Sir Percy

When I heard someone say he was already full for next year, I nearly fell off my chair! is this true?

I think he actually did ok with his 2yo's, but is there really so little options avalable that a sire like this fills before Christmas?! amazing.

i didn't know that. thought he might suit a mare i have at the right price (i was hoping for a decent discount), so looks like this plans finished before it got started

the odd thing about this  is if he had retired as a very good looking, well bred champion 2yowho was  2nd in gns, we would all be falling over ourselves to use him, but because he won the derby (kiss of death comercially) and raced on at four we are all a bit sniffy at 6k, its a funny old game as they say

i wasn't that sniffy at the price its just that my budget wont go that far. However, I'm not sure how commercial he is and suprised to hear he has a full book already.

How are Bearstone Stud's stallions going. Firebreak looks good in his photo (i havent seen him inthe flesh), and has had a few good winners. Looking at the breeding of his winners he hasn't had a lot of quality and still managed to get a G1 winner.

Major Cadeaux is a good outcross and Indesatchel is a cheap son of DD (although his sales returns look moderate). Anyone got any thoughts on these?

Does anyone know how long the free keep lasts with Bearstone.  I have a Firebreak foal due in March.  Undecided were the mare is going as yet.

i was'nt having a go at you honcho, just making a genral observation of commercial breeders

littleun2,A breeder who I know well is sending one to Bearstone Stud I understand the free keep lasts for 9 weeks.Not such a bad deal really as its mostly all the other costs that makes trying to make money the hardest from that level of mare.
I have noticed Pint Size is in Tuesdays Ascot sale.Have you not thought about Monsieur Bond?Close to you and being a B.TB. Corporation customer you should be in line for a good discount,far more commercial than any of Bearstone's sires but obviously its completely up to you.

As for Sir Percy well he has done well enough from the class of mares he's had,given the right sort of mares there's no reason at all why such a high class runner as Sir Percy can't get you a top class horse.If he's full now it just shows plenty of commercial breeders can see he holds plenty of promise and well done to his connections.
A top class very tough runner who frankly was a better horse than the ill fated Horatio Nelson who for some reason was rated higher..........(we all know why really) despite beating him in the Dewhurst.

My remaining 2 mares would be also rans if I went to Monsiuer Bond. I was hoping to use Sir Percy but poor sales sorted that decision for me. I noticed Pint Size was for sale of Gay Kelleways website, but didnt know he was in sale, I dont think he will do anything next year rated too high and was only going to be a 2 year old.

Sir Percy is one of those rare creatures that has received bigger and better books every year since he went to stud. I love the type of stallion that doesn't quite catch the imagination first time up but then the market seems to catch up with them later on. Ch. 2yo that is then 2nd in the guineas - "how cheap?"

Not unfaultable in conformation or pedigree, but without doubt always worth consideration in my opinion I don't think the Derby killed him atall, it was the fizzling out after that and his sire that made him iffy. A lot of horse at the price. Plenty of pedigree to make an impression as a broodmare sire too.
Obviously plenty got preoccupied with the potential commercial negatives but that doesn't stop them running and that commercial thing sure is keeping the fee attractively low. Tregonnings colt is very progressive and Kirsten Rausing's filly in Ireland could be anything.

I took note of Bearstone Stud's new photographer. So much more professional portraits! I can't see Firebreak ever really taking off but that might not be due to lack of ability. Major Cadeaux's first foals were favourably commented on by luminaries of this sight and he looks like a commercial slab of a horse so that would make him my pick of their's. Indesatchel is not for me.

There's space at Monsieur Bond littleun2 if you are interested so perhaps you'll get the fee moved? I reckon that Prima Donna (for surely he must be a major shareholder) could fix you up

Sir Percy had had 15 UK wins this year to date, not bad for a first season sire whose progeny should stay. Monsieur Bond's progression has been: 13 first season, 15 second, 36 third and 49 to date this year.

Of the Bearstone trio I'd agree Major Cadeaux commercially looks about the best bet,but I'd also agree a 'slab of a horse'who was imo pitched a bit high when racing,his foals mind didn't look that bad either.
As for me being a major shareholder in Monsieur Bond well if only but sad to say not........he's just a good commercial stallion who offers any breeder in that price range fantastic value.The most obvious and important quality he has shown is he can 'upgrade' modest mares that's always a sign of a very good stallion imo.
Shall I assume Pot M you have at least given Norton Grove a call?

Might have Prima, might have!

I am having to keep reminding myself of the mantra that they are all a gamble though!

He never appealed to me from the off but given he was at 3500 and at Whitsbury I think he must have had a reasonable send off. I wish therefore that his AEI was higher than Domedriver, Where or When, Passing Glance, Dilshaan, Sulamani and Bollin Eric! Indeed it seems to be the lowest AEI of any horse at stud. So for someone who likes to help ones mares it remains a worry that I might be helping them to breed a very poor horse if I use him

Having said all that though, there are plenty of horses that will give you next to no chance of breeding a decent horse so it's swings and roundabouts - as ever!

I have had a good starting point offer for Captain Gerrard. I have a NH mare that I am hoping to improve the deal with. I can't make my mind up between Overbury or Multiplex. They are similarly priced, any views?

Nothing against CGerrard, but was slightly disappointed by his Tatts foal average of 8k considering it was his first foals and all bar one sold were colts. Only saw a couple tho, what was the general opinion?

I didn't think they were his best foals, but I suppose thats the chance you take. There was one I liked and bid for but went over my budgetWith the pedigree of the foals on offer I don't think they could have done much better.

Of the two Mickley stallions truehoncho I'd go for Multiplex,because he's a new horse who gets good sorts and think as well if Westerner does well(another Danehill)then I reckon Multiplex's stock will be sought after.Have also in your mind Overbury is at his level,Multiplex could be anything in the jumps field.

Now that it has been confirmed that Sir Percy is definitely full, it made me worry what other similar types of stallion might be getting full.

Has everyone else on here already booked most of their mares for next year, or am I the only one lagging behind?

With such strong sales across the board this year any stallion who is commercial proven or otherwise will be getting close to full by now,sit on the fence too long and you could see the stallion you want full......

Thanks PD,

i think thats a good point about each horses potential.

Thanks PD,

i think thats a good point about each horses potential.

Wily, I have got one pencilled in to a 'posh' stallion who I imagine won't have availability much longer. The others aren't yet booked but I am thinking of stallions we discuss endlessly on here but who aren't at the zenith of popularity as we speak. I certainly think those with a recently prominent headline horse or a successful sales season behind them need a close eye kept on them. We've heard plenty about some of them being full already, and some of them pretty surprisingly!

Dare I ask is the 'posh'stallion here or over with you?Is he posh because he's expensive or not?

I'll take a stab at 'posh' meaning highclere and the incomparable Paco Boy.  Not sure if Sir Percy being full is a reason or a disincentive to take up the one we've been offered - possibly the former.   Anyone actually got a handle on whether the foals have been big / backward / attractive..what explains the poorer FOAL sale stats?  Its a worry for me.

You're a Coarse Angler Prima

Over with you, expensive and yes I'm heading near over-covering territory.
I am hopeful that the exchange rate will help me out. I've had your words of wisdom ringing loud but I couldn't see a way of downgrading to a cheapie and the mid divisioners just don't appeal on the whole, right now. Actually this is dangerous fee territory for us all perhaps as neither mega nor minor but it gives the mare in question the best possible pedigree cross.

Are you going near the hold your breath and count to ten signing the cheque territory? You know the one

You are a tough nut to crack Pot'M, no more clues 'for me'?

You don't like him Prima - but you do use him at times I think.

Sorry yer ma for a crossing post. My experience with Sir Percy was a none to correct one! His faults in front and behind, multiplied I wouldn't expect big or bkwd was too likely unless your mare insisted in going that way. My advice (and isn't this always advisable!) would be a mare with a good set of tree trunks.

And there's me thinking you could understand French,and as for the hold your breath when signing horse well who knows....but one things for sure you can look in the return of mares later next yearI'm trying to be a little less obvious,what I will say is I'm sure you can imagine we use most stallions from all ranges so yes its feasible.

Very much my worries with Sir Percy and if this mares offspring continue to do well I may have to consider selling in foal and cant see a Sir Percy helping with that.  We do try to 'buy british' but its a struggle this year.  At least I have I have until March and cant help thinking some of this 2/3rd season 'full' book claims are bluster.

Pot M,I've just been told by you know who a certain sire who we have had success with and its one who I've said before I'm not really that keen on him largely due to his colour and being a major influence of stamina but plenty regard him as top notch.With your recent sales I'd guess he's now affordable.
Are you hoping that he's perhaps on track to get the 2013 'Arc winner the year you may have a foal to sell?
If I'm right I wish you luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
One things for sure the colt out of the star mare will at the very least get plenty of coverage,all the time raising the stallions kudos.
One more thing did you see the 'great'horse?If you did would you agree with my appraisal of him?

I had an interesting conversation with one of the big Newmarket Studs about one of their stallions. I was told he was virtually full this year. Then I said that my mare is currently in foal to him, so I'd rather wait to see what quality of foal I get until committing.

The response then changed to; that sounds like a sensible course of action, give us a ring back in March when I'm sure we will be able to fit your mare in.

So actually the stallion is obviously nowhere near full, and come March they will be desperate for as many mares for him as they can get!!

i guess there are a few like that Race1. I've been offered Captain Gerrard for 2k if i sign before xmas. I think it will be 1.5k or less in march. At he moment theres not much discount on Showcasing but i think that will change in March too.

by the way, my vet has a lovely Sakhees Secret colt foal

i guess there are a few like that Race1. I've been offered Captain Gerrard for 2k if i sign before xmas. I think it will be 1.5k or less in march. At he moment theres not much discount on Showcasing but i think that will change in March too.

by the way, my vet has a lovely Sakhees Secret colt foal

truehonch, I think that with a general lack of 1st seasoners this year, the 2nd season horses are going to benefit. Arcano and I believe Equiano are full and although I too wonder exactly what the full sign can actually represent. I am not sure the likeable 2nd year horses are going to keep dropping.
I think if Captain Gerrard is to get anything like a full book this year after disappointing 1st foal figures it will require a pretty low fee. I suppose you have to work out just how far R. Kent will go in the cutting off his nose to spite his face stakes. One thing for sure, any fee deals will not deteriorate for the CG punter as time goes by!

Prima I think we are tying each other in knots!! I am completely in the dark over your concerns on my language skills With regard to your ideas on my ideas, it is not the stallion you refer to. No way would I go near him unless I had a nailed on strong type of mare. He is surely the most owner/breeder'y horse at stud today. With regard to the wonderful STS, yes I did get to see him and I liked him very much. However my delight at finally getting to see him was tempered by the realisation that I have to acknowledge begrudgingly what a very valid summary you have given on him on here!! Maybe his stock will come to hand in time to appease the market long term - no one can tell - but you wouldn't bet on it would you. He's not a million miles from the mystery horse mind!

Prima I think we are tying each other in knots!! I am completely in the dark over your concerns on my language skills

If you translate 'For me'into French that's the stallion who I was originally thinking could be your 'posh' sire,but now I'm thinking its one of the above's family also here in Kildare..........a chestnut,as he is one I've used but personally I'm not mad on.Could it be him?

Aha. I've given Le Francaise a lot of thought as it happens. I thought him a real chip off Grandad's block. But 'for me' he just didn't walk an inch. Did you see, have you heard, whether I was just unlucky? As he's good strong and 1st season should we just ignore the late maturing and lack of walk?

Not chesnut, might be the right stud though!

Yes I'd agree about'for me'can't help thinking they are trading off the fact he's so much like Grandad but like you he's not for me.
I'm none the wiser about your mystery stallion so I will be in the dark for a while yet,but good luck we both hope it goes right for you it takes 'balls' taking a big gamble well done.
Let us both wish you a very happy Christmas Pot M and best wishes for the new year,just after Christmas we will be spending time abroad but all being well will be back around the end of Jan,I will have plenty of time thinking who the stallion is.
Happy Christmas T,T&C

Happy New Year to all at PrimaDonna Towers.

I hope that 2012 fills in another gap or two in the big race portfolio that the lovely horse added to so brilliantly in  2011.

May we all keep producing the odd nice horse to keep the dream alive!

Well Pot M after a month of pacing up and down the bedroom each night chanting "who is the posh stallion he's using"I'm still none the wiser.Have you made your mind up yet?Can you at least give me a clue?And thanks for those kind wishes above.

I think I can come clean now as negotiations are in the past and I didn't make the leap. Indeed I am still to make any leap for that mare but I'm pretty close.

Perfect match on pedigree and a good horse to get you a nice winner, but at the wrong end of his career and it's hard to see there would be much return on the fee in 2 years time when the horse would be 20. The usual balance then between the right thing for the mare and the right thing for the profit and loss a/c. Maybe post 'The big horse' mares could give him a late resurgence.

Incidentallty, there would be little chance of that liaison producing a 2yo, but you will know, does he often do big and backward?

Can you tell what it is yet?

(CC)

Now I understand,I did think you were on about Tamayuz being a chestnut and not a million miles from STS with him being from the same family 'the great horse'.Yes we have used him imo far too much and overall I'd say they tend to either be biggish sorts who want time but MOST are nice racy types who like the others also want time.
He's alright but personally I don't really like him that much.

Thanks for that, I knew you were luke warm at best!

I think you use him on one of your mares with a french connection - and I don't see how you could go anywhere else either!

Hi PD and Pot M,

Glad to see your back contributing PD, life without you and pot M, joshing about and the rest of the contributors make a fascinating and enjoyable read,many thanks to all you guys,great stuff

Keep chipping in Midas, everyone contributes interesting snippets. And sadly we all get a bit boring now and then too!

Pot M,

Its fascinating for me as an owner to read all you breeders professional opinions on various stallions/bloodlines/aspirations, trust me its opened my eyes to the problems/dreams/disasters all you guys encounter,tremendous stuff!!

I dont mean the sad/disastrous stuff you go through!!

By the way Pot M,

I meant to mention I have a 3yo unraced Kheleyf that my trainer ( who isnt a mug honestly)is getting excited about,fingers crossed!!

Good luck with your Kheleyf midas7. He get's a ton of winners but perhaps is best known for his 2yos.

As I will be using the horse this year - along with a ridiculous ammount of others it appears - I think that it is written in the stars that yours will be a superstar. If it's not you'll have me to answer to!

Kheleyf does get a ton of winners and he certainly has sold well last sales and at 3k he does look enticing,but do have in the back of your mind he really needs to turn it in this year else he will be gone.
I understand the policy with him is take as many mares as they can get this year,if his runners do nothing more than they already have he will be sold,his connections will not support him from now on.

I do realise that he is sailing in choppy waters now and where he is going to be at the end of the year is anyones guess. I think however that other than the spring of 2009 covering those better post 1st season mares he always has been in choppy waters and he's muddled along.

The yearlings from those better mares considerably outsold his dodgy reputation last Autumn I feel, so they were obviously a good bunch. The final swinger for me was that when I looked through his french 2yos in 2011 I found he had 6 runners and they all won.

Cheap maiden then and I think the balance for a winner/poss good sale is the best there is.

I agree with that,at 3k he probably is worth the punt.Even if he doesn't go on and they do sell him,well so what at least the mare stands a good chance of getting a 2 y'old winner on her page.

Phew. Now all I have to do is get you to buy it!

Doubt I could afford it!

You'll have to sacrifice 2014's January somewhere hot and I'll take Slick with my Tatts cheque!!

keep giving those good Kheleyf vibes lads.

You'll have to sacrifice 2014's January somewhere hot and I'll take Slick with my Tatts cheque!


Listen Slick has VERY expensive taste.......why else do you think she puts up with me

NOW it makes sense . . .

Glad you realize,of course its nothing to do with me being so devilishly good looking and a charmer and young(at heart)at least!!Still when you get to my age its more of a case of one foot in the grave and one on the banana skinBut I will tell her she has a secret admirer she'll love it!

You've not got a monopoly on the banana skin!