vet packages -whats everyone thing of prices

sammy your last point is a bit tricky surely? You can hardly use a practice alien to the one used by your boarding stud.

Rossdales are expensive but I am sure they are on a par with Greenwood Ellis. I always think these vets schemes are just a simple gamble like any other. Is your mare easy is the stallion fertile? Then wing it. If either are likely to be problematical then perhaps not!

I don't foal mares away from home so I wouldn't know about foal costs. I never have a foal looked at until markings time unless a specific problem appears. So much of what gets done is about a vets ability to convince as imperative what is merely an option.

Don't you get your mare and foal looked at the next day after foaling IGG for example?I tend to think ALL vets are expensive.Rossdales certainly know how to charge,we had a foal in NMKT a few years ago that was taken ill,off it went to Rossdales for a few weeks of treatment...........the bill was over 5k!!!The dear LITTLE thing never made the stud fee back it was by the late and some think great Singspiel.

Vet schemes need to be competitive as an example Norton Grove do a very good one everything for about £360/80 that's not bad.

this year i am looking to get my mares covered in their foal heat, something i havent done before. I have been told i need to get a vet in to wash her out, is this right?

Truehoncho,

This is to clear out any debris etc that may have gone in during foaling. It may stop mares from aborting early.Mind you not all foal heats are strong enough to cover from but your vet should be able to advise about each mare's likelyhood of catching. If the stallion is at a bit of distance it could prove to be quite expensive in terms of travel costs etc.Good luck!

DF

DustyFog,You have a point but the travel costs will be the same regardless of foal heat or not.Any saving you may make will only occur if you walk the mare in to the stallion,the only saving I can see is the keep.
truehoncho,Yes its a good idea to get your mare washed out the next morning after foaling as pointed out above,your vet will then advise if she has a realistic chance of covering on the foal heat,if she's a maiden mare its very likely she will be bruised or in some cases even torn,if the foaling goes easily then if she was mine I'd give her a shot on the foal heat.
Personally I think its false economy walking mares in I'd rather send the mare to the stud(but I know its not always possible)IMO the cost saving of any keep is negligible when you consider the added transport costs,and remember you have to be spot on with her heat to stand a good chance of conception,otherwise its valuable time and money lost in the process.

thanks PD.

PD, I assumed that the mare was going to walk in. :)

POTM, it would be interesting to hear a little more about the vet 'optionals' you mentioned above. I've heard so many variations but in the end go for the full works... just in case !

It's good see a 'horse care ' type of thread.

You've all heard the phrase 'who rattled his cage' - well you've been warned.

Where to begin.

Who actually can prove that it's best to wash a mare out if you want to cover in the foaling heat? I reckon I would like to see a study of atleast 50 mares covered without irrigation and 50 mares with before I was convinced. Every uterous is different - and how, so it would have to be a biggish survey for me. Has anyone done such a study?
The fact is irrigation seems like a good idea, and therefore it's an easy sell by our dear altruistic (not) veterinarians.
I think large boarding studs take the easy option with so many treatments because they aren't sufficiently confident in their management and/or they are frightened of what their clients will say when something doesn't go to plan. "But we did everything 'Aga/Queenie/WeaselWarren' that the marvellous (money grabbing) vets told us"

I don't do IGG levels (an option DustyFog) Prima. The 1st public stud I worked at didn't and nothing too exciting happened (25 yrs ago mind!). It's compulsory if you insure isn't it but I don't. No ones yet convinced me that letting insurers decide my every move is any more desirable than letting the vets. They all want a healthy profit so I'd rather pit my knowledge against theirs. And now I rely on my fellow Betfairians too!! If I've supervised the birth and the foal sucks - does well at the other end! can walk and see then I don't see what else can't wait! Prepared to be told if I'm totally negligent (again) but my vet's never tried.

I am pretty evangelical about walking in though and having just had Coolmore's keep and vet's charge packages through ( A minimum stay of 30 days is 36.67eu per day (49eu if not) Vet 585eu ) I know that it's cheaper to have them at home for me too. Juddmonte went on record as saying that when they stopped having boarding mares, only allowing walk in mares to their stallions, their stallion's conception rates actually improved and I am completely confident in my ability along with my vet to get the job done.
However linking back to unecessary intervention with foals, it is the health of my foals that is the reason why I never board over here. The disease rates on a busy public stud are considerable. The endemic disease on my establishment is zero. No Rattles, No Rotovirus indeed no serious scouring ever.
Add to the mix no All Weather paddocks or worse, barn loads of barreners knocking seven bells out of each other!

Dusty, limb surgery is the other optional that springs to mind. Basically joints nicked, stapled or likewise to aid their straightening. Dubious at best. You can never prove whether intervention has done any more than nature would have done if you'd left well alone. However the best study that I have seen done on the Wildensteins U.S. foals concluded that they were best left well alone - if memory serves!

Now even I'm bored of my own drivel, so well done if you've got this far anyone . . .

again, thanks PotM.

i walk in also. went from scotland to darleys(newmarket), cost about 160 quid fuel, hit first time and mare home and happy by 10pm. went to norton grove (malton) cost about 100 quid fuel, hit first time mare home and happy by tea time. if either had missed you can do the fuel maths.

my vet charges about £80 for scan and £30 for injection to bring into season. thats about £300 per mare. i only have a few mares (3) so this is possible but if i get a couple more it may prove too much.

I think the washing out thing may be sensible for someone as inexperienced as myself and PD point about checking for damage is important for someone as inexperienced as myself. Do you live in the south of scotland by any chance PotM? i could run to about £50 in taxi fares!!

I can see why you would irrigate truehoncho. I might do myself but it's a long time since I tried a foal heat. Everything is statistically more iffy with foal heat. Conception, early abortion and late slipping are all worse so I'm always a bit wary.

Your set up is certainly serving you well so far. Don't think it's always so rosy!

I'm not near Scotland I'm afraid and a little unclear as to your motives - are you after a date?

I always think its a good idea to wash any mare out after foaling esp' if you intend to try and cover the mare on the foaling heat.Like Pot M say's statistically its the hardest heat for conception,but in nature the foaling heat is sort of natures way of flushing herself out so look at it this way washing her out right after foaling is a way of speeding up that process so thus greatly enhancing her chance of conceiving a pregnancy.
In this industry sometimes its easy to forget its a natural process,but left entirely to nature remember the conception rate is low!
Trying something new is not to be dismissed its better to at least give it some serious thought...........even if its a romantic date with Pot M!you never know you might like it.

sorry if it seemed like being a smart alec, i was only trying to compare costs. even if the martes missed it would still be cheaper for me to travell a bit and walk in. last year we had only one mare and her foal died, this year i have 2 in foal but both due in may and if i don't try the foal heat then if either miss first time this year they will have june foals next year, so i think its worth the chance.

i will definately taKE all your advice on board.

Although I didn't have a date in mind, I will give it some serious thought!!

Go on truehoncho give the date some thought........ he might like what's up your kilt

I agree,with your mares foaling so late I'd try the foaling heat.At that time of year nothing much to loose.

Listen here Prima Donna. There is a very considerable queue. AND there is a certain 'smooth' operator always trying to push in. Be afraid, be very afraid . . .

Gosh truehoncho due in May, I would be resting them. It can be very tough commercially with a late foal and it often restricts your choice of stallion with the popular ones being not keen on one jump contracts. Perhaps consider getting a cheapie maiden at Goffs to start early with whilst you wait for your current mares to 're-wind' ?

potentialmillionaire     Joined: 17 Mar 10
Replies: 1425 11 Feb 12 20:00 
Listen here Prima Donna. There is a very considerable queue. AND there is a certain 'smooth' operator always trying to push in

Oh please Pot M,must we all hear about your gang-bang exploits!And as for the smooth operator always trying to 'push in'....lets not go there!!

Not such a bad idea truehoncho about buying a cheapie at Goffs,lot 490 perhaps.

She looks better a'la Goffs stylee page Prima. I haven't got her on my list as it doesn't look a good page Tatts style!

I've got flights booked but I do have an overdue mare so I'm playing it cool and I booked them cheaply a week or so ago so I could ditch them if necessary.

I'm hoping that it'll be just me and the Goffs cat, unlike overpopulated Tatts last week.

I agree the page does look better at Goffs.I think that there will be profit in her,not such a bad buy for just 800gns we will know later this week but as I said on the Ascot thread it always pays to keep an eye on those cheaper sales.I do think she could be worth a punt.
Talking of cheapie's I may well send a UK based mare who I own a half share of to a certain stallion who's not too far from you,she has a very nice page along with her race track achievements and plenty might say 'she's far too good for him'but as I always say there's money in the 'cheap' sires he's one who I think there could well be.
Who are you using?

Yes I too could see a small profit in lot 490 for the enterprising folks who picked her up at Ascot.

I'm trying to persuade friends to use Helvellyn instead of a stone cold 'proven' also localish. I think I'm winning and it's an interesting pedigree cross so I'm awaiting news of his fertility last year and money required/numbers booked for this.

I think I'm about to commit to a lukewarm hardy annual for a mare I may sell in July. I often think an old 'reliable' is a good bet for a sales cover as it doesn't actually put you off buying a mare, whereas a younger or wrong year stallion, perhaps doesn't catch the play it safe type of purchaser.

Another saturday night, another theory. . .

I understand his fertility is in the region of 95% and his mare number looks set for a similar amount this year.Also there are very good deals available for obviously good mares.Your friends could do with listening to you,I have never understood the popularity with the 'cold' local sire,apart from being a good looking horse commercial breeders seemed to completely over look the fact he never ran until late as a 3y'old.With his sire coupled with his BM sire I've never for one moment thought he would get 2y'olds..........staggering the numbers who did!

Thanks for that Prima. I shall see my friends tomorrow so I shall report the facts and see if they have made contact - and received the same details!

The stallion to whom I believe   you refer is not the end of the world and has had quite a few niceish horses. However aa we always say, you need to get 2yo's or you need to be Galileo. Not much scope for the inbetweeners. I bred a useful horse by him so I suppose I shouldn't complain but I do think he's mighty difficult now.

With reference to your selection of vet's 'optional extras', I would be inclined to agree to some extent. Fortunatly we've been able to steer clear of the limb surgery stuff so far...touch wood...But never thought of letting the IGG tests go.

I guess all this goes toward's stacking the odds in one's own favour. Maybe it helps at the sales too... just to reassure the buyer that he is buying something that has been looked after 'well'.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. There's whole lot of other areas that could be looked at..feed types...winter care... vaccinations....prepping etc etc. I'm talking back to basics.