Coolmore fees

Excelebration in at 22.5k

Henry stands at 30k

Power 12.5k

So You Think 17.5k

Requinto still TBA

Requinto. 5k Good Colonel

You have to be impressed with coolmore. Excellent timing. They have read the market just right here. Danehill Dancer looks very good value versus some of the fees in england (OD, Dansili etc). Excelebration pitched at about the right level. Solid older stallion P Celebre dropped to a more enticing level (if you fancy actually breeding a racehorse). A nice cheapy in Alfred Nobel. All in all I think they will do decent business versus the rubbish inflated fees the rest of the market so far has thrown up.

Excellent Art gone?

And let's face it Proxy, if there aren't one or two more headed the same way from Feathard before Feb 1st then my name's not Prima Donna.
I can only imagine that if he does stick around it will be purely as a Grange resident.

Strategic Prince gone too?

Maybe Boba's seen something I havent buy Christy's email to me didnt make me run to the phone.  HTN I 'petitioned' for a move back and have been rewarded with substantial fee hike, Excelebration is ok, Power will make some a few bob but do I really want to be one of 150 paying 10k sterling. Their totally gone commercial stallions in DoM, Dylan T, High Chap, Footsteps, are almost irrelevant if you're desire is to make money.  HRE I nearly went with at 10k euro last year but apparently now he's worth double.  DD at 40k reflects the fact his yearlings have NOT been flying of the shelves (other than a few strategically bought biggies by the lads) so its a good move to get a bit of buzz back.   SYT at 17500 says one year shuttling to save a bit of face then permanently in Oz.

and how about F Rock?
still about 40 K the fee?


They have read the market just right here.

i agree but they less winners actually than some UK stallions....

D dancer is at the good price

Does Cheap yearling with no 2yo stakes form (and my word is this a late maturing family!) not pull him a little closer to 1st season and very good looking Canford Cliffs than 5k?

I would have thought 20 was plenty.

Anyone think a cheap Choisir is worth a go on his repatriation? He can still attract a bid or two at the sales and get a good runner.

Trying to find an affordable stallion that one actually wants to use is going to be challenging. . .

Power if he looks good is where the angle is. But that is a big if and he won't be covering only 150 mares unless that's all his fertility/libido allows

Choisir and Footstepsinthesand decent value at 10k

Pot'M, I would have thought that Choisir could be worth a try at 8k to you. As you say he can get a decent enough sales horse and I would be happy to have bred Olympic Glory! However if you are looking at value proven sires that can get a good sales type and good runner, is there not a chestnut son of DD a little closer to your home than Choisir? He must represent better value as he stands for 3k sterling less and has two big (and better quality)crops to run in this hemisphere. Whilst the marketing and spin may not be on the Coolmore level there is little to choose between the horses themselves. But in looking for value, marketing and spin should be overlooked by a commercial eye. He may also be one that gets that elusive 'get out' filly having already produced group winning fillies, even at the highest level.

my problem with Choisir is that for 5k {and maybe less with a little negotiation) you can get Mon Bond who will benifit from his 120 mares he got last year. By the time you come to sell your foal or yearling his profile could be very good.

truehoncho,That's exactly my point,we are talking about the same stallion!

Bit of a crossed post between you two guys there methinks!

Can I just say Prima that at a certain point this spring the destination to which you refer seemed a mighty long way away indeed . Thank god I only needed to check it out the once!

sorry PD, i didn't read your post properly. I will get back to the s**t shoveling

I'm not too sure what you mean there Pot M,did you send MB one?

Sorry Christ now I'm not reading them correctly,the answer is yes and bingo first time!.......I think.

You needed to re read yourpost which then gave you the answer to mine I guess !

Incidentally whilst I have your in your Friday night aperitif mode. . . Did you see 'my' yearling go through this year at Tatts? Something to keep the dream alive I reckon!

Yes it was noticed......110k profit,oooh I bet that hurtEase the pain mind when he wins the Railway stakes next year.lets hope he's still not like Hitler in the Albert hall!

Didn't hurt a bit. Just delighted that people thought the same as me about the horse. If it had happened when I first started I might have struggled, but I'm old enough and ugly enough to know it's swings and roundabouts in this game and I think I might still be ahead!

Can't wait to make enquiries about the potential Albert Hall exhibit and whether it progressed!

I really am old enough but I like to think I'm not yet ugly,I'm certain the mirror never lies!But like you I'm still struggling!it's great when one of yours goes on and sells well,they may be keen to make the return trip and always you have a great uplift for the mares sale return.
If you do get any future views with his progress let us know.

I'll revive the Gonad Gazette when I find out!

Do that I'll be interested to hear the latest,talking about past sales did you notice the poor result(unsold) we had recently with a colt by a sire that you know I don't personally think is as good as lots seem to think.

Established sire/fab young mare?

Yes that's the one.

I'm obviously not well qualified to comment too much on that type of horse as I don't have too much of a clue as to what Joe Buyer will or will not wear with that type of pedigree.

I only know that at my level everything has to be pitch perfect if I'm to get off to a flyer.

Funnily enough I did have the computer on when that colt went through and I think I convinced myself that he wasn't the best in front - like you get a great view on a laptop .

You presumably were disappointed though?

Yes we were a little disappointed,he was a fairly typical first foal on the small side,but that mare has another colt this year who is by Dubawi and a better sort so hopefully it can get better.As I've said on here in the end it all comes down to what's in front of you a great page but a rat=poor sale result,and a lesser page even a poor one but a great sort= good sale return in the end they all need to be 'pitch perfect' to get the return we all dream of.Still I'm happy enough with the yearling sales this year.

If that is the case PD (and I am certainly not contesting it) then when buying mares is it confirmation first or breeding? and when selecting a stallion why are we so keen on 1st seasoners rather than those proven to throw nice types?

Well Prima, if he didn't miss by much then I would think he is eminently suited to giving you the last laugh, around Royal Lodge time say! Only don't beat me will you
Incidentally whilst only keeping half an eye on cheltenham this afternoon I was flicking around on this machine and on one website I saw there was some evidence that you might be back racing over here, to the tune of 25% perhaps?
A professional set up, but I am not sure you will enjoy dealing with one of the main protaganists
Good trainer mind

truehonch I've run out of time but I'll be back. . .

truehoncho, the topic of mare and stallion selection never goes out of style does it! I for one am grateful as one day I hope to learn how to get it right.

I think your question about stallion selection is easiest as it's the 1st seasoners that can sell so well and even the proven stallions with a good looking record can let you down. Couple that with the potential for a perfectly decent stallion to drop out of fashion between the mating and the sale and you have a ton of reason why the game will never be straightforward.

Pedigree v conformation in a potential broodmare. Mmmm.

Unless you strike oil in your paddocks anytime soon you'll always be juggling those two.

I have got an unraced 3yo filly floating around at the moment that I am wrestling with. (you see, look how I've managed to make it all about me, again. . .) She would have just enough pedigree to go with but in all honesty she is pretty ordinary at best. A curby old hock one end and a pretty horrendous off fore the other. Small too.
Plusses, She has more depth than the rest of the family, she is from a good broodmare sireline and she moves in the paddock like a better horse and has a nice head.

Given that she is the last foal of an old mare I cling to the possibility of a good genetic draw and a tiptop uterous. Anyway, my options are 1 Put her down or 2 breed from her. Now not in a million years would I ever buy such a shambles but - and here the context of this rant becomes a bit clearer - I am leaning towards giving her a shot and setting up an 'interesting' experiment with conformation that is troubling and pedigree that is not.

I would normally favour the opposite approach.

All out there, am I mad?

Just so I've got this straight you've got a small unraced filly with a mediocre pedigree and dodgy confirmation that you wouldn't buy in a million years and you're thinking of putting her in foal as an "experiment".

PotM, there was me thinking you were a hard nosed practical businessman.

To answer your question, IMO yes you are mad (in the nicest possible way of course). Option 1.

PP, don't hold back now, tell it like it is

I'm perhaps not the hardest nose on here (might be the biggest though!) The filly in question owes me a few quid so that colours for sure and I do really think that as a last slightly pathetic foal there is always a hope that nurture is to blame partly for an unpreposessing outcome. Incidentally it was the case with her mother too, but she sucessfully threw to the stallion each and every time and was a modest commercial and winner breeding success.

I suppose it is not a path I should pursue. However it is hard to walk away when you know that the ridiculous can happen and it is not a position I am ever likely to investigate under any other circumstance.

Whilst I am on a waffle, I just love Lot 59 Dec yearlings! That's not a page you would have started with!!! I wonder if they can keep the momentum up.

PotM, the decision you ave with the filly will come down to how much you think the dam passes her confirmation on or whether you think using a stallion that stamps his stock can overcome it. If you think that there are stallions that can acheive this then there are a lot more buying opertunities available to you. When I spoke to a well known stud keeper about this point this comment was "they are buying the foal not the mare". At the time he was showing me a mare with fused vertebrae that couldn't canter let alone race and had bred high class stock that sold well and he felt that the mares confirmation is not critical.

It was PD's point about good sort = good sale that got me thinking. If I use a 7k stallion that may be "hot" (as hot as a 7k stallion can be) and I get an average one, will it make more than a nice one from a cheaper "cooler" stallion, lets say Bated Breath v's Stimulation?

7k stallions can be hot. Bushranger rammed home that message again this year. Last year you were only talking about the 10k stud fee Acclamation being one of the hottest sires in my memory.

My last year sales experience was exactly as I always think it will be. Nice horses with sires not on fire outselling lesser beasts by hot sires. I chase fashion like everyone else but it's such a fickle thing so I always aim to use a horse that will suit my mare first and foremost. Lady luck might then get involved but if she doesn't then I hope to have a nice future racehorse anyway.

I am sure there must be a fabulous algebraic equation as to potential return v stud fee v rating of the individual.
One thing is for sure, the top of Bated Breath should beat the top of Stimulation. Ofcourse they will certainly be occupying exactly the same position at the bottom though, giving you a larger disaster zone for Bated Breath.

Where the crossover occurs is anyones guess!

I liked your vertebraic mare anecdote. That just emphasises the point doesn't it. Which old wrecks might rise above their humble physique and which don't.

Any answers out there?!

I have been following these posts with interest but I have limited time to reply so I will just jot down a few thoughts.
Basically conformation wins over pedigree every time as it is the individual physical specimen that runs down the track, not the catalogue page. IME I would say a 'very nice' Stimulation will out-sell a 'moderate' Bated Breath every time. Pot M' I am afraid I would have to agree with Posh Paddy re your 3yo. Though I would try and find her a home rather than shoot her. But out of the system would perhaps be best. As for the mare in Truhoncho's post with spinal problem,the entire point would be whether the problem was acquired or whether it was present from birth. Pot M I see you still have your detective mac on, you could be right... Have a good evening all, personally I'm having a tedious one!

Prima, I havn't been sleuthing I was just browsing through a website, spotted that and wondered if 2+2 Made 4!

I hope your tedium isn't linked to 'entertaining the great and the good' just prior to Goffs!

My sister has 3 children. One is a sort of hybrid between both families. One is a tough charming solid type rather reminicent of our family and one is a leggy beauty reminicent of her paternal grandmother including a slight tendency to unsoundness.

Who the hell dictates who gets what!

I noticed Yeat's fee has dropped to 6k from 10k and he has been pushed into the national hunt category. Has his foals disappointed in presence or were they just not selling well. I was lead to believe they were good lookers.

I think baN that it is just a reflection of any sires ability to keep momentum going in year 4. It is obviously a very tricky time for a stallion and in Yeats case it is perceived that he will have next to no chance of making a serious impact with his 2yos. Very much wait and see time for him right now.
It seems eminently sensible for Coolmore to go for a full year of income for him from the NH fraternity now. There'll be plenty of time to change back if he turns into Montjeu II after all!

Ita only a personal opinion but I think this fella might make it. I know I'm in a minority and I certainly don't have the money to back my hunch but I just think he might.

havent finished.............

I think it's daft that he has been put into the NH division before he has had any runners.

Add me to that minority, and the same reasons for not risking it.

I hope I didn't come over as anti Yeats. I too wouldn't be the most surprised if Yeats made it. His Montjeu similarities are there for all to see.

But I do think that acknowledging that NH is a real possibility also is pragmatic and means he swaps that way a little earlier than if they had kept chipping away at a pretty unyielding block which is what year 4 and 5 would always be when you take into account his profile.

Let's get some classy winners on board and welcome him back!