happens (talent or great progress) or that (slow or an injury) then knowing the ongoing market you can all have a pretty good guess where you will find yourself.

Any buyer who attempts to predict the future fiscal progress of a mare, well where do you begin? Dead foals, no foals, slow foals, unsound foals. All fillies, all colts, sires of whom become no good anything you care to mention really.
Starting with the best is the best place to start and the auction arena fuels those rich folks desire over and above what is strictly sensible for what is obviously the best.

These are silly prices for you and me but I daresay your budget for a pair of jeans may be more than mine but as long as we can both pay the cashier, we don't really make any news and you get to stay off The front pages with your rash purchase!!

I don,t really think anyone goes shopping for a mare in the hope she will breed them a stallion - those odds are crazy bad and even these guys don't chase that. However if you are buying from a good family and you continue successfully with it's development then as we have highlighted, the next generation their fillies and mares will have plenty of residual and that's where they hope to claw some of it back.

Even the total owner breeders hope to balance some of the books by sale of a well credentialed filly, a discreet yearling, a 100 rated colt to Hong Kong or a stayer to Graham Wylie. These mares all can help in that respect and it's just a case of which buyer judges the pay days these mares can provide to be the greatest.
Report ffs December 30, 2013 6:35 PM GMT
well I'd look at Love me True who made about $1.5m as a hugely expensive yearling to Coolmore, and has gone on to give them Duke of Marmalade and Ruler of the World. Obv, not every filly / broodmare is going to work out, but getting any at that quality is what makes it pay. Duke hasn't done well but I'd guess he'd have been valued around the €30m bracket at one point, Ruler is probably not far off that figure. So, you can have a good few duds and come away smiling if you have those deep pockets.

Another I'd look at is Jim Bolger who keeps about 70 broodmares and though he's not paying €6m for a 3yo filly, if he can get one Dawn Approach or Trading Leather each year he's minting money.
Report neill d December 30, 2013 7:19 PM GMT
Ruler looks like a really typical son of Galileo and should land a 10f Group 1 next year, he should really excel at stud, much better page than something like the Rip and more like his Dad.
Report potentialmillionaire December 30, 2013 8:17 PM GMT
Ruler is certainly with potential. However it's a fine line to the N.H. Game with his type and he could easily drift that way.
He has never beaten much in his wins and if he doesn't continue developing enough speed then only his connections can stand between him and  North Lightdom perhaps.

30m euro territory is a way off.
Report neill d December 30, 2013 8:58 PM GMT
The Champion Stakes off the back of a tough Arc run told me h is pretty good. Farbh is a fine horse and he gave him all that he could handle. He looks tailor made for an Irish Champion Stakes and will probably have bagged at least a Tatts Gold Cup before that so I think he will get his win. We are due a bad summer now in Ireland so that will basically leave our 10f races at his mercy I'd say PM.

They'll surely be keen to get behind a son of Galileo having missed New Approach and to a lesser extent Teofilo. I wouldn't be sure on the Rip and with Fastnet not really working out up here so far might it be time to get back to bread and butter a little bit for all Pierro and War Front will occupy a lot of attention.
Report neill d December 30, 2013 8:59 PM GMT
Very quiet here these days, nice to see a thread like this!!
Report Big Black Cat December 31, 2013 9:58 AM GMT
Thanks for the interesting posts.

Your reply PM is kind of the idea I was thinking of-buying a successful extremely well bred mare and breeding from her-if she doesn't throw a top class animal then you have her daughters to breed from and have a line of well bred mares in your broodmare band.

And of course, if sending her to Galileo doesn't work, then there are plenty of top stallions to try, as I am assuming that if you are shelling out 6m euros for a mare, then a covering fee for a top stallion will not be a problem?

I also agree that Mr Bolger seems to have a very tidy breeding operation.
Report kincsem December 31, 2013 7:54 PM GMT
There is not much difference between the auction millionaire fillies and colts and those with good pedigrees.  At the top level it is imo a p1551ng contest.
Whatever happened to $16 million The Green Monkey?  Three maiden starts, and he was 7 lengths+ off winning.  Retired.
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