Dream Ahead

Potm

I should think they will be absolutely over the moon. This will mean that they will continue to attract a non stop flow of bids for the crocks and rejects distantly related to some middle distance plodder that slogged his way to a group 1 win, which if it had been put in a sale by a small unknown stud would have never got a viewing let alone a bid.

Ironic that Diktat, who I always had a great respect for, is now in Spain. Will this horse (his highest ever rated offspring) bring him back to UK or Ireland? I was really impressed yesterday. The first really exciting European sprinter for a while. Can't see him being as good over further than 6.

Pleased for the horse and trainer and hope he continues to show well.  However, Sat Nmkt was a funny day, the effect on several races of ground variations was huge and he raced almost exclusively on the 'fast' strip.  Clearly so did a few others but I'm wary.  The Superlative looked a poor race too, Lilbourne Lad, Power and Fred Eng look the best so far with none guaranteed to get a mile.  I'll probably pass on a Diktat stallion ta.

Diktat got a ton of winners, but I can't see him coming back anytime soon.

You also get a lot of pedigree with him, so I wouldn't necessarily let him put me off Dream Ahead.

I don't like the family - I always think of it as Genesis Greens as it happens - but it does keep throwing up a useful horse.

I would reserve judgement on the horse having never seen him but he could be a 1st season job?

I cant help thinking yet again Darley have done Diktat no favours by using loads of dreg mares with him,they did the same with Byron and Noverre,it always floods the market with lots of rubbish and only seems to dilute any chance of success,but the fact is Diktat has a lovely pedigree plenty on here seem to think Cape Cross is a great stallion and what Diktat has shown is he is very capable of getting a good runner,don't forget he also got Rajeem winner of the Falmouth so I see no reason not to use Dream Ahead if and when he goes to stud and remember he has a very fast and classy page to boot,I did take a look at him yesterday and I think he's not a bad sort,I am wondering where he will go and was thinking perhaps France or the English National Stud standing for about say 6/8k that price because of nothing more than having Diktat as his sire,what do breeders think?I like Pot M may take a closer look 1st time,reckon there could be better prospects later this year but plenty not so good ones as well!

Do the breeders on here think that Dream Ahead will race as a 4yo? If he was mine and he won another Group 1 at 6 furlongs I might be tempted to draw stumps in case next years 3yo sprinters are better.

Yes Prima, god help you if you become the Darley dealing sire, Tobougg and Markofesteem were two others, and you end up being the freebies given as 'reward' for putting together a package of mares with them.
The real kiss of death, but it's hard to know exactly why. I remember so clearly meeting my mate who I always bought my foals with, after our 1st day at Goffs one year. As always the excitement lay in the 1st crop foals and we both came back and agreed that against all preconceptions we were flabergasted to like the same set. It was Danehill Dancer and whilst I know he is exceptional it just shows, it is possible to buck the crap mares/crap goodwill scenario!

I see Dream Ahead retiring this year as it's quite possible to take in nearly all the top sprints in one year so if he annexes a few I'm not sure there's much to be gained by trying again next year.
However if more strength guarantees more versatility next year then maybe not.

With Coolmore making a play for ill bred Tagula's maybe ill bred Diktats will be next on the list? I think an 8ish fee is quite poss and I agree National Stud could be a goer and I think they could do a lot worse - given they struggle to do a lot better! The next Shaamit. . .

Although I can see why, I am still a little surprised with the reaction to Dream Ahead as a sire prospect. Yes Diktat is a question mark for him but there is a lot else to like and the sire isn't so bad really.He is not as outcrossy as Paco Boy nor as light on the distaff side as RVW. He has more fashion on the page than CC and is an all together more likely 2yo getter than Notnowcato (even with that horse's Inchinor over Cad Gen immediate pedigree)
With Sadlers Green Desert and even Cad Gen all in the first 3 gens then surely this is not a 'unusual' type? Warning was a Ch 2yo and got some good ones and the family behind Diktat isn't shabby.Personally I think he could be a nice fit for those early crop cheap DD mares. Or Danehill heavy types who dont quite merit a Galileo covering [;)]Smallish OD fillies could be another possible.

Prima, is he the big strong type he appears on the telly? That white face makes him look a bit coarse but actually is his head better than that?

He certainly has some popular names theough his pedigree but in slightly unusual places - perhaps  allowing the sort of mating patterns that appeals to Slick'n'Smooth perhaps?

I've used Sakhee's Secret before so I'm not too frightened of his type!

Yes Pot M he is that sort,I don't dislike him you can see his sire in him a bit,you perhaps could take the view he's a bit on the leg.But saying that he has enough bone and seems a good walker I could see him getting nice sorts,imo about the only thing he has in common with Sakhee's Secret is both won the July Cup and both are by unfashionable sires,Dream Ahead a much better runner very high class and precocious.
The white face.....no he is not a plain looking beast in fact I'd say he has a classy look about him,only last night we were talking about this colt with a few friends for drinks including a couple of stallion stud owners they all said they would love to have him but that he will be expensive to buy,the consensus was he'd be a very hot prospect.As I keep saying MOST stallions fail but the ones who make it tend to sire runners similar to their family's class or not,this colt is from a fast early and high class family,as an example Notnowcato by a fast sire his dams sire is a speedy classy sort,a lot to offer people thought everyone piled in BUT No can do's family is slow and late maturing he was never going to be any good from the start results are loud and clear.Dream Ahead offers a lot more if only breeders could see beyond Diktat I certainly can.

Poor old Inchinor. He was a bit Danetimey in his way. Not as precocious but on the up and popular getting tough types before meeting a premature Waterloo.

Unfortunately as you say Prima that wasn't a good enough reason to use the Skanky Notnow (surely well named!) I remember seeing him out of training at the Hon. property developer's place and thinking what a brilliant walker he was - too good I'm afraid for me, they don't have the strength to change gear in my book, that type.

You only get one July Cup winner a year so in the grand scheme of things, two 3yo winners, both potential sires by unfashionable sires have a pretty big link! Both strong types who walk well too.
Precocity, D A, but page I give it to S.S for a lovely deep American family.

I'm interested in your drinks party as I was beginning to think that an 8k fee could be a bit modest and your chums perhaps confirm this. How much more does the horse need to be before he mirrors Starspangledbanner maybe?

As I've said before you do get a ton of pedigree with Diktat so that would certainly allay some fears for me. But I suppose you could've said that about Mull of Kintyre on top of the Supersire Araafa

"Precocity, D A, but page I give it to S.S for a lovely deep American family."

But Pot M, are you not breeding and selling in the UK market? US pedigrees are one thing, but I would prefer a UK page for a UK sale and the watchword for any sales type is precocity as I would have thought you as a commercial breeder would agree.

"I'm interested in your drinks party as I was beginning to think that an 8k fee could be a bit modest and your chums perhaps confirm this. How much more does the horse need to be before he mirrors Starspangledbanner maybe?"

Well when I asked one of the Stallion guys if he was going to get him he replied that he couldn't afford him( If he can't we are all in trouble..!) and what fee would he need to stand him at to recoup the outlay needed to secure him. His point was that the 'Racing Guys' have deeper pockets and can outbid a stud who's outlay is constrained by the  likely income from a credible fee level.So perhaps the retirement of DA is not a foregone conclusion after all.

Mull of Kintyre was never a goer IMO (that where US pedigrees get you [;)])and add that to sister of my arch nemesis Pivotal then Araafa was no surprise.. However there is always Mullionmileanhour to fill the gap of mediocrity!

Interesting. I wondered who had bought all the Mullionmileanhour nominations. I tried to do a block booking and was told he was full. Well I wish you well .

If D A is currently thought to be a hot topic then I suspect Mr Simcock might be fielding calls from a Mr Redvers perhaps?

If that's the case then Pot M being so close you will already be booking next years nom' right now!

I'm afraid I won't be able to book anything untill Dec. sales are out of the way, so it'll be the dregs for me or the massive book types I guess

Apologies for backtracking, but comparing Sak Secret with Dream Ahead on looks is like comparing Brad Pitt with Peter Crouch. (There's a reason he made $11,000 as a yearling).

Seperate point; Will winning the Maurice De Gheest help his value as a stallion? for me, it is a second division Gr1.

Wilycayote, where has anybody compared SS to DA on looks? In fact I will quote myself " about the only thing he has in common with Sakhee's Secret is both won the July Cup and both are by unfashionable sires," SS is a good looking type that perhaps should have been more precocious than he wa based on his physical type. DA is almost the opposite. He is a bigger type,as has been said more like his own sire, who wouldn't be as impressively muscular as his precocity would imply but he is not an awful specimen. $11,000 price tag is an easy stick to beat him with but I cant really imagine a Diktat making more than that in the US. Better surely to judge him by his £36,000 breeze up price. Again remember he's a Diktat when Diktat has just been thrown out.

With you on his yearling price Prima. No one in the U.S. would want him with both sire and dam as they were and when you are looking for a potential horse to spend a ton of money in importation costs
on, well who would?

Tony O'Callaghan stuck his neck out and well done him and Barberini (If memory serves)

I agree Wily, not really remembering the programme book off hand but the M de G is not over burdened with prestige. However you get to say 4 time G.1 winner instead of 3!

The Maurice De Gheest may not be the strongest GR1 but I doubt any of you would be so quick to point out that fact if you owned the dam of the winner particularly if you were selling her yearling this year.Pot M's right duel GR1 2 y'old duel GR1 3 y'old does have a certain ring to it!

Its in the book as 3 grp1 and you cant dispute he is high quality, but cant help feeling this is overboard praise.  6f sprints this year look ropy, beating hitchens & bated breath running on the best ground, getting 6lbs isn't Black Caviar territory.

It was the manner of the victory that impressed me. I had backed BB and DA and was willing BB to hang on from the cavalry that looked like swallowing him up a furlong out with all the riders working very hard. Then I noticed Hayley sitting there with nowhere to go and wondered if DA would get a run. When he did, it made the others look very ordinary (which maybe they are but they are the best around in Europe on paper) The 3yo allowance is a factor but few other 3yo's have run well against their elders so far this year and if Frankel does the business at Goodwood, it would add to the view that these 2 are very good and a long way ahead of the rest of their generation as the official ratings suggest.

Maybe 'we' can all calm down a bit now then.  Deacon Blue now that was impressive - stallion in the making....10k.  Oh wait a minute, not got the balls for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/keenelandfan#p/search/0/yw1NP-3GUwY

Flicking through Keeneland's website today I came across this video of Dream Ahead's sale as a yearling.

Not the greatest video as he has a lip chain on which stopped him moving much.

Seems like a lot of horse for the money though, then as well as now!

i see dram ahead is going to be retired at end of the season

anyone know where hes going? darley?

what price do we guess he will be? my guess 8k

i dont think i would use him as hes just so big with a massive head.

I dont think Darley would want him after standing Diktat. Dont think you're far off with the covering fee though, my guess would be 7K.

Not sure if studs will be falling over themselves to stand him though. National Stud perhaps?

I seem to have lost that Keeneland video and with the retirement of the horse I'm a bit miffed!

I think that even Diktat won't bring a 128 rated 2yo who has won 4 Gp.1s, has an all sprint pedigree and is retiring at the absolute zenith of  his commerciality down to 7k !

I would need to see the horse, but it is a fact that there doesn't seem to be a lot around for retirement in 2011 and if I like him then 7k will suit me very much thank you.

At 7k he'd also suit me too!I just wonder with this colt could anyone else see him staying in NMKT? He's not such a bad looking horse I sort of liked him and I like his page a lot,a classy page full of speed.
I may be wrong but I think over here Diktat could hold a few breeders off, I can also see him being very popular over in the UK and with his connections standing their other star Shaammit at the National Stud I agree its feesable but I was thinking of Cheveley Park they need a new stallion SOME of there sires are starting to look old hat SOME are now on the decline.With them wanting a precocious fast sire then having bad luck with Kingsgate Native and with the Thompson's spending capacity I wonder,but if he does end up there I'd expect to pay more than 7k after all David Thompson needs the money!

Good point Prima.

Kyllachy, Dutch Art, Kingsgate Native.

I can see next to no difference in the profile of those guys at retirement to Dream Ahead right now. Other than ofcourse their race records which were inferior.

I can see Dream Ahead floating around the 10 - 12 mark, and I know an Irish/European set up that might bung the Thompsons a few quid to help pay for a nameplate perhaps

I think a few will have a pitch for him, National, Highclere, Whitsbury, Newsells. I think it's quite encouraging that we have a few independent possibilities in such a market.

I've decided that I'm not going to get hung up on the Diktat thing as after all if he was an Oasis Dream you'd be looking at a 20 k fee anyway so it's horses for courses really. Diktat is an ordinary sire but he's not Al Hareb or Mystiko and he packs quite a pedigree so it's not the end of the world - provided an Oasis Dreamlike fee isn't expected!

I get where you are with Cheveley Prima, although perhaps they are a little stronger right now than meets the eye. Kyllachy is the same as ever, Dutch Art has started well, Medicean is no more dull than usual and Pivotal's decline seems to be relatively slow. All a bit ordinary perhaps but not terminal. And with the quality and petite Virtual on board . . .

Pot M,I was thinking along the lines like you of 10/12k for him also,personally I think he will be popular we'd use him I reckon.
Oh yes you asked about a certain horse who was sold as a foal the other day............well sometimes if they don't look so good as foals and aren't such good walkers the vendor could just sell as a foal.........thing is mind even some major players get it wrong from time to time,I'm saying nothing except......................................................................... HILL

I did put a TIGER in front of HILL[:x]

Listen, the vendors who sold that horse covered their costs on a foal that didn't walk.

That's not a dodgy decision. When would you be disappointed with that?

Those that sell for 1/4 the stud fee, now perhaps that ain't great. But then again, to top the sales . . .

Remarkable Pot M and at that price!Still we all live in hope.........and all get it wrong too.

Well Pot M is now possible that Dream Ahead may like you suggest head off to Whitsbury as they have sent Refuse to Bend to France...........not such a bad idea when you think about it.

Great decision for R to B.

I didn't even know that he was still owned by Darley, so that once and for all puts me clear of any Whitsbury connection!

I think someone will have to dig quite deep for Dream Ahead and I am guessing that he may be a tad pricier than the level Whitsbury would be looking to play at?

my guess is dream ahead has been bought by darley and will stand at whitbury-if he turns out any good he will move.

cv