Monsieur Bond 5K for 2012

Johnny Mustang,
Where did you get that from?Mind you if he does go to 5k and I'm not surprised continues to offer tremendous value. Arguabley the best stallion son of Danehill Dancer.In the UK can't think of a stallion offering such value to commercial breeders.

I was happy to see him at 6. I think they need to be quite fruity and hope that that keeps the book of a managable size and quality

Hi Prima, can't exactly reveal my source (although it's an impeccable one closely involved with the horse), but 5K is the figure quoted and fair play to them I say - I think he's still good value at that.

Johnny M,
Agree with your points, amazes me some needed convincing I could see his potential I have sent him a nice young multiple winning mare who is from a top class and very current family so I am hoping for a colt.I am so pleased for his connections.5k very attractively priced reckon his book quality will improve again,a hot sire and getting hotter!

The crazy thing about this Prima is that there are stallions whose first crop are running this year (see other thread) who will quite probably command a higher fee than Monsieur Bond in 2012, and won't represent anything close to the value MB offers.

That's true Johnny M,the old saying 'There's none so blind as though that will not see'springs to mind.

will this will help misu bond to get some better mares?

I'm not blind, as I can certainly see that Monsieur Bond has managed just 3 stakes winners from his first 4 crops!

He's popular now, but my poor eyesight doesn't allow me to see exactly how he'll be diddling in 2 years time.

I must admit I still get a bit wobbly when I think of that 1st crop which were presumably conceived from useful mares, probably better than those he's had subsequently (excepting this season praps)

Still agreed, lots to like, but he's not a slam dunk despite all said on here!

I think it can only help truehoncho,moving him will really raise his profile.He is a great looking individual so strong and when using this sort of cheap sire the most important thing is he gets such fantastic looking sorts as we all know a good looker will always find a new home.A stakes winning precocious son of Danehill Dancer the same cross as Alfred Nobel for a song can't be bad.Standing at Norton Grove can only be a big plus for Misu Bond as breeders looking at Monsieur Bond can see Misu and I doubt anyone will not like him once they see him.If breeders gave this stallion a chance I really do think they would be delighted with the stock.They sold so well last year and have sold very well so far this year and with the support of Reg Bond behind him and now at Norton Grove he is imo a stallion likely to go forward,personally I like both the Bond stallions but I think Misu is the best looking of the two,their trainer Bryan Smart regarded Misu as the best of the two.

potentialmillionaire     20 Sep 11 20:01 
I'm not blind, as I can certainly see that Monsieur Bond has managed just 3 stakes winners from his first 4 crops!

That's very true but it is not the whole picture, what he is showing with those results is he is very capable of upgrading average mares,as we always point out on here most stallions don't make it.Standing from the off at such a low fee he was never really going to get the sort of mare that would stand a chance of him going sky high,breeders looked at him from a commercial point of view in the fact he was a new precocious son of Danehill Dancer and used him 1st and 2nd season then backed off him (like we all seem to do with this sort)but he has surprised most breeders, incl myself, that he is very capable of getting a classy GR horse that's tough and the most important thing is they win and at GR1 level.
Trainers seem to like them as his sales show,I do take the point about how he may be seen in 2 years time and who knows......no one really as in that time plenty of the other sires who atm look attractive may have nose dived by then.But at least his book size and quality have been moving in the right direction, which is not the case with plenty of others.

There are always going to be if's and but's with any sire, esp so in this bracket. And that is what needs to be kept in mind, we are talking about bargain basement fees, they are such for a reason. To judge fairly we need to look at him in line with his contemporaries, what sire in the same 5k-and-under bracket has a similar profile both at the sales and on the racetrack?  The only other one I can think of is Firebreak, but he isn't and never has been as commercial as MB. Also his book sizes have been small. MB profits from his 100+ books and the fact that his stock do go on, leading to lots of runners to cover the gaps from lower numbers. Firebreak just doesn't have the ammo to get winners week in week out but that doesn't alter his ability to get a good one inc GR1's. Can anyone think of any others?

I agree with your post Prima, after all it's a very rariefied group those that start from nothing and appear to have potential.

I think at a real cheap price Bertolini, Kheleyf, Captain Rio, Elnadim and Big Bad Bob have merit.

Obviously 3 of them are pretty exposed and only K and BBB have the sort of possibility for growth that M B has. B CR and E are worthy though with the very real chance of a speedy winner.

However the hardy popular sprint stallions need to have a shot at a few good horses every year to make them worth a go, otherwise youth and under exposure is a better bet.

Actually on a real cheap trip, and we've missed 1st season sadly, I am still keen on Helvellyn. Everyone who has seen him has liked him which is a strong place to start and I understand he ended up covering 90 mares. That is more than looked likely after a low key lateish launch and an unknown stud which again reflects well.

I did see Helvellyn this year at Tatt's stallion parade held at the Feb sale and I too thought he was a nice sort,was told he had 50 booked by then and I think I'm right in saying the girl who has him is David Redvers ex stud groom,cant bring to mind her name but I know her face.I also was told that in some way Trickledown stud are involved too (was told Paul Thorman owns him)but not sure if that's true,maybe you can confirm that I guess you know for sure.
I do know a breeder who got him for 1.5k so that's worth a shout,he was a good runner winning the Coventry is a great race to win but I'm not sure I'd want a son of Ishiguru but saying that he's not a disaster and comes from the best sire line  and for me I'm not mad on greys...........funny really when you think about it[;)]If I sent him one imo the mare would need a strongish page behind her one with a sniff of BLK type close up that way at his fee reckon it would be worth it,this type of stallion for me would be a waste of time sending a moderate mare to unless she was by a hot stallion and got good sorts,as having a moderate sire behind him can be detrimental to him overall as he is always going to be a son of a poor sire of sires,mind you Firebreak has pulled it off so perhaps Helvellyn can too.Did you send him one Pot M?

Prima, I'll take a few of those cruddy greys off your hands. I can't bear the thought of you choking on your cornflakes when one walks past your breakfast room window

I think Helvellyn is firmly on the Thorman/Redvers axiom, but I don't know exactly how it works.
Obviously his pedigree doesn't give great hope for an evenly stamped set of 1st foals, but if he manages it I think he could build up a head of steam at the sales with his 1st crop.

Didn't use him but I would have liked to if I'd had the right mare.

potentialmillionaire     21 Sep 11 22:42 
Prima, I'll take a few of those cruddy greys off your hands. I can't bear the thought of you choking on your cornflakes when one walks past your breakfast room window

Well if you do want one Pot M we have a nice grey filly going to Book 1 at Tatt's..........its a free country please have a go I'd be delighted if you got her then we could have that glass of champagne!

and yes I agree with Redvers/Thorman working together I too could see his first crop selling well......or seem to!

potentialmillionaire     20 Sep 11 20:01 
I'm not blind, as I can certainly see that Monsieur Bond has managed just 3 stakes winners from his first 4 crops!

Just out of interest Pot M take a peek at the success of hot sire Acclamation in terms of stakes winners from his first few crops 1st 3 stakes winners,2nd just one! 3rd and 4th None and standing for 9k and his 5 stakes winners this year were all conceived at 30k...........its not just stakes winners that makes a stallion popular its the all important perception of success,Acclamation has it and Monsieur Bond is fast gaining it!

Acclamation with 5 gp winning 2yos, at Grade 1 tracks this year is an absolute bombshell!

As you say Prima, with no stakes winners from those intermediate crops he was certainly running on empty in my humbles and it was most certainly goodwill that kept him functioning commercially.

Seems a shame if I buy a nice filly off you this year with all the money I've got in my trouser pockets right now, you'll end up spending all the proceeds on a bottle of Tatts champagne

I shall wish you a slightly more lucrative week [;)]

Incidentally whilst on the subject of stallion perceptions, having a small interest in HRE I was a bit miffed to see him beaten into 2nd in the Cheveley Park the other day.
If I ever get my hands on those responsible for the winner . . .

I do hope Pot M your trouser pockets are bigger and deeper than mine if I need to rely on only what you can fit inside!but if they are then yeah we can drink a glass of Tatt's champagne if you like,but please put on a BIG pair as I need a lucrative week.
As for the Cheveley Park the other day......I wondered if you would notice[;)]I'll look over my shoulder when walking down some dark ally!Didn't she do well!

I'm always delighted for the connections of a big race winner. I am sure you like me would be delighted if you were to breed the winner of a race with such history attatched.

Great timing for the connections to enable them to strut around at the sales with a sexy sales pitch!

Breeding any winner is great Pot M,and I'm sure that filly's connections are delighted with the result none more so than her breeder,and as for strutting around at the forthcoming sales,well sexy yes but no doubt modest too about achievements(not modest in my personal appraisal mind)!...........as if.Have you anything for Dec' sales later this year?

False modesty is ofcourse always more attractive I suppose. But nothing to be modest about!

I suppose I have to try my luck in Dec, yes.

I'm slightly faultable I fear so it'll just depend on everyone's interpretation. Some improvement possible and some things I've definitely got right so we'll see.

What have you got colts and or filly's and how many?

Don't want to give too many clues on here so I'll stick to just admitting to colts!

Are the vibes good at Kill?

That's fine I will look later on nearer the time,and yes the vibes look promising!

Excellent!

I can confirm his fee for 2012 is indeed 5K AND for that price, you also get a free nom to Misu Bond.

Do you have to take it though! ?

i don't know about everyone else but i think thats a great deal. it should get some numbers on the ground for misu bond, which can only be good for him (i think!!).