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04 Dec 12 11:48
Date Joined: 24 Feb 12
| Topic/replies: 440 | Blogger: proxygene's blog
Have just acquired a field and barn, have a filly coming out of training and a mare that might not sell at Tatts, so am in transit from being a hands off to wellies on breeder. I'll try not to be too novicey about it, but will certainly appreciate advice when needed. Ta.
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Report Prima Donna December 4, 2012 4:49 PM GMT
No question is mundane if you are needing an answer to it. Ask away Proxygene, and good luck with your new experience.Grin
Report roadrunner46 December 4, 2012 11:29 PM GMT
goodluck hope you breed some good horses.
Report proxygene January 25, 2013 12:08 PM GMT
Unless I inadvertantly starve my stock should I worry about the shady oak overhanging part of the paddock.

I am likely to graze that bit over the Summer then avoid the acorns in the Autumn but do I need to acorn pick or can I ignore them?

Report potentialmillionaire January 27, 2013 8:23 PM GMT
proxy, I've thought a bit about this one as I know there are thos that strive for perfection in everything and those that think you can't make a cake withouth breaking a few eggs. As you probably guess I reckon you need to eat a peck of dirt befor you die and I don't worry too much about acorns. I have plnty of oak tres and one mare in particular that likes to hoover them up.

However, I know that this is frequently considered very bad practice so do some more research is my advice!

Hope the above covers me, should your lawyers come to call!
Report Prima Donna January 27, 2013 8:37 PM GMT
I wouldn't worry that much about acorns proxygene,like Pot M we have plenty of Oaks and yes the horses do eat them,I've never yet had a do I now know for sure that tomorrow I will suffer mass loss of mares due to colic induced by eating tonnes of the things!Cry
Report potentialmillionaire January 27, 2013 9:41 PM GMT
I should add, My acorn lover is 22 this time. How I wish the bl00dy things would bring a bit of closure and stop that particular feed bill Laugh
Report proxygene January 27, 2013 11:24 PM GMT
Thanks, If I can be arsed making a token gesture of picking some then I can post them all to you, they are special cheshire Saxon wood ones so might be more potent...
Report Lairy Mary January 29, 2013 5:39 PM GMT
Mmmmm...I'm in the Prevention is better than Cure camp, myself.  9 times out of 10, the horses will ignore the acorns especially if there is plenty of grass but what if the 10th mare is your favourite, you've paid a fair bit for her and her first foal you bred is the nicest you've ever seen?

Acorn poisoning is nasty and if it whacks out the kidneys then the damage might be irreparable.  Sorry but as a vets daughter, I'm only passing on what I would preach!
Report proxygene February 4, 2013 10:15 PM GMT
Thanks LM, exposure to acorns is seeming quite a long way off as just been patching up wounds in the dark and to make things more edgy our 1st thunderstorm is now passing over. I'm sure the horse can always out think me in creative ways of self destruction so trying to avoid the more obvious ones will make me feel better if nothing else.
Report proxygene February 18, 2013 6:28 PM GMT
What does anyone else small scale do about third party/public liability insurance?
Report potentialmillionaire February 18, 2013 8:57 PM GMT
One's head is firmly in the sand! Am I covered through the TBA or some such? I think it helps to be a one man band with the attendant responsibility to prevent the disasters!
Report Lairy Mary February 21, 2013 2:08 PM GMT
Know the feeling PM!  As a small trainer, initially I took out personal/public liability as I wanted to do everything properly.  However as the premiums soared, I simply couldn't afford it and so dropped it.  Suprisingly it wasn't one of the conditions of holding a public licence.  There was just myself and my partner to worry about and the odd person to ride out.

It really depends how much outsiders come onto your property - farriers, vets, potential purchasers?  What if worst case scenario, one of your mares let fly and someone got kicked in the head causing massive trauma.  You only have to think about the case at Wolverhampton with Chris Kinane.  I think I'm correct in saying the claim bankrupted the owner and trainer?   Some may think it sounds selfish to claim such huge amounts but when you look at long-term full-time care for someone badly injured, that is why the indemnity is for such a large sum.

If you do go ahead, then I would recommend a company in Marlborough called BASIC run by a bloke called Hamish Scott-Dalgleish.  Hes a decent bloke and settles claims without any agro!
Report proxygene February 21, 2013 9:19 PM GMT
It's not so much outsiders on the premises as spooking on the way in and running into the main road.

They are worth not a lot (one a 23yo companion) but leisure policies exclude commercial circumstances like I aspire to, so as a bolt on to mortality insurance goes against the grain too.

I will endeavour to follow up on your suggestion though thanks.

PS doesnt the TBA membership policy apply to being away from home only?
Report Lairy Mary February 21, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
No idea re TBA.  Am now using NFU for farm purposes and they did settle when some t*sser ran into my horse and claimed it was my fault.  To be fair to NFU they did come out and go through incident v closely and queried amount bloke was claiming (£2,500 for small dent in his car) - think he got half what he claimed for in the end.  But all animals on farm are covered for such even though I was riding horse at the time and it was on B road that bisects property.
Report proxygene February 22, 2013 9:21 AM GMT
Looks like BASIC is now the Berkshire branch of Lycetts too so I already have a Q from them.
Report proxygene May 13, 2013 12:53 AM BST
Nettles, source of Iron. enjoyed by some? so left them in situ.
Dipstick mare rolled in them, urticaria wobbliness discomfort ensued.
3 dock leaves only to hand certainly made me feel better but would you mow, spray or assume more sense tomorrow (unlikely though it may seem)
Thanks again
Report Lairy Mary May 13, 2013 11:50 AM BST
Doubtful your mare will eat nettles! Only if very hungry!  I was getting my horse (same dipstick car ran into) ready for a charity race and was just getting back on at the top of the gallops (after answering a coffee-induced call of nature) when he spun round as he heard another horse approaching and promptly sat down in patch of young nettles - cue completely over the top reaction - waving leg around as if broken.  I fortunately got him home and raided neighbours fields for docks leaves which we made into a paste which did work.

But with both nettles & docks I would spray to kill off (keep stock off for a week afterwards and don't spray if its likely to rain for obvious reasons!)- may take more than one year but our fields are dock, nettle & thistle free.  We also keep a small flock of sheep (13) to rotate with the horses to keep breaking worm cycle of each.  The sheep also do a great job of eating out all the rough areas.  We then roll and chain harrow as needed.  This year for the first time in a long time we've also chucked on some fertiliser although in preference I would have got local farmer to muck spread.

I am always amazed by the lack of attention paid to grazing by people with horses. 

Aforementioned dipstick of a horse is currently standing in yard on 2.5 legs after an encounter with a sheep hurdle which he then proceeded to drag around field.  He has abrasions and filled legs so clearly needs antibiotics so am awaiting fellow forumite to administer as needle phobia (mine) and 20cc of penicillin do not mix!
Report potentialmillionaire May 14, 2013 2:30 PM BST
proxy, you know I'm going to be non-interventionist don't you!

I never spray as I am completely organic and the only weapon against the weeds is the topper or strimmer.

I'd say, silly cow you'll learn next time won't you and I take comfort that Lairy Mary, a vets daughter, hasn't got to wound up about your urticaria!
Report proxygene May 14, 2013 4:51 PM BST
Many thanks for your replies, it's the difference of opinion that reassures me I'm not so out of touch and there is more than one way to go about things.

I am intrigued what psychological scarring causes needle phobia in a vets daughter, maybe I shouldn't ask; but on the other hand maybe I should...
Report Lairy Mary May 15, 2013 7:29 PM BST
Absaloutly no idea!  I was fine at college when I injected cattle & sheep (and oranges to practice on!), I was fine in the US when I worked as a vets assistant but somewhere along the line, I became a bit squeamish.  I used to hold up sedated horses heads on my shoulder while they were having a tracteotomy while I worked in Maryland and the smell of the hot blood was a bit yucky to be honest!  But I'm not sure about the needles - can't even watch someone on Casualty being done!  And not good either with a scalpel going in.  And yet I was fine helping Dad out as a child/teenager.Confused
Report flushgordon1 May 18, 2013 11:34 AM BST
shirley penicillin is long acting intramuscular ,you wont be looking for a vein?
Report Lairy Mary May 18, 2013 12:10 PM BST
Oh I know its intramuscular - can't do that either and I would never consider doing anything IV - I'd leave that to the vet - too paranoid about getting an air-bubble in and finishing the horse off for good!
Report proxygene July 8, 2013 6:16 PM BST
Ok you can probably guess the next request....Ba$7ard horse flies.

Deet and citronella tried, do any of you leave mares shut inside during the day if so for what hours.

All charging around like idiots, getting wound up, one (mare not fly)took a chunk out of Mrs P in a strop,(mare in a strop not Mrs P, well not before the bite anyway)

Report Johnny_Mustang July 9, 2013 1:08 PM BST
Report WinningColors July 9, 2013 4:46 PM BST
OK, no guarantees and at your own risk but, being a cattle breeder as well, we use Spot On, which you squirt down their backs or, better, put on a rag and wipe over the horse. It isn't licensed for horses but I've used it for years, on barren and in foal mares (mares tend to be 4 months plus in foal when I first use it) Nd it works really well.
Report Johnny_Mustang July 9, 2013 7:33 PM BST
"It isn't licensed for horses but I've used it for years"

You're a regular Al Zarooni aren't you WC........
Report potentialmillionaire July 9, 2013 10:18 PM BST
I think you can forget getting them in Proxy, I was feeding my foals at 9.00 the other night an the little blighters were still humming around. You'd need to have them in for about 18 hours a day.

I don't know if my lot are immune due to years of ill treatment but they just seem resigned to them now.

La Proxy seems irresistible, I think I'd heard that somewhere before . . . Devil
Report WinningColors July 10, 2013 7:33 AM BST
@johnny_mustang are you being deliberately rude or  is it just your default setting?

Question was asked and answer given - with appropriate warnings so OP could then make their  own minds up as to risk factors.  The reason I risked using it in the first place was on my son's pony, which used to get appalling sweet itch, no matter what we did or what anti fly rug we used. In desperation, we tried the Spot on and it worked like fecking magic ! Made her last years totally comfortable and happy. So we tried it on barren mares with no problems and then foals and in foalers, again with no problems. But that's just here and, as I said, no guarantees. It's expensive stuff, as we get in the large size because we're dosing up batches of cattle so if you do want to use it and are friendly with neighbouring farm with cattle if you don't have them yourselves, it's worth asking if they use it and if you can try a couple of shots.
Report proxygene July 19, 2013 4:28 PM BST
Thank you for all that help now the (re)current latest question.

Would anyone hazard a guess at what proportion of lets say 'sparky' mares become more tractable for pregnancy compared to less so.

Of these how many relapse or get worse for having a foal at foot?

There was me thinking this ambition would unravel for reasons of finance rather than family suffrance.
Report proxygene August 2, 2013 8:01 AM BST
Well, middle proxlet and Mrs P are back from a 16 day holiday (including 5 in the HDU) at hospital, courtesy of the above mare.

Leading pony in past her and although the kick wasn't aimed at daughter specifically, one transected pancreas and other injuries later, domestic life is more complicated than it was before.

Still at least she got home for 4 hours of her eleventh birthday.
Report WinningColors August 2, 2013 10:15 AM BST
Blimey, pg, sorry to hear about the nightmare accident! Hope your daughter's convalescence continues well.

As to the question about being in foal and temperament - well, it can 'settle' a mare and, if equine in question was a filly out-of-training, then it can and will change the animal's temperament, as you're obviously combining it with a complete change in routine, lower protein diet, less exercise etc etc. If, however, that is her basic nature around other equines, then I don't think that will change and may even get worse, especially post-foaling, when her hormones for a few days are in overdrive.

But the big factor is your children, no? Personally, we would never keep a dodgy tempered animal, no matter what precautions we took. I need to know my animals have decent temperaments and know when we are in their space, that their priority is not to injure us and to mind our space. That goes for bulls, cows/heifers, calves, dogs, mares - whatever. OK, so these days the kids are teenager and much older but grandparent hood  beckons and when small babies and toddlers appear, I need to know that  there's nothing about that I have suspicions about, admittedly, animals being unpredictable, even the best tempered ones can behave badly out of character and so never expose young children to risk but even older kids need to be confident the animals you ask them to deal with are sound, so a mare like pg's that will lash out at another when there are humans about just wouldn't be tolerated by me. No need for it.
Report potentialmillionaire August 5, 2013 8:07 PM BST
Proxy, what a game.

We all get injured in this game over the years but it's very important we learn from it!!

You stand some chance that said mare might make some improvement at various stages of pregnancy/nursing/age.

However just remember that that has the double edged sword that you might let your guard down at said times and leopards might apply a little highlighter at times but the spots don't really change.

Mares like that are tiresome and I speak as someone who has had one ( she was out of a Law Society mare so that's where I laid the blame) so be aware of what you are letting yourself in for.

Still no chance of trading her for a different model with less hassle?
Report Posh Paddy August 6, 2013 1:28 PM BST
What a shocker PG, hope the little one is on the mend.
Report proxygene September 23, 2013 12:47 PM BST
Injured dau is coping with senior school, and is not unhappy at being signed off physical activities. Mind you still has a 6" mass in her abdo that the consultant is trying to avoid intervening with.

In the meantime will be hoping for better news when our filly goes for sale on Weds. (not that the work put into her has been ours)

Report truehoncho September 23, 2013 2:09 PM BST
Well done Proxygene, she looks smashing. I hope she goes really well for you.
Report potentialmillionaire September 23, 2013 9:33 PM BST
She looks fit and sharp Proxy. Prima Donna would be proud of you. The very best of luck on Wednesday I shall keep my fingers crossed for a pension pot injection!
Report potentialmillionaire September 25, 2013 10:22 PM BST
Any joy Proxy?
Report proxygene September 26, 2013 7:00 PM BST
Joy might be overstating it, she's off the payroll (for 50% of the input), but is I suspect to be trained in England and she should be a bargain for the racing club involved.

We live to fight again (just) but I haven't checked if we have any (just the one)in utero stock for next year yet.

An earlier cover and something happening somewhere on the page might make all the difference.....
Report truehoncho September 26, 2013 8:17 PM BST
Well you have it out there running for you and her mare now Proxygene, the very best of luck.

Actually one I sold as a foal went through on Tuesday and was sold to a Eoghan J O'Neill. Anyone know where he might turn up?
Report potentialmillionaire September 26, 2013 9:49 PM BST
Well proxy we all know how tricky it usually is with a filly so hopefully you are philosophical.

I would imagine that as you are in the business of testing breeding patterns and designing a mating very much for the racecourse it perhaps leaves you a little more exposed than some when it comes to a female entering the commercial minefield.

As truehoncho says though, she's in the system and the rewards for the mare when your carefully planned mating comes good will I'm sure be substantial !

Is Eoghan O'neill still in France?
Report proxygene October 21, 2013 6:16 PM BST
Is there an HMRC accepted keep rate for mares that passes onto the book value of any foal once born? Paying someone else to was at least quantifiable, but now shes in my care instead.
Report potentialmillionaire October 21, 2013 9:00 PM BST
Proxy, don't beat yourself up about it, just work out a rough figure for what your mare and her foal cost you to keep for 12 months and increase the value of your foal accordingly.

Be honest and consistent as that's what HMRC likes  and that leaves you to sleep easy at night!
Report proxygene October 21, 2013 9:21 PM BST
Expenditure is easy enough but how do man hours relate to it?
Report potentialmillionaire October 21, 2013 9:56 PM BST
I think it's actual costs only proxy not your time!
Report proxygene November 3, 2013 5:51 PM GMT
Next one,

I seem to have mislaid my Bloodstock Review of 2011 so does anyone know an online source of book sizes for sires in 2011. Ta.
Report proxygene November 3, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
No worries RP have emailed me it; on a Sunday too.
Report proxygene January 14, 2014 6:14 PM GMT
When is the right time to sow rice in whats left of my paddock?
Report potentialmillionaire January 14, 2014 10:04 PM GMT
Have you ever seen the price of specialist Water Lillies proxy?

I am going down the rare aquatic and marginals avenue.

More profit than a bag of rice I hope. . .
Report proxygene January 15, 2014 9:41 AM GMT
perhaps the BBC might want a site to re-enact something from WW1, I think water lillies would sullied too rapidly.
Report proxygene April 23, 2014 1:02 PM BST
When foals kick out, is it invariably at testicle height no matter how small the target originally was?
Report potentialmillionaire April 23, 2014 9:23 PM BST
For heavens sake proxy, you seem to have not even picked up the manual let alone read it.

It's The Law.
A kick in the nethers is all little bleeders have on their agenda, always!

It is a matter of some distress to me mind that they only get the one thus leaving us with no great improvement on the originals, just a kind of lopsided purgatory.
I trust you shall recover in due course, but, is it out of the mare with a similar history?
Report proxygene April 24, 2014 12:14 AM BST
Will fashion the manual into a cricketers box in future.

10 days down the line I can laugh and cough about it especially since I have just one adams apple again.

No it was not an inherited skill, or an observational one, unless he's seen Mrs P after opening the bills. He went off to stud the following morning with Mum, when I suspect I may have been more inept than usual while trying to load him.
Report Somerset Sam May 15, 2014 5:16 PM BST
Just out of interest, where did the filly pictured end up?
Report proxygene May 16, 2014 3:05 PM BST
John Murphy, Cork, I was told at the time.

Her half brother was sold out of Richard Hannons to race for Doug O'Neill in Santa Anita.
Report ovalu May 20, 2014 9:38 AM BST
Looking for a bit of advice here, a yearling ( my only one) I hoped to enter in the autumn sales has a small curb below one of her hocks, she's not lame on it, is there any treatment e.g blistering,  that  can work at this stage or do I just accept it and hope that she will be accepted for the sales as she is, she was a very cheap pin hook but her sire is doing well so I was hoping just for a small profit/  break even. Any advice appreciated
Report Lairy Mary May 20, 2014 10:59 AM BST
I'd probably start with some DMSO and if you can get hold of Furazine (we used in the US as a "sweat treatment" for lots of swellings - apply and then wrap in cling film & bandage - works pretty well) or you could try something like cortisone injections?

Or you could try something like a magnetic wrap - I use these on fetlock injuries such as sesamoid flare-ups and they can work well.
Report ovalu May 20, 2014 11:28 AM BST
Thank you very much Lairy Mary
Report Lairy Mary May 20, 2014 12:02 PM BST
You could also try ultrasound or laser (just dug out my bible on lamenesses!!)
Report yer ma May 20, 2014 6:36 PM BST
Dont be too down Ovalu - they usually reduce a bit on own and I can guarantee you will see it much more clearly than 90% of the buyers.  We've tried alternating ice pack  / heat (microwaved grain bags are ideal), ultrasound (you need the right wave length machine or you'll be going too deep) and dmso or latterly stuff called Ekyflogyl which you're vet can get, just rub it on.  Don't expect too much change quickly. GL
Report ovalu May 20, 2014 9:57 PM BST
Thanks yer ma, I think it has come down a bit alright so hopefully it will continue, but as you say I can only see a curb at the moment with a yearling attached to it
Report potentialmillionaire May 20, 2014 10:15 PM BST
Congrats ovalu, that witty retort made me chuckle muchly. We've all been there!

I am sure you have been given good advice so I can only add that I wouldn't be too worried about the sales companies as if they notice it you can pass it off as a recent bump or some such, if she is a nice enough horse they will take her aslong as she is nominated to the correct grade sale. It's a long time until sales prep and if she doesn't have particularly prone looking hocks then hopefully you will see plenty of improvement.
Report proxygene September 27, 2016 1:38 PM BST
Storm Bird excepted, has anyone experience of tails being cut while out in paddock, poss at night by persons unknown?
Report proxygene October 25, 2016 4:55 PM BST
Was just on the verge of 'launching' a first ever syndicate/partnership for unsold filly and lo and behold there are new simplified BHA rules to understand PDQ. Any tips SS?
Report Formtwist October 25, 2016 5:36 PM BST
As you are offering this somewhat publicly, you will want to manage the relationship with the trainer and you want everyone involved to have a share in the filly then go the syndicate route. If you do the new style partnership all individuals will have to be registered owners, which is a hassle.
Report proxygene October 25, 2016 6:43 PM BST
Yes I was hoping to allow 20 or less members the option of buying in or just leasing but I'm not sure this was ever an allowed model of partnership.
Report Formtwist October 25, 2016 6:55 PM BST
The "old" partnership was exactly that, up to 20 partners with two registered and nominated ones, who could do between themselves what they wanted. A breeder could, and I often did, lease a filly to such a partnership to get the racing costs out of the breeding accounts and have the option to breed from her if she were successful. I see no reason why a breeder couldn't lease to a syndicate under the new regime and if that breeder parted, separately, with some equity to others then you achieve your aim I think?
Report proxygene October 25, 2016 8:38 PM BST
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