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RipVanWinkle
04 Apr 11 18:15
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Date Joined: 18 Nov 08
| Topic/replies: 588 | Blogger: RipVanWinkle's blog
Has anyone heard of any big name mares going to him apart from Zarkava, Alpine Rose and Sariska he must be getting a better book than Sea The Stars this year
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Report potentialmillionaire April 4, 2011 7:54 PM BST
His book will be sensational. He stands at double the fee of his nearest challengers and yet he is still so popular that it is not always possible to get a covering slot!

Now given the sort of mare that a breeder has to comit to him, that must be galling indeed! It doesn't matter what level you are playing at, there's always a 'but'.

I know that Cheveley's Spacious is one nice maiden there Rip.
Report RipVanWinkle April 4, 2011 8:04 PM BST
You'd have to think the way it is going he could be champion sire for the next 10 years, the english do have some good challengers with the likes of Oasis Dream,Dansili and Dubawi but Galileo's progeny just seem to be so versatile maybe thats where the difference will be
Report Prima Donna April 4, 2011 8:19 PM BST
I'd say a massive help for Galileo is the sheer quality of his books and the numbers he gets.STS was always going to be commercial on his first crop,but with those sort of mares most tend to go to 'proven' sires.Of the UK stallions able to pose any sort of challenge to Galileo in the stallion ranks I reckon both Oasis Dream and new kid on the block Dubawi are his main dangers but they still have to improve to topple him at CH sire level,Dansili imo is both a good sire and commercial but he's the one on that list that could perhaps be a touch overrated certainly he is a shade expensive.
Report potentialmillionaire April 4, 2011 8:48 PM BST
Galileo was a slightly slow starter wasn't he. I remember that 1st crop of 2yo's being a bit ordinary compared to what happens now. If he appreciates the phenomenal mares he gets now then I'm with you Ripvan, he's unassailable until age withers him. I don't see Oasis Dream or Dubawi providing a regular challenge without a regular supply of 10 and 12 furlong colts as they are the money earners worldwide. Sea The Stars is ofcourse as good a potential challenger as there is, but all the credentials in the world (and he has them) doesn't guarantee the ascent to those dizzy heights!
Report Prima Donna April 4, 2011 8:54 PM BST
You say he STS has all the credentials in the world..........he may have but he does have a pretty poor sire of sires in Cape Cross.Can you name any good stallion son of his?
Report paddywhacker1970 April 4, 2011 8:56 PM BST
Remember a few years ago Galileo had serious health problems. Imagine, given how well he has been doing in the last couple of years, that he had succumbed and passed away at the time?
Report potentialmillionaire April 4, 2011 9:09 PM BST
I agree that Cape Cross is a potential weak link here! Has he even had a son at stud?

If he had a run of bad sons at stud then that would be more a cause for concern but pop back to Green Desert/Balidaress, the looks, the talent, mummy, he's still as good as it gets surely.
Report Prima Donna April 4, 2011 9:24 PM BST
I think for a stallion been at stud for so long and one considered a good sire where the hell are his stallion sons?.................................only two I think of Recharge and Crosspeace both cheap and both 'dual purpose'speaks volumes, Green Desert has had a lot of duff sons as has been said on here before his best sire sons are from top class producing family's,I don't know if you have seen STS but he does not look the sort to get 2 y'olds the Aga is not perhaps the best person to enhance his chances there is he?
Report potentialmillionaire April 4, 2011 10:22 PM BST
I think Cape Cross's inability to sire colts that people actually want to use leaves us a bit high and dry when it comes to actively dismissing his potential when he does get one. The lack of desire by anyone to stand one of his sons has left us none the wiser yeah or neah.

I haven't seen Sea The Stars, but I can imagine him to be pretty substantial for a 2yo sire. As he was a bit better than Galileo perhaps that talent got him further at 2 because on the face of it Galileo's stronger Miswaki influence perhaps does make him appear to have a more precocious make and shape.

I think the Aga can help influence a sire championship - Derbys and Arcs are pretty valuable!! but I think he doesn't actually have that many shares does he? I would trust our top breeders to support the horse with the right mares ( perhaps with one or two exceptions DevilLaugh)

As I always say - and do - you can pick at any stallion. Galileo included. So Sea The Stars isn't home and hosed i.m.o either. But I still think he has fewer holes at this stage than any other horse in recent times.
Report RipVanWinkle April 4, 2011 10:43 PM BST
PD when you look at it though Sadlers Wells did not have a top son at stud until Galileo so the same could be said about Cape Cross given that STS is out of Urban Sea aswell so maybe well actually no maybe about it if Cape Cross is to have a good son at stud its only going to be STS.
Dansili i think will have a strong year as he got a very good book of mares, a tad overated and over priced i do agree but he is the kind who will get Derby and Arc sorts where the real prize money lies.
Oasis Dream will always have his top horses but cant see him overtaking Galileo but the way he's being supported anything can happen.
Dubawi and Shamardal will be there or there abouts this year but as we've seen it has been very hard for Darley to make stallions my preference out of the two is Shamardal who i think is a real classic producing sire.
Sea The Stars well what he can do at stud is anyones guess he proved everything he could on the track and just because he is not by a sire of sires does not mean he can do the business, only worry for me is that if he gets to many mile and a half bred mares
Report RipVanWinkle April 4, 2011 10:58 PM BST
Paddywhacker yes Galileo did have a problem a few years ago it was colic and he needed surgery, now for a bed there is saw dust under him instead of straw which is the bed of every other stallion.
Report jmc27 April 4, 2011 11:33 PM BST
Anyone with a decent Danehill mare form a queue!
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 11:50 AM BST
Rip Van,Yeah I also think a large disadvantage perhaps STS will face is that he will be used by a lot of OB types and doubt he had many early sorts,and don't forget he is not such a small horse I don't really think he is going to get many 2 y'old sorts but who knows as like has been said he is out of a great producing mare.Galileo has had a massive advantage standing with Coolmore it always helps,think about Kings Best again from the same family but we will never know but imo he perhaps would of been a better sire if he had started off over here at Coolmore getting the help their mares offer and not with Darley as a lot of his mares were stout to say the least.
STS is without doubt a great prospect but with breeding we sometimes need to stand back and look at what he offers and not just looking at him with the famous rose tinted specks purely seeing his racetrack victory's,Cape Cross as his sire imo is a big question mark as to his overall success as a sire,he himself is from a great family but as yet has left no good stallion prospect and for me that's got to be a worry coupled with where STS stands and the sort of mares he is getting.
I too can't see anything really going to knock Galileo off top spot just yet I did say above the other sires from the conversation above will all need to improve if they are going to stand a chance.But saying that we have used most of them and are doing so again this year but I think you know that already,all are atm commercial but time only will tell just how good they all are we know one is a great sire a couple are emerging one we have no idea yet.Sadlers Wells as a sire of sires was looking doubtful until Galileo but lets not forget Montjeu compair his list with Galileo and the numbers he really can 'upgrade' his mares could the same be said for Galileo?
Report RipVanWinkle April 5, 2011 1:46 PM BST
I didnt want to bring it up because i mentioned a few that could get the title of Galileo but Montjeu will have a good chance at the Derby,Irish Derby,Arc,Gold Cup that he might just be the closest to Galileo, What about Danehill Dancer though he certainly upgrades his mares
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 5:11 PM BST
Yes he does and he has been CH sire overall as well as CH sire of 2 y'olds at the same time,he is personally I reckon one of the best sires going,we have used him a lot its not unknown mind that he can let you down in the sale ring but hardly ever on the racetrack.
Report potentialmillionaire April 5, 2011 6:01 PM BST
If Sea The Stars ends up as an owner breeder type, say he became a Dalakhani Turbo, he could still be a champion sire in the making surely?

Danehill Dancer is a terrific sire and ofcourse his championship was most laudible, but he was never a good fit in the 'Fee Private' bracket. A smashing 2yo or stakes producing assistance for your mare sure, but he doesn't really do £300k + yearlings or English classic winners often enough for a 6 figure fee. (I know he started off lowly, but he's 18 now!)
Report RipVanWinkle April 5, 2011 6:30 PM BST
He's a great stallion though you know what your getting with him a brave,sound, fast horse. The sales figures are funny you'd think he would get more high sales results i think Famous might be the highest yearling? I think he will get a english guineas soon as he is breeding the likely types, as for any other classic cant see it, was it remember when last year she went close but as for others cant really see it. As for Montjeu he could be the one to challenge Galileo there just real athletes. As for DalakhaniLaugh
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 6:53 PM BST
I agree with you both on this with Pot M yes now he's 18 and also his 'fee' is in black and white his mare quality will drop a bit same as the great Sadlers Wells,I remember Peter Stanley telling us that his brothers great mare by Cape Cross was not going to Sadlers Wells for her first cover as he "is to old now"so they sent her to MonsunShockednow it looks like they have a bit of sense in using Galileo and Rip Van my thinking too with Dalakhani we have to date got away with him but I see him as total OB type if I wanted to breed a Gold Cup winner either at Ascot or Cheltenham then he's to man!Laugh
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 6:54 PM BST
**the man**
Report potentialmillionaire April 5, 2011 7:51 PM BST
I think I'd steer clear of Dalakhani for Cheltenham Prima, too much leg snapping going on in that sireline! Galileo could double up mind! Laugh
Report potentialmillionaire April 5, 2011 7:57 PM BST
Mind you, I know chasing a filly to retain is an iffy way to start planning a mating, but you'd have to want a nice Dalakhani filly or three for the broodmare band.

If you disagree Prima, I've got a spare box. . .Laugh
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 8:18 PM BST
LaughI don't so don't start the box just yet!
Report Prima Donna April 5, 2011 9:03 PM BST
Just as we are talking about Danehill Dancer did any of you see the Brocklesby stakes from Doncaster last Sat'?If so what did you think of Tyre Giant.Com's run?By Misu Bond a son of D.D.4th and for me the one to take out of the race he looks like he will be winning soon,Misu Bond might surprise a few on here.
Report potentialmillionaire April 5, 2011 9:24 PM BST
I'm afraid I was looking at stallions in Tipperary Prima! I'm sure the Hedgeholme folks can take encouragement, looking at the bare result though.
Report RipVanWinkle April 5, 2011 9:55 PM BST
Which ones did you like there Potm?
Report potentialmillionaire April 5, 2011 10:08 PM BST
I didn't see many Ripvan, but I was pleasantly surprised by your namesake. I would certainly have used him, I thought that just beefing up his hind leg a bit, you'd have a potentially very nice foal. Duke of M had done really well and I loved him, albeit in his plain old way. Fastnet Rock tickled me, lovely fluid mover though for a chiefton tank (perhaps with a bit less quality than the tank!) Starspangledbanner I liked but was slightly struck by a less than generous head maybe. Last but not least, Sadlers in his paddock, looking a full decade younger than than the reality.
Wish I could say the same about the spectator!
Report RipVanWinkle April 5, 2011 10:14 PM BST
Maybe O'Brien was right that he was such an athlete, he is a very nice horse but you'd have to worry a small bit about fragility. Dukes head is his worst bit although he still has some letting down to cover it up. Starspanglebanner will be a big bodied horse come this time next year so maybe commercially he can get the sorts.
Report potentialmillionaire April 6, 2011 11:10 AM BST
I think soundness issues would concern me less than with some Ripvan.

With a better farrier who didn't do the usual racing thing of abandoning their toes thereby reducing their heels to an afterthought the picture might have been different. You would have thought that the Ballydoyle farriers would be better than that, but they still ended up flying in a U S farrier to sort it, so who knows?

He ran 14 times so those of us using a hastily retired / non trained on 2yo are probably not in a position to be too critical [:x]

However as you infer, no point in sending a mare with the same questionmarks, for sure.
Report Prima Donna April 6, 2011 12:36 PM BST
Did you look at Alfred Nobel?If so what did you think of him?
Report jmc27 April 6, 2011 4:59 PM BST
SO you can see the weight they put behind him, Galileos Two years olds for Coolmore this year and Im sure Im missing some. Ive a list on the antepost thread of most of their two year olds if anyone is interested!

Colts

Ernest Hemmingway (Galileo x Cassydora)
Nashville (Galileo x Brown Eyes)
Optimist (Galileo x Grecian Glory)
Galileo x A Footstep Away
Galileo x Ask For The Moon
Galileo x Beauty Bright
Galileo x Belle Allemande
Galileo x Blissful
Galileo x Bywayofthestars
Galileo x Charroux
Galileo x Dietrich
Galileo x Dordogne
Galileo x Four Roses
Galileo x Ionian Sea
Galileo x Kasora
Galileo x Kentucky Warbler
Galileo x L'ancresse
Galileo x La Chunga
Galileo x Lady Lahar
Galileo x Litani River
Galileo x Matikanehanafubuki
Galileo x Mora Bai
Galileo x Nell Gwyn
Galileo x Secret Garden
Galileo x Silverskaya
Galileo x Sitara
Galileo x Song To Remember
Galileo x Tarascon
Galileo x Winds Of Time


Fillies

Alone (Galileo x Dance For Fun)
Aloof (Galileo x Airwave)
Eternal Bounty (Galileo x Moments of Joy)
Oh Happy Days (Galileo x Glass Slipper)
Precious Stone (Galileo x Anna Karenina)
Soon (Galileo x Classic Park)
Station House (Galileo x Theann)
Up (Galileo x Halland Park Lass)
View (Galileo x Trading Places)
Wonderful (Galileo x Absolutelyfabulous)

Galileo x Alluring Park
Galileo x Butterfly Cove
Galileo x Flower Bowl
Galileo x Gwynn
Galileo x Jude
Galileo x Khoruna
Galileo x Mona Lisa
Galileo x Solo De Lune
Galileo x Sumora
Galileo x Winning Sequence
Report RipVanWinkle April 6, 2011 6:53 PM BST
Incredible books this has got but he deserves it as he is the best, Will be nice to see the colt out of Kasora. I wonder does PD know anything about any of them?
Report potentialmillionaire April 6, 2011 7:21 PM BST
I was only at Hq Prima, so no Alfred - Castle Hyde I assume!

I felt that D.D over Warning could result in something a little light and tubular though. I wonder if that is the case.
Report Prima Donna April 7, 2011 10:23 AM BST
Pot M,You are right Alfred Nobel is at Castle Hyde he a niceish sort and by the right sire from a great family but I don't know what others think but I didn't think he is the greatest walker I've ever seen,but he could be worth a punt at the money.I've said many time good stallions as a rule are from good producing family's.
Rip Van,The colt out of Kasora sounds a nice prospect but his full bro' Black Bear Island and the full sister were not really as good as High Chaparral,lets hope this colt is better or as good at least.Galileo's mares are fantastic he seemingly can only get better and better,he stands a real chance of becoming Sadlers Wells the 2nd.I can't help in thinking that he has had a huge help from great mares Coolmore gave him as he is from a stoutish family that's where for me he holds a big advantage over his brilliant half brother STS who has coverd LOTS of pure middle distance sorts.Another thing perhaps to think about is assuming a level of racetrack performance similar to STS and Galileo how would we rate the chances of the Invincible Spirit half brother?More or less successful than STS?
Report potentialmillionaire April 7, 2011 11:25 AM BST
Surely Urban Sea has to run out of steam some time!!

Is it before or after her last foal?

I don't like Invincible Spirit on top of stamina. The breeder of Lawman managed to make it a smooth transaction but by and large he's speed and that's that. So if he stamps over Urban Sea, well that's not what you're hoping for with the great mare is it. It seems to me that it is a mating with the potential to trip up. Green Desert perhaps was her least successful suitor and whilst acknowledging his failings as a sire I wonder if the distance issue played it's part. After all, her Bering was useful!
Report Prima Donna April 7, 2011 1:05 PM BST
Yes the Bering was 'useful'but not top flight!I think that the I.Spirit most likely will go further than his sire with her,and I would hope that it stands a great chance of getting a mile who knows maybe a second GNS winner for the mare,that would be truly sensational!One things almost for sure doubt it will be anything like as good as either of its half brother's,mind you it only needs to be half as good to make a welcome edition to the stallion ranks.We would send a mare or two I'm sure.
Report RipVanWinkle April 7, 2011 1:17 PM BST
The Invincible Spirit could be better at 2 but i'm sure they wont run him to much, as he could be anything at 3. Urban Sea has the stamina in the mating but Invincible Spirit is not short of it either and has produced some staying progeny. Invincible Spirit has done well with Mr Prospector line mares so that is a bonus in the mating but its Urban Sea its impossible to see what could happen.

PD i know Black Bear Island wasnt as good as High Chapperal but he won a Dante and 2nd in a Secretariat stakes so it does show she's not just a once off producer like some. Yes STS stamina laden mares will not help commercially but i'm sure he will still have the class to help these mares.
Report potentialmillionaire April 7, 2011 8:14 PM BST
I wonder how useful he needs to be before we all pile in?

The pictures I have seen of him looked very encouraging, an I.S. with plenty of size, but we'll see.

I had a look through Sea The Stars 1st book today and I thought it quite balanced. It certainly didn't look stamina heavy to me.
Report RipVanWinkle April 7, 2011 9:14 PM BST
Yes but potm the mares will be 1 mile 2 furlong bred or thats how far they stayed would be my look on it
Report Prima Donna April 7, 2011 10:27 PM BST
Same here Rip Van.................my point entirely!
Report potentialmillionaire April 8, 2011 5:22 PM BST
Laugh Agree to disagree.

I reckon that there are at least 30 speedier types there, and I imagine plenty more who would be 1 1/4 types which I.M.O. would be the best types for the horse.

I wouldn't send a sprinter off a sprinters page to him any more than I would recommend that route with his big brother ( like, anybody's going to ask my opinion Laugh ) so I still say a good mix. After all that's going to be the quickest way to find out what works best.
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