2012 Fees for the commercial breeder

its was an interesting post honest but chopped in the ether for some reason. ignore

Could still be an interesting post yer ma. However if I've got you right then I'm going to have to disappoint. Value is looking seriously short in supply. I'm beggared if I've got many ideas.

However much as Medicean is really difficult commercially his fee is certainly beginning to look like it's suitably compensatory. Do we really think Dutch Art is going to rival his sire as a producer of high class stock? I certainly wouldn't have him as 50% more likely. (Naive comparison, but you get the point!)

Cheveleys ever changing fees do hack one off rather. Kyllachy should definitely have stayed put. A great year at the sales has rewarded the guys that used him in 2009 but it's no help to the folks that use him in 2012. With no change in his actual ability as a stallion why cannot more people just keep things steady. The 9k Royal Applause over the years springs to mind.

I think medicean could well be a commercial prospect at 8k. i totally agree with your point about him and dutch art PotM.

There is very little about as we keep saying. Poets Voice at 12k looks very expensive to me. In fact all of Darley's worth using look expensive except Kheleyf, who is not for everyone.

The options don't look much different to last year, just more expensive

It makes me laugh some thinking Poets Voice is a 6k stallion a GR2 winning 2y'old who went on to win the QE2 by Dubawi.Had him down as a 10/12k sire reckon David Redvers must now feel Makfi at 25k looks mighty expensive,Poets Voice a much better 2 y'old too.Darley never get it right he'd of been much better at that price last year then he could cream off Makfi's mares.

I think thats the point PD, if he was retired last year 12k would be value, but he did nothing this year and surely they need to give some discount for his failure in order to atttract mares? they have increased Dubawi to 75k which may give PVs fee a better look, but I think 8/9k this year would have been better.

P.S

if they retired Dubawi Gold this year I think they could do extremely well

well i agree but what price

makfi for 2012 ?

any guesses?

mine is 20k

dr already stated no change for makfi 25 as last year

Are n't some of these prices just the opening gambit in negotiations?

I hope so Squidly. Coolmore I have to say I think are getting nearer the mark.

yes i agree -first time in a long time coolmore look like they are in the real world -i think cc price is good and i might go there with a mare to him- ssb 10k -is he dead?

rest of my note was generally a despairing moan about how 12k for both DAs is laughable but maybe now 12k is the new 6k!  PD you couldnt resist it!  I was pushing a pointless agenda with 6k - I said on another note that over £10k was a put off and would totally stand by that.  Is he really going to fly off the shelf in 2014.  I doubt it very much.  Makfi will probably have bombed that year for one

If Darley could be relied upon to prop up the sales of most of their stallions then some of these rises would be fine...but that reliance seems a thing of the past.  Will they buy 15 exceed & excels at £60k?  I dont think so.

I'd say 5 of the 10 stallions I was looking at are not good 'value'.  Dutch Art, E&E, HRE (sure some card on here said they'd give you 2 for 10! last year), Poets Voice & Teofilo (although keeping him low was a faint hope).  Left with Medicean, Bah B, Excellent Art, Zoffany (v. marginal) & Champ El.  For the first time in a long time I see nothing (that I havent got already) at

I think E and E is crazy. This is a horse that has 4 crops of racing age and all of a sudden his fee more than doubles. I do think that in his case and perhaps Dubawi it is a lot to do with Darley Rabbah associates and the like and the demand they place on their own desirable horses. They like to support them obviously and all of Tipperary is a no go area for what is a very large broodmare band. I think it is a lot about the fact that they just don't have that much availability. Is it a case that they've got them high to self restrict numbers and therefore make the maximum from those noms they do sell?

I know that it's a recurring theme of mine but I do think it's desperately dodgy ground piling into flavour of the month 1st season 'success stories'

I would need to be 'Invicible Spiritedly' sure that they were the real deal. Otherwise you are just skating on Kheleyf/Faslieyev/Iffraaj/Bertolini ice and we all know how brittle that can turn out to be.
I am not convinced by this seasons members. Respectable enough in some cases - in fact in a lot of cases but to be really excited I would like those with lowly beginnings to be posting Teofilo/Excellent Art figures and those with great support, Teofilo/Excellent Art, to be cranking it up a bit more than that.

Still potential for sure but I'm going to wait and see before I start chasing Yeomanstown and Cheveley.

Will there be a new stallion for juddmonte at Banstead next year?
workforce?
byword?
twice over?

I know you can pick holes in the above, but in a very poor year for first season sires in 2012, I would have thought one of them might be given a chance. Thoughts?

I agree Wilycayote.

Considering all their success, you would have thought they could find something to replace Observatory(Twice Over?) and Three Valleys who has been such a disappointment.

I'm glad I've got December sales on my mind right now as every time my mind drifts to a utopian state when I'm still in business and therefore could possibly still be able to afford to cover some mares I start getting palpitations. We must keep this thread going as someone somewhere surely has an idea that there is something offering some value out there?

We sound rather alike PotM, I'm putting off numerous decisions until week Saturday. I need to get some mares back in sync so the lack of options may be an opportunity to buy a mare in lieu of overpriced covers.  I reckon the value this year is probably a few 15k-25k 2nd 3rd seasoners but I cant justify that for these mares.  Mastercraftsman, RVW, Ravens Pass, maybe Lawman

Pot M
- like Yer ma said, perhaps go for some 2nd season sires. Its surprising what deals you can get on them. Across the price ranges I'm taking a look at; Lord Shanakil, Rip Van W, Showcasing, Starspangledbanner (particularly the last).

Hopefully, plenty of value to be had if we pick up the phone.

Keep'em coming. The Starspangledbanner fee is perhaps one of the most interesting developments this year is it not? Have people been really hacked off by his sub-fertility? He certainly has some appeal at that.

I would like a new mare or two as well yer ma, but I am resigned to not go near Dec mares as I think they always represent the worst value in the bloodstock business and this year they are going to be stratospheric!