Sires in Form June

I think everybody appreciates the effort you put into this,but it doesn`t seem to tie-up with the RP stats,where even on numbers a few stayers are doing OK. Apart from a couple who won over a mile I think the rest in your table were sprinters. Very depressing.

Fair enough. It`s not just Galileo and Montjeu ( who doesn`t get that many winners by this time of year) but Dansili is another one who is absent from your tables.
I`m really not having a go. I am just trying to sort out some apparent discepancies for my own interest.

RP numbers are UK & Ireland from 5 April turf + AW.

The sires with runners in the winter AW from Jan 1st to April are higher than RP as they dont count the wins during that period hence Kyllachy so low on their list.

The stats are indeed ridiculously confused
Tbh I did know the RP stats were for the turf season ,but had forgotten yours were for the cal;endar year. Hence some of my confusion.
The sire stats have traditionally been for GB AND Ireland for no obvious reason. Years ago Timeform started doing them for GB only in their Annuals at least. The whole thing is a mess.
A few years ago Falbrav was quoted as a first season sire when he had already had a crop in Japan and indeed Cumani had had a runner over here from that first crop.
There is no doubt the a/w has helped messed things up but it`s the sort of issue RFC should be getting their heads round rather than promoting deals for drunken yobs.
My original love was cricket to a large extent because of the stats being so tightly controlled. I got into HR at 12 because there was so much info as well as finding the sport visually the most exciting. It sickens me there is no attempt to market those two aspects but just the peripherals.

I have admired your efforts for some time sageform and have often attempted to fashion a betting strategy around stallion statistics and other records.

Some of the ideas I've tricked around with are:
Taking stallions with highest winners/runners ratios
Sires by highest sales figures (frightening the number of expensively bought flops)
Trainers with a particular preference for sires

Have you found a few angles that help? Otherwise the effort you make is questionnable (just to play devil's advocate)

Roodeye Queen 2.10 Nottingham a perfect example of what I mean. Low grade handicapper but tries and wins as the opposition all had a go but didn't have the resolution. Once again she drifted in the market. Amazing.

Cheveley Park should have you as official cheerleader (me too given my stock), always seemed bizarre to me they themselves dont bother racing any kyllachy colts - one in training in last few years...Penitent.  Hardly a disaster.  If you want hard knocking (value for money) horses you wouldnt look much further than Kyllachy or Acclamation.

We've been over this before PD - doesnt matter whether I quote you the median sales returns, the number of winners or wins per runner or whatever...you dont like Kyllachy.  Fine.  I wont even ask you to give me another less than 10k stallion with better stats for any of the above.

Third win for the top sire with Irrational at Hamilton. Missed that one as the fav looked good. You are all rightly looking for a value from your mares, I am looking for good priced winners.

Cheveley have a fantastic broodmare band. It wouldn't make much sense to dilute it by keeping lesser lights to race - colts or fillies. Ofcourse they are looking to breed stallions to stand, which is something Meon Valley wouldn't be about, that they don't keep Kyllachy colts to race perhaps adds to Prima Donna's argument quite eloquently maybe!

I always feel that he has been too expensive, just about every year he's been at stud he's been over the odds in my opinion. Mind you it's a criticism I have levelled many times on all of Cheveley's stallions. No doubt he's good to get you a multiple winner though.

I'll consider myself summarily dismissed to the lower handicapper league and doff my cap to the black-type only producers of the forum.

Pot M and yer ma,Whilst all the horses we breed  aren't black type we always aspire that they should be,hence why sires like Kyllachy for all that he gets winners he does not get BLK type,and for a sire standing at 8/10k his results on and off the course are not good enough to represent value for money.

Banter aside there's lots of ways to skin a cat and I think/know I can get a profit using Kyllachy so thats the end of the story really.  A debate on the buying motivation / expectations of owners & trainers at the £20-£50k level would be interesting.  I certainly dont think they're necessarily thinking black-type and I know for a fact that he's popular with lots of middle ranking trainers.  Hence the entirely respectable sales.

Yes Yer ma interesting for sure.

As I always think/say keeping the trainers happy/content is paramount. Kyllachy's ability to provide them with a winner that is easy to have around shouldn't be underestimated perhaps.

Obviously we all know what we like about the 1st season thing, the allure of the new, the next big thing. Statistically most sires fail though and even the blinkered trainers/agents can't totally be oblivious to that. But ofcourse they're all running from the last sire that offended them even though he might be compiling a great record at stud for other owner/trainers.

Your experiences with Kyllachy suggest he is keeping your clients happy and we often quote impressive stats on here which are derided by others as they don't necessarily translate into commercial success.

For me it's hard to not chase the next big thing and I'm always devising a mating to try and upgrade on the racetrack. But for a young mare I will give more thought to a safe but not spectacular type perhaps.

A solid sound colt for export is a contributary factor too maybe.

Dont get much of a chance to pat myself on the back but steak for tea as my Acclamation stakes double comes in.  Dont think we'll have trouble shifting our colts this year PotM.

BTW Sageform - RP has totally changed there stats and Kyllachy is now top by winners, havent worked out what the new rules are and obviously there are no explanatory notes.

Kyllachy now on 70 UK wins and 12 clear of Exceed and Excel on 58. In the money column, Galileo is surely past the post already and we now have two of his 3yo's who could be the best miler and the best 12 furlong horses in Europe if not the world.

roodee queen best money spinner around at the moment. kllachy is proving to be what i always thought top class. im new to this breeding side of things,

kyllachy is good stallion,i prefer the lower grade horses u make more money on them. group winners dont race often. if i was going to breed a horse, cant go much wrong with kyllachy. do you ever workout whats the best time of year for certain sires progeny. most winners in spring or ??

I have never disguised the fact that my stats are purely number of wins in UK. I make no allowance for number of runners and I am quite happy to agree that Galileo is the superior sire. I am just reporting my stats for those who are interested. Use of money won can distort sire and trainer tables