New Sires 2013

J.M. I sense a massive great 'I told you so' coming on when the good Duke of Warrener announces his new horse. But you can't because you haven't! I'm struggling to think what could possibly retire and be impressive really.

You mention Strong Suit yer ma, have I missed something? Plenty of connection between Warren and Redvers over the years. . .

I'm not anti Cheveley. They do a fair ammount of publicity, buy the odd one and their horses seem to find a market unless they are true horrors. my only moan is that they are always a bob or two over zealous with their fees.

Carlton House?

Oh Lordy

I see CASPAR NETSCHER is going Morristown Lattin for €7,500. We're still in a recession, he's a G2 performer - my take is that is too much.

Can't believe the fee for Caspar, quite ridiculous, and don't even get me started on Sixties Icon's fee hike.

Thought it would be interesting to see the RP ratings for all horses worldwide from 5-6 furlongs this year. I know its a very basic exercise, but it does drive home how poor European sprinters are these days.

I have typed 2013 stallion prospects in capitals for interest;


130 — Black Caviar 6 m Bel Esprit AUS
129 — Hay List 7 g Statue Of Liberty AUS
125 — FOXWEDGE 4 c Fastnet Rock AUS
124 — Atlantic Jewel 4 f Fastnet Rock AUS
124 — Little Bridge 6 g Faltaat HK   
123 — Rain Affair 5 g Commands AUS
122 — Pierro 3 c Lonhro AUS 
122 - SOCIETY ROCK 5 h Rock Of Gibraltar GB   
121 — Atomic Force 7 g Danehill Dancer AUS 
121 - BATED BREATH 5 h Dansili GB 
121 — Eagle Regiment 5 g El Moxie HK 
121 — Lord Kanaloa 4 c King Kamehameha JPN 
121 - MAYSON 4 c Invincible Spirit GB   
121 - Ortensia 7 m Testa Rossa AUS
121 — Pinwheel 7 g Lonhro AUS 
121 - SEPOY 4 c Elusive Quality GB 
120 — Buffering 5 g Mossman AUS
120 — Fiddlers Patriot 6 g Proud Citizen USA 
120 - Gordon Lord Byron 4 g Byron
120 — Joy And Fun 9 g Cullen HK
120 - Let Me Fight 5 g Hawk Wing HK   
120 — Moonlight Cloud 4 f Invincible Spirit FR

I think the list proves how poor sprinters are period.

Though there seems very little to offer from elswhere in terms of stallions either.

Rio de la Plata.

I'm really pleased that this fellow has got a berth at Logis. He is too quirky to stand a chance over here as our narrow commercial parameters preclude him from floating enough boats.
But tough and talented over a long period of time with an interesting pedigree background it will be fascinating to see how he gets on. A long shot, sure, but if it came off we'd all have something to think about!

Does anyone know how much the Whitsbury sires are going to be for next year esp'Foxwedge?Poor old Rio,any real appeal now long gone,along with the vanished Delagator.

I'm hopeful that the quirky Frenchies will give Rio a go so we can see Prima. I shalln't be going myself!

Isn't it nice of the French to be a rare breed gene repository though

Requinto was the sprint stallion they couldnt tell us about a few weeks back.  It didnt need a drum roll.  Nice page but cant see why they (the world) need another moderate performing Dansili son.  Could hardly sell a Strategic Prince this year.  Sound of barrels being scraped in Tipperary.

has there been a recent competition launched on most boring new stallion announcement? Casamento, Requinto.....

Think the above will struggle in what looks to be the most competitive generation of new recruits for years. Particularly in the speed division; Excelebration, Sepoy, Foxwedge, Bated Breath etc.

Requinto looks like he'll be a league below the others fee wise though doesn't he? Perhaps that will give him a niche.

(continuing from my last post) Move over, we have a winner....... Dragon Pulse!

An average miler ex of a Croco Rouge mare. Amazed that INS are dealing with this sort of horse. Think Famous Name is an admirable type of racehorse, but I wouldnt have guessed DP if I'd had a thousand guesses.

Wily......I'll see your Dragon Pulse and raise you a Steele Tango (new to Lodge Farm for 2013)!

Wow, Steele Tango. I can only assume he will be dual purpose:

1 As a teaser
2 To keep the goat company.

Good God - An announced stud fee. Where will it all end

So Harbour Watch at £7500. Presumably the 500 can be removed but wot do we think.

Highclere backed down from getting new horse for next year and with Motivator en Francais they're down to one for 2013.

Sayif (yes, Sayif - look him up, what do you mean you've never heard of him?) to LLety for 3K.

Tell me if i'm wrong, but following this thread, and it seems the industry is sending very moderate animals to stud this year, which could have a poor legacy in 5/6 years time is this a fair comment or have i got it totally wrong?

*moderate animals in the context of not what you would expect the standard to be

Sayif's actually not got as bad a record as some of the suspects on this thread but qhy have a 'son of' a stallion that is 4k himself.  Nonsense if you ask me.

I feel I may be forced to get involved with DR if that money is right PotM.  He looked a serious horse, although clearly the cloakndagger about his injury is a concern.

CunningP - the issue this year appears that at the lower end the entrants appear sub-standard but several good/great ones going to stud.

How can computers be so great , when I have just spent 1/2 an hour typing some true pearls only for the f'ing thing to shut down just as I was about to press the button. I'll never get that part of my life back will I?

I feel I may be forced to get involved with DR - How that rang true yer ma! Fact is, we don't get many of his type standing over here and he would need to be 5k euros or less in Ireland for us if we were to ship over there at an equivalent.
I worry about the sire - plenty of potential to p1ss people off in the coming seasons.
Ditto the Not Sold as a yearling
Ditto the unsoundness.

D R is a plus point though. I have bred 2 stakes winners and a stakes placed using his sires and have never had any problems with him. Qatar is a major new force and I have no doubt that the end of this month will see some serious support for the Makfi foals at Tatts too.

Sayif was bred by friends of mine and he was a serious looking horse - 200k yrlg if memory serves, so not to be dismissed out of hand perhaps.

I am currently on a Sepoy kick. Would you trust him to knit with a stouter sort of mare or is he  just sprint sprint sprint. What does any one think of him?

Just read the R.P. bit about Sayif. He was NOT bred by Crimbourne Stud. RP incompetence strikes again.

Stimulations first produce's venture to the sales will be a telling point with regard to thoughts on using Sayif next spring for sure.

Harbour Watch at that price ask yourselves this,if you get a filly and we all have that risk esp' with mares in this stallions range would you be certain to get any return?With all your costs I reckon you'd need 13/14k to get out alone,let alone a healthy profit.I'm not so sure you would,how many filly foals make that sort of money in that sire's price range with mares at his level.

Sayif..........no thanks!

i think I would prefer Bated Breath to Sayif. I think that Showcasing may be a really good gamble for a third season sire. He should be gettable at 3k.

Agree with the gist of "Yer Ma" a couple of posts ago; why go to a 3k stallion by a 5k stallion (sayif)? when you can go to a 4k stallion by an 85k stallion (Showcasing)? or a 10k stallion by a 75k stallion (Poet's Voice)?

simple....but valid i think.

Does Sayif read so very differently from Hellvelyn, whom we are all watching with interest?

I think if there is an appetite for Stimulation (same stud) and an appetite for Hellvelyn, at the upcoming foal sales, then Sayif inches a little closer to consideration perhaps.

Obviously his fee would need to move as there is competition as Wily suggests. However this is the 1st season game we are talking about and by its very nature there is only ever a limited ammount of competition!

Prima, I take your point about a Harbour Watch Filly - and believe me I am going to try and avoid using him, but is there any scenario that confirms your calculations as ever avoidable?

how does Foxwedge at £7.5k interest you PotM? Showcasing at 4.5k has put me off phoning.

PD - I cant really argue your point about filly returns but I'm struggling to see why HW would be any different to any other sire in this bracket.  I've a mare produced a lovely acclamation colt, I dont want to spend 35k so say I pick the 'safest' bet in Dark Angel - his fillies have NEVER produced a fillies median sale price above your 14k.   Name some names.

truehoncho, I would imagine there must be movement aplenty in Showcasing's fee - unless ofcourse there are about to be 20 odd beauties skipping around Park Paddocks shortly, which somehow I doubt.
Any horse standing under 10k interests me!
It is hard to place the 3 times raced crock against a proven Gp1 horse who raced often and consistently but I suppose that is what we get to do as at least we are starting with the same fee. My F.R. reservations are pitted agaist plenty of Harbour Watch ones. My guess is that Foxwedge could do a Really commercial looker.
I think if you are happy with Fastnet and a reverse shuttler and a slightly 'workmanlike' pedigree then there is room for a punt with Foxy.

I just read that Showcasing got more mares in his second season than his first which may explain the price.

Oops pressed reply a bit quick!!

was going to say that having 230+ foals in 2 seasons must give him a chance.

Spoke to an Auzzie friend of mine the other day who thought Foxwedge should be 10k-12k +, so guess he could be considered an interesting punt.

looks like there will be plenty of competition at that "commercial" 7-10 level which is a nice change.

I was tickled by the fee asessment for Foxwedge from your Aussie chum. Is he particularly well qualified to be followed when it comes to evaluating the fee structures of our stallion industry up here?
I know I am not remotely qualified when it comes to the prices they chose to levy in the Antipodes

Bye the Bye. My Juddmonte invitation for Dec Sales viewing appeared yesterday and there appeared to be a lack of Observatory and Three Valleys on their roster.

But why oh why was there an ad for Dylan Thomas in yesterdays EBN? Surely he is off on his travels?

Was just trying to start a first draft of matings for my mares and wondered if anyone has kept a list of all the new 2013 sires going to stud and their newly released fees?

There are some that spark my interest...(BBreath, Power, Foxwdege)

And there are some that dont float my boat...(Dragon Pulse, Sir Pracelott, Elzaam)

But if anyone has a fairly complete list for GB and IRE it would be a big help! Thanks

Not a complete list Wily, but I think most of the new ones are here:


Sepoy    £15,000
Helmet    € 10,000
Casamento    € 5,000
Bated Breath    £8,000
Frankel    £125,000
Harbour Watch    £7,500
Mayson    £8,000
Excelebration    € 22,500
Power    € 12,500
Requinto    € 5,000
Caspar Netscher    € 7,500
Nathaniel    £20,000
Foxwedge    £7,500
Dragon Pulse    € 6,000
Famous Name    € 4,000
Born To Sea    € 10,000
There's also the likes of Debussy, Sayif, Delegator, Elzaam and probably a few others

Thanks JohnnyM, that's a help. Is it me, or does Excelebration seem really good value at that? especially since they've put Exceed and Excel up in price.

Just had a look at the Foxwedge video clip. Looks interesting.

Been a looking today in Newmarket.

Anyone seen any of them too?

yeap seen a few in newmarket

mayson -liked him alot
harbour watch - leggy and all over the place.very poor conformation not a great example .
nathanial- light condition ,nice horse ,taller than u would think
frankel - super star -looks the business ,again like nathanial taller than you think
b breath -again bad walker and poor conformation -disappointing

Well sammy, we are quite close I think!

Mayson, my fave but oh so dodgy off fore.
Harbour Watch, Not preposessing very typical Acclamation no walk but not horrendous conformation just a bit ord.
Nathaniel. Correct, really walks, loads of quality, slightly plain head and obviously no place to go with a backward mare.
Frankel, off games so not seen. Not an isolated case I gather!
Bated Breath. Distant View knees but not dreadful. Looked a bit like the late maturer he is. Possiblity to get a nice foal I think but certainly not nailed on to do so.

Any more for any more?

PM, can you elaborate Distant View knees please, you may or may not guess why, ta

proxy, this is perhaps Mr and Mrs Donna territory really as they have seen more horses than me over the years.

I think it is perhaps more correct to term tham Irish River knees, well Seven Springs certainly. She was an horrendously offset creature and Distant View was bad and got plenty in the same mould. A horse with knees that are set on with the joint plates off the horizontal I suppose is the best way of describing it to the layman - which I am sure you are not - Often the limb will then deviate along the same line and you will have knock knees and a non verticle cannon/shin below. Often the knees just seem to be crooked in isolation and the forward movement appears nice and clean. I would say that Bated Breath gets quite close to acceptably offset in my opinion, but it is another nail in his coffin for me perhaps.

So where does all this leave us with the firstseasoners for next year? Will anybody be getting involved at all?

Has anybody had the chance to see Delegator or Foxwedge yet?

Thanks for all the comments on the sires which I always find very informative
Foxwedge still on Oz but will parade at the Feb sale. Already jumped and booked him for my mare as he seems by a long way to have the biggest upside relative to price for a blue collar breeder like me.

perry, i think you talk a lot of sense. It is getting more and more likely that Foxwedge is the way forward.

Does his fee move atall?

I dont want to say on public forum but am sure you can guess from 7500 advertised fee

Thanks PM, sounds like legs the opposite different direction to the 'Was there really nothing else that may have held your foal back' out of a distant view mare

Gosh Proxy, that is a bit cryptic! I am not sure quite what you mean by 'opposite direction' other than perhaps you weren't deviating out through the knee, but in.

Forgive me for speaking out of turn, but I think your pedigree theories are probably very well researched. If you are not as confident on 'make and shape' however, you probably should keep it all to a level you can afford to retain and race - or take lots of advice.

The sales are no place for the crooked but well pedigreed. It's a beauty parade out there and you know what a cat fight they are!
Forgive me please if I am speaking out of turn.


But then when do I do anything else. . .

perry, ofcourse I didn't want you to discuss figures on here. I get our drift though

I wonder how he is going.

PotM quotes:

"The sales are no place for the crooked but well pedigreed."

but there is no formula, as far as I can see, to prevent faults so the only thing you can affect is pedigree.

so truehonch, do you give no thought to your mares conformation or the stallions' for that matter?

It makes you sound as if you just trust all of that to luck?

i hoped you would respond PotM.

I do but so often the ones I like are uncommercial. Also, its difficult to get to see all the stallions and you are sometimes relying on a picture or other peoples experience.

It would be really good if this forum could discuss stallions conformation faults more often and in more detail. It would really help me. For instance my Kheleyf foal seemed a bit narrow chested to me, his dam is certainly not. I would like to rule out any stallion which may repeat this. Is it possible to get this type of technical info or is it too much for this forum?

imo we should all be trying to breed racehorses first and hope they are good sales horses in the long run if we breed perfect sale toppers that cannot run the market will swerve us

now I am a bit confused, are well conformed horses not the best race horses? this really isn't a smart arsed comment, I am still not clear on the balance of pedigree and confirmation, particulaly at the value end of the business (my end).

I am not the greatest judge truehoncho. Let's get that out of the way straight away!
I don't have a fabulously retentive mind - I think Prima Donna aces that one - and whilst I think being around long enough has taught me plenty, I know several people who are just 'naturals' which I don't think I ever will be.

If I have a mare with a specific problem - and let's face it this is a position of weakness to start out from - then I will give plenty of thought to try not to repeat the fault with the stallion.
What I really try to do when I am viewing a stallion though is to try and highlight the glaring faults but mainly to assess 'type' and quality. If you turn up at the sales with a truely smart horse then contrary to popular belief, faults will be overlooked.

I don't know which Kheleyf foal was yours truehonch so I don't know who you consigned with. Did no one give you feedback on your 'bit narrow chested'? as I must say that on the face of it, if it was just 'a bit' then I wouldn't expect too many problems.
I would hope really that if my mare wasn't mighty nice then she would throw pretty much comprehensively to the stallion. Tweaking
individual faults perhaps isn't necessarily a reliable recipe for success.

Kheleyf is quite a smart looking horse, he might be a bit narrow, I don't know, but I would think that your mare has in effect pulled him down so perhaps just looking for a stallion that can really stamp over her is the point to start. Please don't take offence there, most mares (and stallions) don't do what we really want of them!

Perfect sales toppers always get a bad rap because they have monster high profiles which simply builds them up for a spectacular fall. Of course a well put together and balanced horse is going to stand most chance of fulfilling both the job in the sale ring and on the track. The paddock before The Derby will have a lot more to admire than the one before a twilight seller on a saturday night at Wolves.

im not trying to be a smart arse either im a very much a novice breeder and like the discussion on here,  I find the sales very much a fashion statement re looks/ which stallions are in vogue, Mark Johnston previous to the arab involvement had good success buying big pages with plenty of faults for smallish money

Hi PM,

It took me 25 years to afford to have a horse in training, it will be an accident if I do so again so will be looking to sell what low grade stock I may produce. You were correct about the badly written last post of mine; 'weak of knee' was a description for him and I was wondering if this had come thru the mare to the offspring I bought in utero so I could be wary of it in the future.

The other mare whose third strike was to have a Bushranger which barely broke even, has now been moved on. Nice enough pedigree but I became obsessed rather than objective about her conformational faults yet still couldn't avoid them. I would love to breed to the positives but at my level I need to avoid the negatives.

It would be great to be able to be full time (a risk I shouldn't take, yet...), and spend as much time as possible compiling a mental database of who throws what, as it must reduce the chances of a poor result. I need to become as good a judge of foals as I can since this is the likely selling point for me,(though its not the age I've been used to in the past). This is why some of us must pick the brains of the likes of yourself, I hate making mistakes, I hate being wrong. I hope I still learn quicker than I forget.

As a nerd stats give me chance to focus on a smaller pool of stallions, that's my starting point as I can spend plenty of time on that stage. I can then hopefully be more thorough with the conformation faults and potential commerciality of them, while feeling there was a logic to it. I suspect it will take 5-10 years to know if that is wrong for me, hopefully the funds wont have run out by then.

I used to pinhook proxy, indeed it's a way a lot of people start isn't it, and I miss it hugely as a means of evaluating a stallion.

I remember so clearly the little Show hacks that were the River Falls'. The functional looking Mujadils that all wound the same limb and the Danehill Dancers that shouldn't have been nice but inexplicably were.

Now I sometimes talk to a trustworthy agent about market opinion but even he will have his little pecadillos that it doesn't always pay to listen to.

I use 1st season horses so I have to be my own judge there and as I always say you can accept plenty if you really believe there is a great looking first crop a probability. But from there I tend towards the thoroughly proven so even I can glean an idea of what to expect. The market will ofcourse tell you so much because sires don't get on a roll and fashion doesn't pick them up unless there is plenty to like about the make and shape of their offspring. If a sire has plenty of potential to get ugly foals then the market will look lopsided for them and they are to be treated with caution.

I would love to breed to the positives but at my level I need to avoid the negatives

That statement is still a little scarey to me. You need so many positives in this game. Aiming to breed a beauty that can buck fashion is a small pot to be pitching at and looking to iron out all the faults can leave you woefully short of style.
Correct and ordinary is never where the money is.

If your mare has done a bad set of knees then you are right to be wary. The majority of soundness issues come from the knees and buyers are wary for sure. Most people trust Compton Place to give the best shot at a good front leg. Great if it works, but you can't go there every year and it does help if you can trust the mare to do the job with a little more regularity!

Don't disagree with any of the above.

As you will have worked out I haven't served the apprenticeship of pinhooking, don't want to be a dealer of mares and would like to see the benefits of long term continuity. I've seen 2 of the mares 4 offspring as foals and a third as a yearling, they were all different. The knee issue might be due to a lateish, overdue yet immature foal, that I needed to sell as a foal; who wasn't pushed but didn't make it anyway.

I didn't want to overlook any inherited element while taking most of the blame myself, (covered on foal heat to compound it). I'd be happy to send her to many stallions but nothing too light long necked or with quirks ie Montjeus need not apply. This is an example of me avoiding the negatives rather than breeding to the positives. Without satisfactory racecourse representation I've still got to go with proven sires of which Compton Place does come on the radar.

Back to thread subject, as regards new sires I've seen none of them but have a view on most of them. In previous years I've liked Bushranger and Hellvelyn (before hearing what anyone else thought) so can't believe I'm swimming against the tide. At some point in the future I may even get to use a first seasoner.

I am fascinated to see what happens this year. It will be interesting to see how thinly mares will be spread and who will miss out on a 'full' book. Will scarcity value then come in to play or will large books still outweigh?

I know he didn't light many candles on here but has anyone seen Caspar Netscher to give me an idea of physique etc, thanks

It's all gone a bit post Dec sales on here hasn't it proxy.

I'd like to add Born to Sea to the 'Anyone seen him?' column.

Seen a few first seasoner's in last few months;

Casper Netscher - correct but a little small, quite liked him for a big mare
Nathaniel - Big, great walk, flat knees (gave me a classy old fashioned feel)
Mayson - Long pasterns, not correct in front (a bit dissapointing)

Would like to see; Born to Sea & Foxwedge - both look the business on their website photos, but never the same as in the flesh

thanks Wily, I can take Mayson off my list.

How do people think Hellvelyns first lot will do?

thanks Wily,

was worrying I had killed the thread

PD or others, have you seen Power yet?  He looks a sizeable sort but someone on the team gave me reason to query. Thanks

yer ma,Power has a lot of quality a goodish walker who stands about 15.3hh,I'd say he's a touch top heavy fee wise but that's for you to decide really.A smashing new sire is Tally-Ho's Sir Pracealot thought he was one of the best moving stallions I've seen,he's sure to be commercial.Born To Sea is another impressive new sire and again nailed on to be commercial,personally I'd rather him than Power.For those who have not seen him yet he's a link have a look at this and lets see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFZLTx-xIY4

Thanks for bringing that video to our attention Prima. I am on a bit of a Born to Sea kick at the moment but I just can't fall in love with him quite yet (unlike Mayson who was a great I.S. commercial stamp bar the front legs). BTS certainly doesn't seem to have that problem from the video. You have seen him have you? Can you elaborate your thoughts?
I am all too aware that we shall lose you to somewhere 'hot' shortly!!

Yes Pot M I have seen him and I liked him he is a good walking colt with real class.He's not perhaps the most early looking sort but he's a sharper sort than STS,he has a deep girth more so than Mayson who maybe wont himself get early 2 y'olds.At their fee's of 10k euro and 8k sterling so for you there nothing in it I know where my money would be going and its good to know BTS's connections have plenty enough set aside to support his stock in the ring along with sending him decent mares,it all helps.
And it's true I will indeed be spending time somewhere hot very shortly,I will be back but not for about 6 weeks at my age there's only so much wet and cold weather I can take.I'm looking forward to it,happy Christmas 'T' along with our best wishes for the new year,T and C.

Hope you get this message before you leave Prima as I shall wish you well too for the festivities which I hope you will all spend round a very traditional Irish fire with your nearest and dearests. I must say that a proper christmas followed by an escape to the sun is one way I shall spend my millions when I am no longer Potential

I am not going near Mayson, too scarey for me but I reckon some people will get away with it. However his front wheels looked dyed in the wool Pivotal to me so I reckon they will come through with some frequency.

I sold a colt recently from the sireline so obviously wouldn't mind repeating the exercise. Even though they couldn't be more different types it would be a good to tap into a ton of pedigree as her 1st efforts without great pedigreed sires was a little uninspiring and she has two uninspiring sires close up as you know!

I must say though eu8k would suit me better.

I may be doing an aboutfas re. BTS I was impressed with the presence and walk.  I'd be hedging my bets by sending a mare not having to get a pure 2yo.  I like Power but getting the right package is everything with Coolmore.  Tally Ho dont want to know re. deals (for us anyhow). We've been floating back to more 'proven' sires given derth of newbies.  Merry Xmas & GL to all.

(waiting for turkey to cook)

Yer Ma, have agreed with your views quite a bit in the past, but "derth of newbies" I dont think so! Cant remember a stronger year for new sires, especially around the 7-10k bracket. England alone is packing a heavy new punch for 2013.

cast your mind back to 2012 newbies....Poets Voice (full), Dick Turpin (no thanks), and fresh air.....!

Here's to more Good to Firm in 2013.
Merry Christmas
Wily

5th MOST POPULAR thread on here (in viewing terms).

Sorry correction

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2nd MOST POPULAR thread on here with 6,557 views.

Went to Darley for their open day and liked the look of Sepoy. Very strong individual, but needless to say he is full, even if I could afford him!

Have heard from a breeder who went to Whitsbury that he was surprised how much quality Foxwedge has. Far better looking than his dad apparently (not hard!)

Any word on Delegator?

Well Wily, were you the chap on thursday with the red carnation and the tartan waistcoat?

I thought as much. Did you recognise me in the Homburg and with the tortoiseshell cigarette holder?

I think I have nailed all the British 1st seasoners now and Helmet from the Irish crowd.

Delegator is a little on the leg and toes in with odd shaped feet. However, and it's a big however, he has plenty of quality and is as good a walker as you will ever see. Great temperament, good head and when he comes towards you you would think he is actually correct, so clean he is through said front limbs.

I will probably gamble him.

Foxwedge. If you like what you know about him but haven't seen him then worry not. Just get on and sign the contract.

I am keen on Sepoy too. Can't believe how deep I am looking to be dragged down by the Aussies!!

Yes, I always wear a red carnation on a Thursday, busted.

My only query with Delegator is why Darley didnt want to stand him themselves? Wondered whether it was due to conformation, as on paper more exciting than Casamanto.

Here what you say on Foxwedge. My contact is unbelievably picky, but he's sending a mare so he must be good looking!

Apparently Sam Bullard says that there isn't the market for a cheap type of stallion in Newmarket. Who knows, but I would have thought that he doesn't quite add up for Dalham Hall and I feel happier with him elsewhwere rather than being their cheapo dealing horse.

Foxwedge is certainly without worry as a specimen.

I see there are only 2 new stallions going to the TBA stallion parade. Seems a little strange, thought it would be more worthwhile taking them than dragging out the likes of Cockney Rebel who we've all seen.

Good initiative though. I'm a firm believer in seeing the stallion before you chose to use/dismiss him.

I think they didn't want Delegator because it would be a constant reminder of how they messed him up.

PotM, saw Delegator for the first time today, your description of him was spot on. I did like him. Not sure about Mayson against the rest of the bunch. Thought Foxwedge looked very well.

Pretty poor Feb catalouge. Glad I didnt buy anything, cant afford to anyway!

Phew Wily! Although it sounds as if I liked Mayson more than you, with the many provisos ofcourse. Foxwedge has just the one fault - Nationality! One fault isn't enough to put me off using him though and I am still of a dither about Delegator.

I didn't go near Tatts yesterday as I am overstocked as it is. It's not a sale that ever seems to work for me, though I don't discount selling there ever.

was at tatts yesterday

all stallions turned out well

mayson hasnt really got any better looking since i seen him in dec.front feet one heading west one east.
foxwedge looked well-maybe not the biggest but long. good enough looking horse.
delegator looked well and i think looks like the best bet of first season sires to use (good looks,pedigree,speed ,race record,price)ticks alot of boxs and he is very well known in uk where he raced alot.

the rest we have seen before.

Frankel gets mare in foal....PHEW.

Now I can start planning my 2014 matings to him with confidence! but seriously, this is great news for the Brittish breeding industry, we have a stronger depth of GB stallions than ever before.

Has anybody here seen Requinto?  I wasn't taken be another Dansili originally but I like the fact his dam was a group 1 winning 2yo and he's situated quite close to me, however I  haven't  a chance to go and have a look,

Well I'll answer my own question as I managed to have a look at him, he looks like a small bull, nailed on 2yo but cant imagine they'll come to much after that, possibly thats what the market wants now. Yeats was in the box beside him, real classy looking horse, is there no hope for him?

As they say ovalu, if you want something doing. . .

I have not seen Requinto so couldn't help you but now you can help us! Any further elaborations?

Some of his ilk knit well with a slightly stouter type of mare and with his pedigree he might just get types with a bit more scope perhaps.

Of course there is hope for Yeats. He has the same sort of profile as Montjeu and he did okay. He has had enough mares to help him if he's good enough. Of course there is no room really for his type if he just turns out to be a 'servicable' type of sire it's top notch or jumping really for him, and whilst right now he's laying down the foundations for the latter, he could conceivably Uturn.
I suppose those in the know (not me) have seen enough of his youngstock have decided NH is the likelehood but stranger things have happened.

Where are those two? Is CastleHyde still the venue for their types?

Unfortunately PM I am a complete novice at this game so I wouldn't have the knowledge to give
you an indepth report on his conformation, however I didn't notice any obvious faults, he looked to me like an Angus bull if that makes sense, he's all muscle and he kind of shuffles along compared to Yeats who was a classy walker, they claimed he's 15'3, well if he is its on his tippy toes. They're in Castlehyde along with Choisir and Alfred Nobel

it's funny how he smaller ones seem to stand so readily on their tiptoes when the measuring stick appears, yet the big'uns seem to just as readily be able to bend their knees at the approprite moment!

Sounds like Requinto will have to be off and running Brockelsby onwards in 2016. . .

Requinto will get sharp looking foals and mrs Ma says he walks fine.  If you thought he looked like a bull can't think what you made of Choisir, did he have a ring through his nose?

As Prima Donna appears to be on leave at the moment (hopefully nothing more worrying than that Prima) I feel I can have a bit of a b1tch about the cheap speedies!

Are you likely to use Requinto ovalu? Are you heading in that direction too yer ma?

I know there's money to be made with the cheap speedsters but it's my experience that a bit of scope and quality is where the proper money lies. I would be looking for ways to try and expand on his small and set physique ovalu. Don't send him a short coupled tiddler for sure.

yer ma, you are older and uglier like myself so you don't need my pontifications. Has Mrs Ma done a good tour of any others that we can learn from her dropped pearls. . .?

Yes I may use him as has been said he looks like he'll get early fast types and I have a strong taller mare who I think might work with him, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with his walk yer ma, perhaps I phrased it wrong but he walked like you'd expect a compact muscular speedster to, as opposed to the more elegant strut of a middle distance type, why he reminded me of a bull was due to his muscular shoulders and torso

We've one trying now, part of a package deal and frankly the other Coolmore cheapies arent viable imo.  The mares a big strong thing but not produced anything so far so if its a nice fast looking colt then fine, otherwise it'll clearly be a struggle.  I loved Damson and I'd probably argue looks wise I had a better chance (at much less money) getting something attractive by Dansili line than say Zoffany or Delegator.

Power & Pour Moi look the business.  RVW is lovely looking but not as imposing as you might imagine (from photos), I think he might be a bit variable produce wise but the hype is on for sure. I've always liked HRE but back up around 20k isnt giving you a chance.  Born to Sea has a lot of quality (fancy that), enough to forget about his performance (shhhh)

How is Excellebration getting on? heard he was off games for a while.

Any noises from any first season sires with runners? Didnt expect AO'B to have so many early types ready for the first 2yo race at the Curragh on Sunday.

No Pot M I'm not on leave I've been following this thread but lately I've had lots of things that needed my full attention,I've not had the time to reply really.I'd agree with your point that a bit of scope and quality is where the real money lies but if its possible to combine that with preciosity then its hard not to see a highly commercial package.Of the new cheaper sires available one who stands out is the Tally-Ho based Sir Prancealot,Have any of you seen him?Requinto seriously lacks scope imo I cant see him getting anything more than fast early sorts with no class but we will have to wait and see.Dansili as I've said before many times can get good sorts but he also can get plenty of not so good ones,his brother Champs Elysees the same,that's always a thought when it comes to using a son of his.

It's no good asking for your old job back now Prima, you've got to let it go. . .

Surely, you're getting a little divi from that nice Warren anyway.

(I'm sure this isn't what has been preoccupying you, but I was looking for a chance to mention it! )

I am wary of the inconsistent Dansili but am having a go with a slightly ill bred one local to me anyway. We shall see

Thanks for your comments yer ma on your recent viewing exersise. I hope Mrs ma didn't have you shelling out too much at the K club whilst you were there!

Much as I'd like to think I could still do my 'old job'I'm more than old enough to know I'd only make a fool of myself,much as my ego tells me otherwise,so I have 'let it go'you will be pleased to hear that I'm sure!Little 'divies' are always welcome you know that too.I think you are still wearing your Colombo rain coatGood luck with the son of Dansili you are sending one of your mares to,he should be well received next year.
How is that mare who lost her foal?Is she booked in yet to anything?And hows the colt from the northern one now are you pleased with him?See his daughter has been flying the flag again and should go on again with a bit of luck.Her bro' has had the same treatment and connections are hopeful of a return to top class form,if all comes good you should get a healthy return,I hope you do as you yourself pointed out I do have expensive tastes esp' with champagne,unlike you I don't drink Fanta!!!

Anyone see or using Sayif?Completely dismissed this sire but he has a very good book of mares,a surprisingly good book.I perhaps should of given him more serious thought.

No my Dirty raincoat isn't really on, but as the old firm has been in the news I was reminded of your time back there. Tell you what though, I'm making a lot of blEEding raincoats dirty in this feck awful 'spring' that's refusing to spring.

First cover of the year came up empty on wednesday so that hasn't improved my mood either. At least today she appears to be coming back into season though god knows why she should.

The mare who lost her foal is out in the field (with a rug on I hasten) as I thought that her mental health was paramount. She had a good foal heat and as she always foals up to a week early I thought I would let her have a couple of seasons and look at her middle of next month. As I was made a good offer - and I mean good! - to return to a stallion I thought I would take it as then there is no significant expense involved should she fancy making a habit of foals that expire. It's a risk, but I think I'm happy with it.

No problems with the foal you refer to. It's a constant improver with a bit of presence and a great walk so bay colt with two white feet and a white star is always a good starting point! I would seriously like the brother and sister to have a good season though.

I thought a lot about Sayif as I believe him to be a nice type but I was very disappointed with the way the Stimulation foals 'took off'. Same stud, same pedigree profile, good looking. But as someone said on here (and forgive me for not crediting the poster - crap memory) it's a son of Kheleyf with a dodgy race record not Danzig. . .
Obviously, the owners of Sayif are powerful and at the moment appear very committed. A salient point for sure.

Have you Prima had anything this year that has exceeded your expectations or any big disappointments? Is your F/C ratio improving.

Oh, I don't drink Fanta, but if I am buying, I can't afford for us both to dring the best champagne so I just assumed you as a gentleman wouldn't mind pulling on that tinny ring