Multiplex

I liked him when I looked at him,reminds me a lot of his sire,but can't help in thinking he got plenty of mares due to the fact he is a cheap son of Danehill.Those mares were a very mixed bunch a lot of jump mares included in his books,some leading UK jumps breeders sent him mares so I see his future as a classy jump sire or duel purpose one.
With him you would have an after market with his stock and with his page there was always going to be a chance he would of made it on the flat,he is not a write off I can see him getting say a 90 rated runner who will make a turn at the HIT sale going on to the jumps game.I know a couple of breeders who got him for 1k this year,worth a chance with a moderate mare with an eye to go hurdling.Similar to Tobougg perhaps.

PD

its not really a 2 year old page is it? would breeders (or more to the point agents and trainers) forgive him a moderate start?

he has such nice breeding that if you got a nice filly it may be worth keeping especially if you got him for the sort of fee you mentioned.

IMHO....
if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Although its tempting to pay very little for nominations, you'll never get any sort of quality. After all, quality is what the game is about.

I do believe in getting the best deal possible, but I view that as paying 4k for a stallion who stands at 6k, rather than scratching around the floor.

thats a fair comment Wilycayote. The reality is though with a very small breeder like myself, it may sometimes be worth taking a chance with a cheap one if you think it may turn a profit.

I have a small budget, which means that if I do use a very cheap one it means I can spend a bit more on a better mare. I know you will probably suggest I spend all my budget on the best mare, but all eggs in one basket is every bit as risky as going to a cheap stallion.

I am trying to find a good alue stallion and do the best I can with a moderate mare and I have found this forum really good for that. I have just been looking at Captain Gerrard but I am not too struck on his breeding, what do you think?

Captain Gerrard is tiny plus a very disappointing final season put me off using him.  If it wasnt for Oasis Dream no one would mention him.

truehoncho,

I think for the money you could do a lot worse than Multiplex,but have in the back of your mind he may not really make it on the flat.That said as you point out he is from a very high class family one that does not shout 2 y'olds so at a price I might be inclined to hedge my bets and take a chance,he does get really nice sorts that are so strong ( a good looking yearling will almost always sell).His stock from what we have seen so far look the type that should make up into better 3 y'olds so as I said above he is not a write off,with him I think trainers and agents will have this in the back of their minds I would expect a few of his will sell well this autumn.
With regards to keeping a filly I'd only do that if she had a good enough page.Using cheap stallions is a gamble but it can pay off when it does its a better feeling than any of the others.

thanks for the comments.

PD

you cant helpbut like his breeding at this level and i will keep you comments in mind. I do have a cloudings mare very closely related to Teeton Mill and if i can get him for 2k or less I may go that way.

Littleun

I thimk I agree. Also I emailed for a proper confirmation pic with no success, whic is a shame because i may have got a good deal for CG and Multiplex.

Captain Gerrard is fine don't worry too much we have a nice foal of his here,its very nice better than I was expecting.3rd season mind!

TrueH
I have only seen 1 foal by C.Gerrard, and therefore cannot judge him in any way on that, but I would be worried at how small the stallion is. Not my cup of tea in terms of confirmation, although I am a big fan of Oasis Dream, but thats not enough to use him.

I think his foal sales will shed some light, but it seems he is probably a bit risky for 3rd season.

Much seems to made of the fact he is not the biggest stallion,BUT remember he is a son of Oasis Dream(smallish) who is in turn a son of Green Desert.Stallions from this line as a rule are on the small side,3rd season risk....yes but if he does well you could always sell the foal providing its a colt.£1.5/2k max next year.

will be interesting to see where cg ends up .remember he stands in australia as well so he will have two first season crops.he was very quick and should have plenty of early speed due to his size and race record.

With showcasing possibly available for good value in 2012, i think he may be a better bet than CG. I suppose it will boil downto money. I have 3 mares to cover (1 NH) and about a 10k budget. I think Multiplex is growing on me.

At the stage that you would poss' use either Captain Gerrard or Showcasing,I think I'd go for Showcasing as a 2nd season sire is a better bet than a 3rd season one.Captain Gerrard was the better runner of the two and both have plenty enough class on their pages to appeal.Showcasing will have the benefit of Juddmonte behind him they have sent him some mares so that's a little bit of hope for his first runners.
Price wise next year for Showcasing I was thinking you would want to be paying about 3.5/4k max. But It might be a struggle to get him for that you may have to deal to get what you want.I'd guess Richard Kent will welcome you with open arms if you send him 2 mares!

Agree that Showcasing is the better bet 2nd season, and also could be significant if Juddmonte kept an interest in him, which ive also heard. Bit surprised you think CG was the better on the track as SH won a Gr2 pretty easily.

I tend to avoid the temptation of a great deal by sending 2 mares to the same stallion, ive regretted it in the past. Prefer to do a deal to send two mares to different stallions at the stud if poss. Not easy though.

In that price range I'd agree and not send two mares to the same stallion.When I said R.Kent will welcome you with open arms I meant poss' 1 to CG and another to Multiplex.

Still think CG was the better runner,ran and won more times than SC,including winning the Palace House beating Sakhee's Secret who as you know went on to win the July Cup,I know his form tailed off after but I think that's how sons of Oasis Dream seem to go either just pure 2y'olds who don't train on or late maturing sorts like Aqlaam and Midday.Reckon the mighty John Warren knew this when he sold Approve,just the typical sort who would not train on.

Jeez, i'd have had showcasing as the better horse out of those two tbh, he just didn't seem to be that interested at 3 rather than not train on imo, ran a fine race fto behind SSB

Again many thanks for the responses, i have been away for a few days hence the delay in getting back to you.

As i have said I do have a NH mare i could go to Multiplex with and then deal with CG. I also have a mare that may go well with Sakhees secret and then get a deal with Showcasing. The latter deal will obviously be more expensive but may come in under my budget.

Since I have been chatting on this thread it is becoming very obvious that the choice of value stallions in England is extremely limited. After the handfull we have discussed on here you would have to spend a lot of money on horses that are only questioanbly better.

What's people views on Virtual?  One on my list for next year and will be checking out his foals latter in the year. He would suit my Inchinor mare, who as a broodmare sire is getting some good ones this year. It would be a change in tactics for me sending mare down to one of the big studs.

I know people on here have used Virtual littleun so I shall go steady!

He really wasn't a top class racehorse, and he has confirmation points to be wary of. He has plenty of Pivotal in him but also a fair dash of Exit To Nowhere.

For people that have used him 1st year then good luck to them. I love a 1st season sire so perhaps he will be the one. However, I'd want to be wanting  love those 1st crop foals enough to sh*g them myself before risking him 2nd

Back to the drawing board maybe

PotM,

Hi There,just to pick up on your comments about virtual, on exit to knowhere,I've recently bought a 3yofilly by him,a wee bit concerned on your points about this fellow,can you expand please, have to say my filly is I think pretty nice no apparent conformation issues ( that are obvious)

midas7, Exit To Nowhere is not seen as a particularly positive asset in the pedigree of a commercial flat bred yearling. He is a big horse whose stock take too long to mature for the fashionistas.

Obviously having just bought a 3yo that needn't concern you! Good luck with your filly. Is she for the jumping game?

P.s. If your filly is a potential flat broodmare then I hope you manage to sharpen her up by hook or by crook! Good Luck

Littleun2,Are you thinking of your grey mare? What is it that has made Virtual stand out for her? IMO Virtual would be on dodgy ground 3rd time.Only covered 70 first time around and only about 55 were outside mares.Big deals were available to get those in. His close relation Iceman has been disappointing, Frederick Engels aside, he has got nothing of note. Virtual is huge and as Chris Richardson says himself the hocks are right out behind him. Pivotal,Exit to Nowhere, Shadeed, not going to be little are they.... or early come to that. If you are looking at a 3rd season horse to get a deal then Captain Gerrard might be a better fit for the grey mare. He isn't big and should get something that looks early/racy for you.Forget about his form tailing off, just look at the fact he was a good 2yo by a red hot sire.Broodmare sire being Soviet Star far far more attractive than jump sire E T N
One other quick question Littleun2, what early mating ideas do you have for the dam of Pint Size? With his profile and selling commercially then you could do a lot worse than Monsieur Bond

Hi Prima, my grey mare gets athletic foals not racy looking and perfomances of foals on course suggest milers. Virtual looked like would add a bit of bulk and I liked the nick with Inchinor.  I dont like Captain Gerrard and wont be using him I try to bred horse to be successful rather than commercial although that's always in back of mind.  The dam of Pint Size is 21/22 now and we didnt cover her last year, she is very well in herself this year but we will probably retire her, she how her filly by Misu Bond sells, she has a real nice filly foal at foot by Milk It Mick

I dont know the quality of mares that CG has got, but just talking to small breeders in my area (scotland) threy seem to think his foals are good enough. I think with him ( a bit like misu bond) he will not need to get too many 2 year old winners to be seen as a relative success.

if he gets one a bit above average i think demand for his yearlings will continue, espacially in the north.

Hi Pot M,

Thanks for the info ref Exit To Knowhere, the filly is NH through and through on the dams side,interesting what you say about the stallion being on the big side,my filly is good size/plenty bone and depth about her,so hopefully she will be fine for my requirements

Littleun2,I'd be very surprised if Virtual gets stock with a bit of bulk...........size yes but ask yourself does that mare want a big boat put on her?I don't know but for me he's one sire I'd steer well clear of,can only think his stock will be very backward.Unless you intend to race all the resulting foals out of her and that can become very expensive try to select sires that would enhance your mare both in terms of commercialness and not least physically too.We always try to have both in mind when selecting stallions as if we can't sell for what we think they are worth then we will race them,but the first thing to get right is the stallion we all need the money after all!If I'm right that mare is from Dead Certain's family she was such a good early sort I'd want to stick with the speed and preciosity of that family,Virtual I would think will stand a high chance of slowing the foal down.Mind you saying that has the Inchinor nick worked before with that mare or her dam?You seem keen to use the same again.

PD

have you used Multiplex yourself and if so what are the foals like. I know you used Misu Bond and were happy enough.

do you think Multiplex would suit a light framed filly with an american pedigree (family of casual lies)?

truehoncho,
No I have not used Multiplex myself and in fact I've never used Misu Bond either,my daughter used Misu Bond and you are right the foal the mare had is superb everyone who has seen it likes it very much.Speaking to that sires owner recently I understand they have a few that show promise I also understand they are refreshing his profile including standing him in a new location.

I have seen plenty of stock by Multiplex,each time I look at them I can only be impressed with the type he gets they are all very strong sorts he really seems to 'stamp' them.If your mare is the light type then I'd think you could do a lot worse than Multiplex.To my eye he has an awful lot of Danehill about him and has had enough mares since retiring to make him viable for the near future.truehoncho I think without doubt you will get a great deal if you do decide to use both the Mickley stallions,any stallion is a risk but for the money I'd take the chance.

Misu Bond is moving :( I was deinfately sending one of my mares too him.  He was only 25 miles away from me.

I think I've ruled out Virtual would rather use Firebreak after reviewing his races etc, this would save me a few grand too.  I'm looking forward to 8th September to see how her first Misu Bond colt has developed.  I have tried to get a piccie of my Misu Bond filly but nothing decent to post.

Littleun2,
Yes I think its more of a case that he has already moved,and not so far either so maybe you could still use him,standing in Yorkshire for next season,I can see the logic as he should get some mares off the back of his owners other stallion who has done so well both this and last season.
Firebreak would imo be a better choice than Virtual as he has already shown he is very capable of getting GR class runners and with his largest crop of decentish mares ahead of you its not such a bad choice,after all they are all a big gamble but he does get racy sorts,if he was by anything other than Charnwood Forest something like Danehill Dancer,Polar Falcon or Green Desert he would be at Dalham Hall of Kildangan as he was very classy and tough and has done well from very limited chances.

or and not of![smiley:crazy]

Littleun you seem to like a gamble!

I thought you were quite keen on the hope that Virtual might bring you some 'bulk'?
Firebreak is possibly the 'lightest' sire around.                                                 Were you reviewing the races of his stock or were you reviewing Firebreak's races as he must be judged on his stud record now. He certainly can get a decent horse, but his percentages aren't great though, but for a real cheap punt he certainly deserves a look.

thanks for the reply PD and unless something unexpected happens i think a decision has been made. I assume misu bond is at norton grove with richard which is a good decision. they were excellent with me using monsieur bond this year (another PD recommendation).

i do have a mare that would suitr him but i think i may get a good deal now with captain gerrard if i use multiplex.

thaks all for the replies

PT I used Firebreak with another mare this year she is all weather specialist and much bigger framed mare.  I dont think my Inchinor mare will be suited or she would have went to Firebreak and my other mare to Misu Bond.  My next hope is Dick Turpin stands in the UK for decent price!  I dont mind taking a gamble as bottom end of the market but so far think I'm doing ok.