PHOENIX REACH,4 winners in 13 days.

Only two winners I think you'll find!

4 wins in 13days!happy with that? race1

Not a great retrun is it really - only 2 winners from his crop to date. Moderate racehorse being translated into moderate progeny.

Charwell I'm no fan of Phoenix Reach as a stallion but what on God's Green Earth makes you call Phoenix Reach a moderate racehorse?

There's plenty of cr@p written on this site but that really does take the biscuit.

3 winners, 5 wins in total.

Promise from a sire who is unlikely to get many eary types but can't make any judgements until he gets some runners in better class races.

sageform,i could not have put that better!only covers about 30 a season at moment,so up against it i feel!more winners more covers!2 runners this week, with chances.

Charwell,

If a triple GP1 winner, earning nearly £2 million in prize money is moderate?
How do you define a mere 100 rated barely Listed class horse, leave aside a plebian handicapper?

Sorry, I clearly explained myself badly.

I meant in comparison to the achievements of top class studs he has not reached that level on the track and therefore can't be expected (ordinarily, I know) to be a huge success at stud. Clearly a good horse, although I am not convinced of the standards of what he beat and what he really achieved (i.e look weakish G1's). Nothing he did could be described as 'breathtaking.'

lol. watch his gp 1 wins.i,d stick to poker i think![smiley:crazy]

Think youve lost a bit of perspective Pimm, Charwell may be overstating it but PR was no superstar.  You mention his 3 Gp1s, I've tonnes of time for any horse winning at this level BUT the Sheema Classic was far from well named.  Collier Hill! Woodbine had a rapidly declining Brian Boru strong fav amongst a sorry crowd and HK was a messy race in which he got by far the best ride.  Thats how I see it and the 115 rating backs that up.  GL to those that have these now 3yo tho, couldve bought about 5 for 10k total as yearlings.

PR did well as a racehorse considering he had a serious setback with a split pastern after his 2yo debut run (second to Norse Dancer over 7 furlongs on firm ground) He won his maiden, then a Group 3 Gordon Stakes before running 3rd in the Leger in just his fourth race. He then won at Woodbine in a Group 1 on his fifth start. I agree that he was not an exceptional Group 1 winner but nor are many successful sires. I suspect that Alhaarth's record has not helped him and the lack of any wins below 12 furlongs is always a negative.