Stallions set to leave the for...... foreign pastures

A quick look at the first season sires returns to date and note,
Three Valleys (GBP 6,000 (in 2008) at Banstead Manor Stud )
(2001 ch Diesis ex Skiable (IRE) (Niniski (USA)  (12.8f))
   0 – 14 runners so far,
surely there is a good one in some yard somewhere... they might need time and distance

Sadly with his precocious profile Three Valleys would have been expected to do plenty this year. Couple this with a 6k fee which would largely attract ordinary, ie. sprint bred mares in abundance.

I know his pedigree doesn't read the same way but he really had no choice but to crack on. Nobody's going to wait too long I fear.

^^^ Agree with Pot M's comments,another stallion who could be heading out east this term is Rail Link,did wonder too if Champs Elysees could be relocated to the US what do you think?

I would imagine that Rail Link would have appeal in the land of the rising. . However, they got their own version in Harbinger last year so perhaps he wouldn't be as sought after?

He was obviously difficult commercially from the start but they've given it a crack and you wouldn't expect any decisions any time soon as they've no choice but to wait it out with his type.

The Champs Elysees promotion seems to be doing a good job to me as all those foal pictures out there are a pleasing bunch so if the offspring in the flesh are as promising I don't see why they'd want to move him to a place he's pretty unsuited. And of course Dansili has hit the traps running this year big time.

I guess your right about Champs Elysees,I was kinda thinking as his best form was back in the US he may have appeal there,I was thinking the Juddmonte roster could look for 2012 is Frankel,Zamindar,Oasis Dream,Dansili,Twice Over with poss' Observatory staying,I know he was on his way out a few years ago until he got African Rose,if they do move him I think he would stay over in the UK at a smaller stud and most likely 'up north'.Rail Link is never going to get going imo and I've said for a long time Beat Hollow would be better plying his class on the jumping mares his full bro' Court Cave looks a great prospect for that game and is popular.I had thought if Champs Elysees did go back to the US they would obv' stand him themselves it would enable them to see how he gets on here but still very appealing to US breeders as he wont have had any runners still holding maximum appeal,if he does well here then he could make the return trip,as by then his bro' Dansili who should go on again will be looking old.

I'm not sure Beat Hollow is quite imposing enough as a jumps sire?

Hurdlers he'd be alright for for sure. I don't really see anyone wanting Observatory, I can see him just staying at Banstead on a sort of Private basis. I would like a nice Observatory mare mind, lots of great broodmare influences in his pedigree - but I fear you've pipped me there too[;)]

Know what you mean about Beat Hollow,but though he's not the biggest stallion in the world I think being a son of Sadlers Wells who is getting a few hurdle winners that should sway NH breeders.I'm not so sure jumps breeders want gigantic boats today,I could see him getting high class hurdle winners,I'd guess what he lacks himself in size could be offset with his class,if Court Cave does well then I reckon there would be a popular place for Beat Hollow as a jumps sire.You could be right about Observatory perhaps we have 'pipped' you![;)]

Yes, you've got me thinking about the NH game a bit more than usual.

All those giant unraced mares are probably overdue for a bit of sharpening up to try and remain competitive with the french breds and the straight off the flat wallahs.

I wonder if they'll hurtle towards nippy and athletic to the point where they struggle. After all the fences aren't going to get any smaller one imagines. With the giants off the flat not as commonplace either perhaps big and backward could make a comeback. . .

Now where is the telephone no. for the boys standing Tiger Hill

Hurricane fly looks to be the prototype hurdler, the last two Champion Hurdle winners have been sired by Enrique and Montjeu so that could tell us where things are headed on that front. Peddlers Cross bottomed himself for the season trying to pass him.

I could be that the profiles of NH sires may start to split up, chasing sires/ hurdling sires, makes sense to an extent.

Daylami's stock seems to go well ovwe hurdles, but I can't think of many chasers he has sired.

At risk of being controversial, cover a staying mare with anything with a bit of quality 1m+ and it has a chance of producing a winning hurdlers 2-3m.  Imho jumping is even more to do with mares than sires, this is surely borne out by the profusion of sires and relative low fees (compared to flat)

potentialmillionaire     09 Jun 11 21:15 

Now where is the telephone no. for the boys standing Tiger Hill


Why on earth are you asking that for?YOU ALREADY HAVE IT!!![;)]

Destination Turkey/South Korea/Russia/South Africa for this lot...

Haathd, Araafa, Clodovil, Camacho, Indesatchel, Librettist, Motivator, Rock Of Gibralter, Sleeping Indian, Strategic Prince.

Good selection there Black Sam,a motley crew the lot of them,only the other day we were talking about Motivator saying what a disaster he'd been.Presume the first on that list is the useless Haafhd?

Motivator keeps having minor stakes places so given John Warren's quite stupendously humongous self belief and history of flogging a dead horse, I think he could remain.

But I agree that it's a well balanced list BSB!

Prima, Let in be not just money that I lose!

why strategic prince so soon?

Indeed - giving it 15 runners is harsh to say the least.  Clearly most on that list are lost causes but not sure what measures failure for likes of Camacho or indeed RoG (at 15k not 65k clearly)  - only place he'll be going is permanent Aus.  Has anyone seen an Authorised this year - no runners or entries surely a bit of a worry

The Strategic Prince choosing is based on the fact that he's served a sizeable number of low quality mares and I'd have expected trainers to be trying to get them out early, to pinch a few quid before the better credentialed 2YOs emerge.  He's not had many runners and I take this as a negative even at this early stage. He really needed a Dark Angel-type start to avoid being labelled the next Ivan Denisovich. Plus his sales figures are poor; £6,743 median from two yearling drafts (against a reported covering fee of 9,000 and 6,000 respectively). If you take out a couple of headliners that bump up his average, the vast majority of breeders who have used SP, will have lost money. Therefore where will the demand come from next year ?

I'm torn over Rock of Gibralter. He's sired some good horses, but he's not lacked for opportunity has he ? I've never really liked the distaff side of his pedigree to be honest. I maintain that he's been a failure overall but he's probably got a place in AUS.

We havent seen the second week of June out yet and you already have the fella eating kebabs and being called into morning prayer in some Istanbul suburb.

Come on have a heart BSB, lets give him until July eh?

I see Three Valleys is currently  0–16 runners...and dare I mention Strategic Prince 2–17.  Is there any hope from here folks?
The first season sires are not firing in the big winners to catapult them into stardom ranks ..so far this season. Time is passing (nothing to note in Royal Ascot)......wonder what really good progeny are yet waiting to run...for the first crop sires.

I long to be able to disagree with you Airmail and say that you are being rather impatient.

However with todays mega sized books we do get a pretty reliable impression quite early on.

For me the cheaper speed types are perhaps headed by Dutch Art, though that's a pretty big surprise I think. It does seem that I find myself hoping that the guys who have had no runners yet to speak of, will perhaps come up trumps. I guess that Teofilo is still promising though.

One way or another though, I think that 'foreign pastures' are going to be filling up nicely about the end of 2011.

Given they got rid of Hawk Wing,Strategic Prince looks like Coolmore`s token non-Northern Dancer sire. They even seem to like particular sons of his I think the Storm Bird descendants are all in the US.
I suspect Dark Angel`s 2nd crop onwards will be a bit of a disaster.

Salmon,
Why do you say Strategic Prince is a "non-Northern Dancer" sire?

Sorry. I was getting him mixed-up with Thewaytheyare ( by Kingmambo ) who is in fact the only one who isn`t
My excuse is that the way their website is designed you need a steadier hand than mine to stop the cursor slipping up or down one.

With all the brilliant colts Prince Khalid has lined up for stallion duty now (and Byword often gets forgotten here - I wonder if he'll start leasing some to France?), it seems strange to think that Juddmonte found room for Three Valleys in 2008, five years after his very decent juvenile campaign, and 4 years after he flopped at three..

The Prince ploughs his own furrow though, many would have gotten rid of Observatory & Beat Hollow long before now but he no doubt thinks the sires will work well with his stock and I daresay a son of Diesis came in useful for some of his mares. TV could be around longer than many think.

Araafa will prob be off soon which is a shame as I think his owners deserve a bit of credit for giving it a go. And did anyone mention Indian Haven??

I had a quick look and Strategic Prince is now 2–19 (11%) and Three Valleys is 0–17
The Dylan Thomas runners 1–7 (14%) so far.
The top 4 First Crop Sires are; Dark Angel    9–35   26%
                                      Excellent Art 5–14   36%
                                      Teofilo       5–14   36%
                                      Dutch Art     8–23   35%

Dark Angel is cheap speed.
Not sure about Excellent Art,but Teofilo was always going to be interesting given he is by Galileo and was precocious. From a general breeding point of view it would have been more satisfactory if we had seen him at 3 though.
Dutch Art could be interesting. Tough type who should have stayed further than he did. Possible that will be reflected in his offspring a bit like Pivotal.

Three Valleys got a winner yesterday when Musical Valley
...... Three Valleys (USA)   — Musical Horizon (USA) (Distant View (USA)  (7.7f))
Trainer by  Tom Dascombe for  The MHS 4x10 Partnership Bred by Millsec Limited
got his head in front in the 2.30 Haydock yesterday.

It's been a long wait!

Incidentally which of you guys out there know who Millsec Ltd. is?

It's obviously a Juddmonte offshoot but is it just me who doesn't know what?

I always thought that generally Juddmonte's american bred horses go down as Millsec, don't Niarchos horses work similarly where they go down as Flaxman Holdings in america but as Niarchos family in Europe?

Obviously Musical Valley spoils that theory tho!!

Thanks P P.

I don't think that is the case as you suggest as Millsec only had 8 or so winners last year.
Juddmonte Farms Inc. covers most of the Yankee Doodlers I think!

I wouldn't swear to it by something in my memory tells me it is the operation that owns the UK Juddmonte mares.

Quick update on Three Valleys         2–22 runners     9%
                    Strategic Prince         3–22 runners    14%
Top 3
             Dark Angel      12–38 runners    32%
             Excellent Art     6–17  runners    35%
             Dutch Art       10–25 runners    40%

Strategic Prince  bagged a Gr1 winner yesterday at the Curragh yesterday
out of the Galileo mare Starfish.....
4:05 - Keeneland Phoenix Stakes (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)
6f, €110,200.00

1 La Collina 33/1  Strategic Prince ex Starfish (IRE) (Galileo)
2 Power 7/4F
3 Tough As Nails 12/1

9 ran Distances: nk, 1¾l, ½l
TIME 1m 13.30s (slow by 2.30s)

Jockey: D P McDonogh
Trainer: Kevin Prendergast

Funny how things turn out,have to say S.Prince was looking like standing on dodgy ground the filly's win yesterday gave him a much needed and timely boost.As Dansili is doing well this Can only give us all a bit of hope including his connections,lets hope a few of the other first season sires turn it in from now on,I'd like to see a bit of class from Amadeus Wolf and Jeremy!

'I wants don't get' as my dear mother used to say Prima!

The 4 - 8 granders start off fairly lowly in the suitors stakes and it's not really very fair to expect much of them, given the ratio of failures in the stallion population generally.

Still, early days I daresay and we must give succour to the guys who have pregnancies and foals by Authorized, Manduro and the likes.

As someone said elsewhere, 1st season championships stand alone really and frequently have absolutely no bearing on the long term. Fasliyev Kheleyf Berto Iffraaj and Kodiac spring instantly to mind. Having said that, with Acclamation's profile steadily dripping down the plughole after year 1, I had significant doubts about him turning it round. Mmm . . . got that one right - NOT

I see that Three Valleys is now 7 winners and 9 placed and it wasn't long ago that 2 winners only, spelled his immediate demise. And no I'm not getting excited and booking all my mares in - they're already promised - Notnowcato!

I feel a bit sorry for Strategic Prince though, how I bet they wish La Collina been out of a Rock Hopper mare say, because right now grandad is gonna be getting the credit [;)]

Your dead right about 'granddad' getting the credit Pot M,and right again with your summing up of the first season sires,what the hell has happened to Kodiac?Tony must be laughing himself to sleep each night after booking all those mares into Kodiac without any movement on the fee!Oh yes and one other thing you wont be seeing my lorry heading off to the great Nocando's.As far as the great Three Valley's he's sure to follow in the footsteps of those other excellent Diesis stallion son's...............who are they?Remind me please!
PS Yes pity its not out of a Rock Hopper mare....even Rambo Dancer eh Pot M.[;)]

One thing I've learned from you (begrudgingly, ofcourse!) Prima, is that whilst I've always given 1st season sires credit for being popular numbers wise I'd never given much thought to the quality of mare they seem to attract.
It always seems to me that a nice mare should be supported with proof rather than potential, but it seems plenty of them must be 1st seasoning it as you always say. Now more than ever, judging by the way new sires struggle to amass an actual career beyond a  brief pan flashing.
I'm really not sure about your last comment[;)] but the 'Rock Hopper' mare to whom you  refer has just had a 4yo winner in Greece which has bought her career total to 6 winners from 6 runners!
Sadly the last foal (2yo) is running round at home waiting to start a career as a broodmare due to her owners lack of funds. So the mare has retired with no chance of a better record than 6 winners from 7 foals!
An interesting record from a 'Rock Hopper' mare who never got to within 35 lengths of winning a race and who also came over backwards in the stalls, breaking them, and causing a 'flag start'!
You never can tell. . .

A few first season sires that need a few good 2/3ylds next year....
STALLION          WINNERS  –  RUNNERS   %
Jeremy        4      -    20   20%
Moss Vale     7      -    36   19%
Three Valleys     5      -    34   15%
Authorized     4      -    19   21%
Echo Of Light     3      -    20   15%    
Rail Link     3      -    15   20%
Manduro      1      -    17    6%