Bloodstock & Breeding
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15 Jun 11
16:00
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Date Joined:
17 Mar 10
Last year they retained Starspangledbanner here for no real gain.
With quarantine looming and a Southern hemisphere season impending, should he stay or should he go?
With quarantine looming and a Southern hemisphere season impending, should he stay or should he go?
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Carson reckons the first and the second will be very popular with breeders. But then again he is a compete idiot. That was a disaster for them and no amount of PR is going to make that Tatts Gold Cup win look any better than a Grp3. On the other hand, CC gotta be a £25k horse.
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i think go but they will keep him going like ssb.he looked heavy and sluggish.it was a disappointing run and will do stud value harm especially in nh.cc superstar now and looked great i think 20k like mastercraftsman due to his pedigree but he did look great so maybe more.
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I'd say John Magnier must have torn apart every piece of furniture in whatever private enclosure he is in at Ascot. He ain't worth what they paid for him now and they were already battling against the High Chap factor.
He is going to have to go out and look for the best now and beat them, he's not going to go after Canford and do they really want to beat Frankel with the Gallileo factor. its a mess, how is he to redeem himself? and I'd say he probably was a bit undercooked, but the second is a very good horse when fresh. Also, I think Murtagh would have won on him  |
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He wont get 1m4f in Europe me thinks, He's a big bull of a horse with what seems a grinding style, not sure about the action but BC Classic anyone?
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Testing
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Frankel/S Y T, both used at the wrong time, to mow down the pacemaker. F got away with it but Moore should learn, Queally seems to be a bit slow on that front.
I guess SYT was a bit short, as O'Briens do progress and he was probably believing his own hype that the horse could beat everything off 2 canters a day. |
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SYT is about 1/5 to beat rewilding in any other 10f G1. Terrible ride got it beat.
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I dont really agree with that - especially given later races more likely to be on softer ground. But even if that was the case since when was Rewilding the benchmark. Workforce annihilated him and his only other Grp 1 was beating Redwood. Happy to be proven incorrect but the Australian middle distance form doesnt stack up. They'll probably retreat to Ireland, win a tuppenny Grp2/3 and then hope nothing special turns up for the Champion Stakes.
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I'd say John Magnier must have torn apart every piece of furniture in whatever private enclosure he is in at Ascot. He ain't worth what they paid for him now and they were already battling against the High Chap factor. He is going to have to go out and look for the best now and beat them, he's not going to go after Canford and do they really want to beat Frankel with the Gallileo factor. its a mess, how is he to redeem himself?================================================= Im sure John thinks life's ending and that he was living on benefits with 10 kids in an inner city estate. To summarise; I'm sure he'll be just fine..  |
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No doubt they messed up big time on Wednesday but I still doubt if he is much better than the form there. To ride a dubious stayer like that was crazy and how he can win a King George or an Arc now that the opposition know how to beat him is beyond me. Ridden sensibly, he should be able to win any of the 10 furlong Group 1 races though.
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My view was different. Was impressed by rewilding who ran a blinder. Lightly raced horse and hopefully lots more to come. SYT still looks like a monster for me. Planteur and Twice over were plenty far back. Hope workforce team come and face SYT now and then we will have a cracker. A good win later in the season and everyone will forget about this run (I think he ran fine personally) just like workforce last season.
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Considering how the race was run, he did really well. The only 2 runners who were still galloping at the end were Rewilding and Sri Putra-the 2 that ignored the early daft gallop and paced the race correctly. Other yards now know that if you put in pacemakers and put stamina at a premium, you should beat SYT over 12 furlongs.
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Whatever happens here I dont think it will damage his main market in Australasia, that part of the world still think he can walk on water and there will be a demand for his offspring when they hit the sales there.
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Agree with jmc27's points,and yer ma's too.From what we all saw the other day he could be an unlucky runner this year just finding it a bit hard to win top class GR1s when he meets our top horses.
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Nothing wrong with sectionals Moore set seemingly either.
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If you lok at the comments from his runs in Australia Moore rode him the same way as he was down there. This suggests he was racing against much weaker horses similar to the listed class he faced in Ireland.
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Often these foreign runners look very impressive in there homeland only to be found wanting when they meet the best of both the UK and Ireland,I'm not for a second suggesting Rewilding is the best but if he can't beat him then can anyone see him beating the likes of Workforce?Even Twice Over would nail him that is if T O runs to his best.
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Whenever Rewilding has run fresh with bout a 6 week - 2month break he has absolutely hacked up. They have just figured out how to train him and a good proportion of his form can be discarded as without the break he just runs up light and runs like a drain, Apparently he looked terrible at Doncaster in the ledger. He is very very good imo, could be the best 1m4f horse in Europe even, though it remains to be seen.
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I still think that SYT was sent on too early for a horse that might not really want 10 furlongs and may not have been quite as fit as he can be. I think he has more basic speed than Workforce who won't beat him over less than 12 furlongs. The next question involves the 3yo generation. How good are they?
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sageform,I think he was fit enough fact is he just got beat regardless of what the Coolmore spin would have us all believe.I sort of agree with you that W'force wants 12f really but who knows one things for sure SYT may not be so good after all certainly not as good as the Ballydoyle bullmuckers have been telling us,but time will tell!
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Agree that he is not as good as they thought and I certainly don't buy in to the superstar spin but I got the impression from watching the race at Ascot a few times that he was a bit unlucky to get beat. The real lesson as that 10 furlongs is his limit on the sort of going he will find in UK/Ireland. I happened to be away from my TV that day and saw the race in a betting shop full of Autralian tourists who went away with their tails between their legs.
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With the greatest respect you lot are making mountains out of molehills. Workforce ran a stinker last season in a similar fashion. Frankly most of you couldnt pick your nose. Feel free to remind me of this later in the season.
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If he redeams his reputation and comes to Tipperary, would any of the breeders on the forum with the means consider sending one or more to SYT? The pedigree wouldnt exactly set the studcard alight but its obv done SYT no harm
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Workforce scrambled home from Poet who was tailed of behind Rewilding and SYT. He is not a 10 furlong horse so SYT should beat him over that trip. If he doesn't then he might as well return to Australia.
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Pistol P,
He would have to do more to really want to use him,his sire is ok but has he really done enough to want a son of his?And it comes down to price SYT cannot be that expensive can he?I can see him heading back home as breeders here wouldn't give him a Castlemain XXXX not unless he turns it in from now on.  |
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I'm still surprised that Coolmore were willing to spend so much money on a horse that had a well-publicised wind operation.
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Don't ye know Workforce would have ran in the Guineas but for the fact that that Sir Micheal couldn't get him ready in time.[;)]
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They could retire SYT now and Coolmore would make him a successful stallion. Moreover the fact that High Chaparral has actually had a decent horse running in the NH will keep HIM going at an apparently ridiculous price for another couple of years.
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Salmon Spray, I'm not so sure. A big oaf of a horse, just the type to have a wind problem and therefore just the type to pass it on. High Chaparral is a negative too.
Now I know there are many divergences with Haradasun, but right now their Northern hemisphere race records are identical. From 'let's not even try' - Haradasun; to 'successful stallion' - So You Think' ? I think there's not a big enough gap between the two to make your supposition necessarily correct. In total agreement with High Chap and ridiculous price. Being a bit tick though I'd never really given much thought to a successful knock on to Daddy if SYT blazes a trail this season. It must surely help defray some of the purchase price of SYT if it buys Dad another lucrative season at Coolmore or enhances a sale to Japan perhaps. |
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Does the fact that SYT, has now shown Euorpean breeders he can run a strong 12 furlongs, damage his stud career, or does it just add another string to his bow ?
Opinions please. |
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In think 'placed in a Melbourne Cup' was most likely to have done the damage to which you refer Salmon Spray.
12f for a horse like him who is obviously designed to get the trip in most peoples eyes anyway is just a formality really. Plenty of form below the trip is what you need commercially if it is obvious that a middle distance horse is what you have on your hands. For me he is a no go area. However when the ads start appearing that this lovely mare and that lovely mare (all Coolmore owned ofcourse) is booked, then maybe he won't be a no go area for those that matter? We shall see. |
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Pot M
Is he in the No Go Area, due to his throat operation ? This would be a worry for me. |
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Howarde, the wind op is certainly a negative. Frankly I am short of positives of any description for this horse.
I mentioned earlier that I didn't necessarily think this horse had an automatic ticket for Fethard so am interested that there is talk of him staying in training. I am pretty sure that he'll be finishing by July though so he can make a 2012 southern hemisphere kick off. Whether between now and then he convinces us up here . . . |
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I think he'll win the Champion Stakes personally.
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Pot M
Why spend $40 million on a half share, if they plan not to stand him at Coolmore. Do you think, they would be disappointed with his performances, this season. |
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Did they really spend that much?
I'm sure they want to stand him here. Do the rest of us? He's had a great season, but perhaps they were expecting him to be Ribot and Sea The Stars love child? |
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It was widely reported in the Australian press, that the half share was between 40 and 50 Mil.
That's Aussie dollars, which is about the same as the US dollar. A lot of money, but he will probably be priced here at about $60k and would be guaranteed, full books for the first four or so years. |
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They've been happy to sacrifice all sorts of very nice horses to facilitate his running so they'll want to get their pound of flesh - GL to the aussies is what I say. Whats he beat is an entirely fair question. A decent but not exceptional race mare and good horse on the decline in Workforce. He's a 10f horse and at that distance he's twice beat Famous Name (a decent Grp2 horse and exceptionally consistent) by 6l both times. Thats not a £75m horse. Frankel is a £75-100m horse in this market.
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I have to agree fully with yer ma. In a year when the middle distance division isn't of the highest quality So You Think has been somewhat disappointing. He certainly hasn't lived up to his overhyped billing. I also believe there are better inmates in Ballydoyle who have been sacrificed and pushed aside to promote SYT to centre stage. There is so much money invested in him it is nearly impossible for the investors to turn back. As a future sire he has too many negatives to be of interest to most breeders. His stud fee by all accounts will be high end, his size is a major talking point and Hurricane Run's inability to produce precocious types are all major negatives but they pale into insignificance with the revelation that he has had a wind operation.
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