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New sires for 2014
New sires for 2014
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Khalid Abdulla has retained al of 5 breeding rights to Cityscape - hardly a ringing endorsement is it.
Declaration of War to retire to stud after the Breeders Cup. Interesting to see what price they pitch him at - 20K - 25K maybe ?? I was at Newbury and Goodwood this year and did I take a picture of him? Nope because that would have been useful  . Dam is a half sister to a Belmont winner and has bred some other decent ish offspring. Interesting. |
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Looking pretty dire in the sub 10k bracket whilst there is an abundance of choice (some wiser than others I suggest) in the 20-40k. Camelot, Al K, Dec of War, Intello, Dawn App vs Society Rock, Havana Gold, Finjaan...
Going to need some inspired first 2yo season gamble I fear. |
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I'm pretty sure Red Jazz is retiring to Ireland next year.
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Red Jazz?!
Holy cow, if something does emerge from the woodwork, they are gonna be knocked over in the rush. I don't think I'm going to play the 25 k market but I agree with yer ma, it is looking much more promising. I'm keen on Declaration of War, but if his fee is workable so will 200 others. I can feel,a,new thread coming on. . . |
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Well 18k then for Al Kazeem
Not much there to tempt a commercial breeder to take a chance on a huge backward unsound campaigner. |
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Well....Red Jazz it is then!
this is going to be a tricky season for those of us that like to fish in the 4k-8k pool.... |
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I don't fish in that pool Wilycayote, I eat, sleep and breath in it. Oh for the day my fins will evolve into little legs and I can crawl out of it.
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Swiss Spirit anyone?
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I backed him in the Temple Stakes and couldnt believe how he nearly managed to win after getting poleaxed at the start, a serious effort that day. Shame he didnt get to train on next year, but will help keep him in my price bracket!
Always hoped I might pick up a mare/filly from a branch of his family, but by yesterday's prices for rubbish fillies I think I should keep dreaming. |
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how much will Swiss Spirit be? They may have been planning to campaign him in G1's next
year but G3 is his level. they have a few of books to fill at Whitsbury, all at similar prices. I have one that would suit him and one for Showcasing. Would they deal? It was suggested that Showcasing's price may rise. Is Foxwedge going to be in demand with his sire not setting the world alight (yet). |
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I might have a cheap mare that suits Swiss Spirit (depending on his price). Get the feeling he fills the same kind of bracket as Kodiac/Zebedee in their first seasons, although it seems Timeform have him considerably above those two.
Lordship should support him which might also help long term? |
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I looked at Swiss Spirit on paper and he looks 20lbs worse as a 2yo than as a mature horse as do his siblings. He needed fairly specific circumstances to record only one or 2 good results. He might get a share of wins in first season but poss not class or precocity really, sounds a bit like Sakhees Secret then.
Anyone know what he looks like? |
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I've been told that Swiss Spirit will be very close to 5K.
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Was hoping for 4k.
Proxygene, I take your point but you could say the same thing about Lethal Force, Mayson etc. I prefer horses like them that have proved they can mix it with top sprinters as a 3/4yo, than a Sir Prancelot type character who would probably not train on at all. WHat I like is both his sire (I.Spirit) and Damsire (I.RIdge) started at low fees and ended up champions. Also thinking about Cityscape. The adverts say he's from the family of Redoute's Choice. Is this relevant or miles back on a different page? |
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Lethal force >100 RPR as a 2 year old, then top class later on multiple occasions so must be more expensive, Dark Angel will aid precocity.
Mayson just a bogtrotter. Think with my maiden couldn't risk an SS anyway but scratching around for something proven and 'sensible' let alone commercial. |
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Proxygene
I don't think Kheleyf is bad value for a maiden mare. He does get plenty of winners and his yearlings will sell. He is at £5k but you will get him for £4k. |
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Proxygene
I don't think Kheleyf is bad value for a maiden mare. He does get plenty of winners and his yearlings will sell. He is at £5k but you will get him for £4k. |
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Thats the current boy of choice but are they sane enough for a novice breeder and er sparky mare?
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The colt I bred last year was a proper Christian. never had a days problem with him. He was the first I'd bred. I suppose I could have been lucky but he had loads of viewings at the sale and his maiden mother was very moderately bred.
I know Kheleyf isn't everyone's cup of tea but I'm looking to buy one at the foal sale next month because I know plenty of small trainers will have him on their list. He is a cast iron proven getter of 2yo winners. At less than £5k who else is there? |
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Swiss Spirit £4.5k. Is he a lot better than Red Jazz PotM? Are Whitsbury going to get knocked over in the rush?
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Think they'll be busy enough at that, although I'll still expect to haggle.
My favourite stallion with first crop yearlings at the sales was Zebedee (Invincible Spirit) by a mile. I like the idea of going to a new son of I.S. before they run, especially since SS did actually get to compete against the top sprinters. Dont think my budget can stretch to Reckless Abandon at 10E, especially factoring in the extra cost of travel to Ireland. |
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Red Jazz is at Ballyhane.
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Th
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Well that worked well!
Thanks JohnnyM for that. I feel nowadays that Ballyhane is very much an Irish Domain with not enough appeal for a UK breeder. The website is always out of date and there is not enough promo over here. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for the right sire, but I'm not keen to go over for Red Jazz! Mind you, hypocritical to the last I have Dandy on the radar. That's about as interesting fee announcement as any due, well that and Dark Angel! Most Improved? I wonder how much they paid for him because I sort of thought he would disappear without trace after his post 2012 st James's Palace disasters. Yet they are having a go. Is the Castle Hyde announcement a thinly veiled nod to 'dual purpose'? Whatever that means! |
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Pot M,word is that Dark Angel going to be around 25k. Any thoughts on where Mastercraftsmans fee will/should end up !
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Thanks for that eastmond.
I'd better not spend too much time thinking about D A in case your sources are inaccurate although from your tone I suspect they won't be! I think Mastercraftsmen deserves a hike but we shouldn't get too carried away as this 1st crop will be from decent enough mares and he really hasn't had a huge amount of goodwill subsequently. Things could tail off for him for a while now and I wouldn't want to be sitting on a very expensive pregnancy. |
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Mastercraftsman has a large whiff of HRE. I nearly got him for 8k last year and still wouldnt pay 15k this year as the sales simply didnt stack up. Looks like he'll get nice horses but people arent going to pay big bucks for more than a handful. Big risk at 25k as you say PotM. Would make Dawn Approach or Camelot at 25k seem like shooting rats in a barrel.
Re. Ballyhane - I see they've now taken on a sales person but little story to back PotM and UK breeders theory. Left numerous messages with them Jan / Feb no answer or call back. Eventually had conversation about THREE mares - didnt call us back with offer. 'Bunch of boggers' was the colloquial phrase employed by my good wife. |
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yer ma, I'm worried we are in agreement too much at the moment
 That Ballyhane story beggars belief though. I suppose in defence, the owner is a nice chap and well liked in the industry. A bit of goodwill perhaps makes up for some deficiencies. If you've got a moment, Where are you on Dandy? |
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Like previous posts have my doubts about mastercraftsman, but obviously merited some kinda increase and I certainly would have considered if could get for 15k (maybe even 20), however, according to dispatches now looks like we're going to have to go to 30k !!
Options getting more and more limited. Looks like we'll have to really look at new kids |
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As I alluded to I had (no aftertiming as mentioned this last year) suspicion Dandy Man would be ok and had a mare for him but clearly didn't happen (requinto instead). Irrational but I cant convince myself to go back once a ship has sailed. I also doubt many will train on / stay further to group class, its very interesting 3 of his best are with Fahey who doesnt leave much behind at 2. Overall he'd be risky at 8k esp for a filly but maybe they wont get greedy.
Final point (and I'll leave actual stats to the more dedicate responders) is this years first season havent exactly set any fires imo. Interesting that last son of Mozart regarded as a flop had....17 first season winners, DM on that figure now. |
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A salient point on Amadeus Wolf. Very much a question of perception that one isn't it. Hopes so high for AW he would find it easy to disappoint and Dandy Man has perhaps climbed the hill from the other direction giving a better impression with perhaps no better results.
Maybe Dandy Man is one to sit on the fence with for a bit longer. I,ve got a youngish mare who has made a promising start but I would like to go proven this time as she has two by unproven in the pipeline so if she needs help for a runner I don't feel guilty that I haven't offered it. Problem is that the goodish provens are in my opinion likely to be too expensive so I am thinking I should be looking to downgrade her to get a good match a la Prima Donna. Problem is, of course I want the same bang for my few bucks as with the options costing a few more and it's difficult to catch them on the way up as we all know! |
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yer
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whoops
Yer Ma, I think Requinto was well priced compared to some offerings this year. Swiss Spirit is the same price, I know who I'd prefer. |
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Requinto won the worst Gr2 ever, beating Burwaaz and Caladonia Lady, and wasnt even allowed to run as a 3yo. Swiss Spirit beat the likes of Reckless Abandon and Lethal Force in different races, I know which I prefer too!
I'm more mystified why 4 of the stallions at Lanwades are all at £6,000? or is there some benefit in doing this that I haven't been clever enough to think of!? |
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Requinto will do fine I'd say / hope. He looks good, he's from a fast & precocious family and I didnt pay the headline price. Can't really compare 2yo group races to old sprinters stakes racing imo. One could say Swiss Spirit's last group place was is a very ropy Grp2 but basically most group sprints are 100+ handicaps First season Swiss Spirit vs 2nd season Requinto I'd probably side with the later assuming he looks ok (which I don't know).
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btw 7.5k for Camacho. Can you imagine what he covered in the last two years. For the olders observers...Re. Dark Angel (and the Darley boys too) - is this outlandish increasing in fees a new thing? The disconnect between the fee and the likely price for a yearling (historically let alone in 2 years) is amazing.
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I was pleasantly surprised by the picture of Requinto on the website yer ma.
He didn't float my boat for one reason or another but he certainly has a strong commercial look about him with scope for a really bull like sales horse. I am guessing you are all but done with fillies right now so I hope that bit goes right for you at least! 27500 for Dark Angel is about where I thought they'd be. He does though seem to have a propensity for producing a ropey looking horse as well as the obvious sale topper and it's not a median that stands any close inspection, however much the journo's insist on ignoring it and quoting a usually misleading average. The gap between disappointment and success (which in fairness Dark Angel won't be too vulnerable to) is pretty unwieldy in a horse like Camacho for sure. I think he has promise but is anyone brave enought to trust in him for the future when as yer ma says the gap to make up is Grand Canyon sized. |
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Swiss Spirit 1st season, providing he gets good sorts, will be commercial,no doubt about that.Personally I'd use him over Requinto even if they were starting off together and most certainly over a cheap 2nd season Coolmore horse which is always dodgy ground. Swiss Spirit is a great looking horse.....as we endlessly say that's half the battle. With commercial nous the fact he is a son of Invincible Spirit would be a huge advantage,definite momentum behind that sire and plenty going for his sons as well. Play that against Requinto, think back to the last atypical 2yo son of Dansili who also retired to Coolmore. Who would want a 2nd crop Strategic Prince over a 1st crop Zebedee?
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I'm pleased you've seen Swiss Spirit Prima as I am now hanging on your every word on the matter. He certainly looks as if he might be nice from the website but obviously when you are snorkelling through the murky depths the last thing you need is a ropey looker!
I don't really trust his pedigree one bit, but as we always say, a pedigree has to start somewhere and his has certainly been nice and current. |