Holy Roman Emperor

You do Pot M............you do!!

Possible to get him at 6k now Prima.

5K if you send a couple!

Coolmore have a 2yo registered this year called Amira's Prince, by the Darley stallion Teofilo. Have they backed down?

This colt is down as having sold to Mohammed Kazem Alansari at Tattersalls Book 1 October Yearling Sale, the naming would suggest Arabic ownership.

Indeed. And the co-owner according to HRI is one Mrs. J. Magnier!

Well topfarrier shall I assume you have sent him at least one this year?Standing him for just 6k could seem a very attractive prospect,but to me it says more about the lack of confidence Coolmore have in him.He would make a sire who perhaps with a COLT would warrant a trip over to Doncaster for the St.Leger sales.But I'd be very aware at 6k most likely he wont be around to hear the happy news he has another child unless you don't mind ringing a far flung hot country way out east.
5k for a couple..............bid them 4k for 2!

10k for two, I'm dubious to say the least.  Thats 1/7th the fee of 2008 and 1/5th the 2010 median.  Why would they do that? Thats fire sale stuff

If his record last year sums him up accurately, which we won't know until this year is out of the way, then I imagine he will be quite dependable at that job as he has stamped the aptitude of his own 2yo season pretty reliabley.

If you compare him to the established 2yo sires from Acclamation downwards then there is a strong case for calling him great value at these prices quoted.

Ofcourse, his biggest enemy at the moment is market perception, that's the hardest thing to call right now.

Cheers for the answers I asked the question because i was just curious.
The female side of the family has some exceptional US/Canadian blood, Champion/Grp1 3 year olds and Champion/Grop1 producers. Im no breeding expert but could it be possible that because of the way HRE was raced people are presuming 2yr old if he starts getting 3 year old winners could it be worth the gamble at the moment, especially on a filly?

@Bobbylemoko With no money here Coolmore are gone after Arabs with the real money :p So they seem to be setting their sights on Qatar. Mohammed Kazem Alansari bought Beethoven off them and a few others and when Joshua Tree won in Canada ODonoghue was going hell for leather doing the pr nattering on about Khalifa Bin Hamad Al Attiyah and the rest of them been the new upcoming force in racing.

It's possible your HRE scenario jmc27. I wouldn't like to say how likely it is though!

The biggest problem HRE faces is the perception of him not living up to expectations,too many people have been stung with this sire.However many minor winners he gets now the fact remains he has NOT done the job expected of him which was to get stakes 2 y'olds.
Its very hard for a stallion to turn peoples negative views around and redeem himself.HRE faces very much an uphill battle if he wants to do this,the bloodstock world takes no prisoners and has a very short memory,connections of this stallion know this only to well.

I think HRE's fee is ridiculous especially when compared with Kodiac who's first book of mares would probably not have been as good.  HRE should be 4K tops.

Good point, The fact is Kodiac's first book defiantly did not have anything like the quality that HRE received just rubber stamps how badly HRE has done.I wonder how successful Kodiac could be if he was sent mares that HRE had?

Add to the conundrum mind, that Kodiac would  definitely have got cheap speed mares that may well have proved entirely compatible with his aspirations. Holy Roman's mares included plenty that may have got in the way of a 'stakes 2yolds' head start

If a stallion needs good mares to help his case (and in my opinion many sires, and mares for that matter do what they are destined to do regardless)then those mares will bring something to the mix that may not suit the stallion atall.

When you cover the book sizes that these two have, there has to be a strong possibility that they will cover some decent ones however unpromising the overall quality looks at the outset (Kodiac) and therefore this 1st crop will be a pretty accurate showing. IE. Kodiac may very well be where he belongs already (useful not great) and HRE is in a pretty similar spot but arriving from a different direction! (ofcourse HRE's mares allow some scope for improvement with his 3yo's)

They will sell HRE to a different stud for a knockdown price and then 2 weeks later along will come a group 1 winning juvenile.

Thats the way it seems to work isnt it?

Finally a group winner for HRE he has certainly not lived upto his billing but did have plenty of winners last season but lacked the group horses. He has covered some very good books and did produce alot of winners last season but do people see a future in him for producing group winning progeny. I certainly hope so

That's a tough one,I think without doubt he has to improve THIS year,his runners poss' will want a trip he may get good 3 y'olds but he will also need to continue getting plenty of 2 y'olds that are stakes winners if he does not manage it THIS year then I think he will be sold off as ATM the jury is out on him,commercial stallions like him in his position are in a way sitting on the fence he could fall either way but imo this year is crucial.Mind you I can't help thinking back a few years when some people were doubting Danehill himself he did spend one season in Japan.

We all hope so Ripvan - well at least until we are all relieved of our interest in the horse [;)]

I've said all along that I didn't necessarily think that precocious 2yo's was his definite fit but as some on here pointed out, to what extent was I coming from a position of desperation?

Actually, the 4th ran okay at Leapardstown too and I think there will be more smartish ones to come.
But there's no getting away from the fact that he is coming from a place of puzzlement/disappointment and that's a tough climb in this game.

Didn't everyone doubt Danehill at the start Prima? he was a cheapish sire for a good few years and nothing very exciting happened until the better mares came on stream.
But I like your analogy - Let's hope HRE is the new Danehill by September! [;)]

But I like your analogy - Let's hope HRE is the new Danehill by September!

Its possible perhaps but doubt it really as you point out Danehill had cheap end mares and made it HRE has had good mares from the start the fact is he is struggling no two ways about it!

another good wknd for the holy roman. group3 winner in italy n a nice 2yo winner friday nite. wrs/runners is a very healthy 29percent. he ll still have to sire a gp1 to get any recognistion i persume

You'd have to be encouraged by the start he's made as it all looked so dodgy last year and there are quite a few improvers floating around. I'm not sure what's needed to rebuild trust or indeed what rebuilt trust will look like.

As we always say on here it's just subjective and he looks like he'll be a better sire than many.

Buyers at the sales have an odd set of values though, and cheap speed with no pretensions to class might still be more to their liking.

Time will tell.

Pot M, is HRE a stallion you would consider sending another one to this or next year?

Prima,

Right now, I can't think that the 5 or 6k bandied about looks like bad value. After all as you say you've got to take a punt on something. I fully understand that if you've been bitten or are about to be bitten (like me perhaps ) then the leap of faith is a bit bigger perhaps!

I do think there is still a chance he could turn out respectabley - on the track more likely than in the ring maybe.

Imperial Rome looks the stand out of what he has produced so far. His 3yr old crop aside look very average. However i like to judge him after this year 2yr old season to see how he goes before making a rash judgement.

Bolger again doing his bit for HRE....has quite a few 2yr olds by him.

Woops sorry Bolger has quite a few 2yr olds by HRE nemesis Teofilo.....my mistake

I'm taken no more punts on this horse for a while, i think we've used him every year so far and his sales returns haven't been bad but the results on the track haven't been the best.

Good start this year for Holy ROman Emperor.

Imperial Rome looks to be potentially the best of his colts and Bolger again helping out Coolmore with Banipire spelling?...he is up near the top on the sire's list and maybe could have a classic winner the the mentioned bolger filly 2moro

HRE is actually starting to get some momentum behind him.

He is going well mainly down to the filly but that is one real good horse he has their. Not loads their yet but seems to be a very good winners in Europe for him. Hopefully he keep on the upward curve.

My Propeller.

I've never seen a 2yo win like it, reasonable time too. It'll be fascinating to see if there was any element of fluke there.

jmc27     16 Jun 11 17:35 
HRE is actually starting to get some momentum behind him. Is he indeed....where?

Welcome Prima. Are you still a little woozy after Ascot or fully recovered. (impressive if so!)

I notice that HRE is 4th in the 2yo sire list and 8th in the general list. The latter is respectable enough - certainly as the next 2nd season sire Iffraaj is 47th or so! The Noseda colt and the Chapple Hyam filly look potentially much better than his 1st crop juveniles so I think there is definite progress. - I'm certainly a bit happier but we could always do with more[:p].

Any Ascot gossip?

Good evening Pot M,
Yes I'm recovered enough to send you this post,Ascot was great last week you must of been watching on the telly I guess did you see me waving?Well HRE has improved from last year but he needs to much better again if us breeders will take a chance on him with a half decent mare again.Didn't that Firebreak filly run well in the Queen Mary, Slick was shouting "come on she's gunna do it"another ten yards she may of done it,she looks a nice prospect for her owners we wish them the best of luck.Had a drink with Sir Henry he is remarkable,Frankle is a super looking colt but from what we witnessed last week if and when he meets Canford Cliffs reckon CC will take his scalp,he too is a great looking colt.

Yes indeed, the Firebreak filly did look great and although the fillies finished quite close up I didn't think they looked a bad bunch. I can't decide on MarkofEsteem as a broodmare sire, he has certainly had some great results, but is that because of the £30k fee covered mares at the off?

I'm a Frankel man through and through. But they need to get the riding sorted. I wonder how much Ridingbootgate affected Goldi! I think Canford could be vulnerable as he isn't tactically the most versatile perhaps, but Frankel could be a sitting duck or could be too far infront to care. Mouthwatering. . .

Thanks for the wave, grateful I'm sure . I thought some of your waistcoats a little dubious and did you really need to jump up and down behind Clare and Willie to get on the telly between every race?

Here's a question. How can I find detailed broodmare sire stats? For example, if I wanted to see all of the horses that have Mark Of Esteem as their broodmare sire, with a view to evaluating what sires were crossing best with MOE mares, how could I do this?

I was cheering on the Firebreak filly.  I cant imagine many mares in foal to him this year, was back to thinking I made right decision again.  Do you think Darley has him up for sale?

I can only dream of choosing between Frankel and Canford Cliffs

I know many on here dont agree but he is certainly doing better than some of the great hopes of last years first crop table

Your so right JMC...he is flying up the table and another 80 odd k to add after today. No way you would have thought he was a top 10 sire after last year's 2yr old crop. He may be able to sneak in the Top 5 who knows?.

Delighted as he was one of my favorite racehorse's.

Vested interest alert! ! !

Top 10 with only 2 crops to represent is most satisfactory. Surely now it's getting to a stage where the nice ones should sell. Still a way to go perhaps for him to score a universally  high desirability rating but who knows.

I still think My Propeller on fast ground will be a force to be reckoned with.

would anyone know the rough figure for his book size this year?

They didn't seem to sell very well last year. And Coolmore have virtually none of him in this years 2yr old stock. Surprising everyone but Jim Bolger

got good winner yesterday, loius the pious,proving to be real money spinner.

2 winners today.

Sneaking up on High Chaparral.

Where is Banimpre to increase his earnings

2 Listed wins last few days and another winner tonight in Ireland.

Still 7th overall....impressive stats for 2 crops

Thread has got very quiet from some corners

10k a bargain if you got it this season!!!!![;)]

Medhi again for HRE....another 100k in the bank

Not to far off passing out Danehill Dancer in the prizemoney after today. 23 2year old winners this year not to be laughed at either for a sire some said was finished and I like the way his stock can take racing especially the fillies!

I have a third of a HRE 2 year old filly who won are third race this season. She has blossomed throughout the last 3 months. Now put away for next year and I think we will see the best to come next year hopefully.

GL to you Ugly :)

The one everyone loves to hate, On a pedigree note I love looking at his dams side it just such a regal bloodline of US and especially Canadian greats a whos who of hall of famers. Im still sticking to my theory that this lad is going to hit the mark as a broodmare sire still think he could go on when they get the right nick

I agree and am still considering for this year. Coolmore should be making more of an effort with him imo.

This is a top 10 sire with just 1 crop of 3yo's

He is on my list too and I have used him before with no complaints. I gather that a good book isn't going to be a problem this year and he's a tough and fertile horse.

Young and proven is a rare commodity right now. What more would you like to see Coolmore do yer ma? I think he is just in no man's land right now as he is not the obvious Gp 1 sire people hoped for so he is just waiting to find his level commercially.

Buy a few off you or I would be a start - more incentive to the pinhookers if they know the lads are going to buy a few for 100k+. You know they're not on the arab list so hes a bit in no-mans land.  Gets horses thats for sure and lots of stakes winners to come.

Dont get carried away with the hype. Have a look at these stats, they are self explanatory.


Holy Roman Emperor;  Named Foals = 304
                     Starters    = 233 (76.6% of named foals)
                     Winners     = 106 (34.9%)
                     Placed      =  63 (20.7%)
                  Stakes Winners =   9 (3%)
                  Stakes Placed  =  13 (4.3%)
Stud fee 2012, 12,500 euro

Big Bad Bob          Named Foals = 39
                     Starters    = 39  (100% of named foals)
                     Winners     = 23  (59%)
                     Placed      =  7  (17.9%)
                  Stakes Winners =  4  (10.3%)
                  Stakes Placed  =  3  (7.7%)
Stud Fee 2012, 6,000 euro

I'm not interested in beating the drum for HRE but if thats your logic Gotchee then BBB is a better stallion that 95% in the world including Galileo, Oasis Dream et al.  When he hits 100+ runners and still has those stats fair enough.  Sample size is everything

Sorry for raining on your parade. You are not the first and wont be the last to be taken in by this overhyped specimen. The yearling median for GB/IRE would suggest that breeders took a huge hit.

This stallion started at 35k and his highest rated horse in 2 years is 114 (RP), i cant see him getting too many better ones with lower quality mares. I think he is a flop. He should be 5k.

Yer Ma

I'm not pushing BBB but the sample size of 37 is plenty significant enough based on the results. Unless there is some obvious bias in the figures (which i cant see), the stats are good enough to base business decisions on.

Theres no denying that BBB is an excellent sire based on his figures I have always flagged that but as mentioned if it is as black and white as that he is the best sire in the world . Still cant see why HRE should be 5k either from one extreme to the other imo there would be a lot of sires on 5k if it was based on RPR of 114 after 2 years

jmc
you are right but i dont think he is good value.

nothing is ever black and white, but we can only form opinion on what we know

Black and White are certainly not colours that can be associated with this industry very readily. Bright red  (panic) and beige (god knows what's going on) are far more appropriate.

With the mares that Holy Roman Emperor covered you can certainly make a case for some level of disappointment. However very few stallions get as high up the stallion tables (top 10) with just one crop of 3yos and no other stallion got as high up the 2yo table (money won) as he did in 2011.

If he fires in results like this year in year out he will be a useful tool. Certainly a far cry from 'a flop'.

Plenty of stallions do what they do regardless of what mares you send them. From Bahamian Bounty, Royal Applause and Bertolini all the way up to Sadlers Wells perhaps. HRE certainly has plenty of truehoncho's holding him back but I will wait and see whether he shakes them off. He could do.

I had to rescue supper 1/2 way through this post so it actually crossed with truehoncho's!

Plenty of people here terribly bolshy about particular stallions. Least I know PD is a proper breeder and backer of his opinions, doubt that is generally applicable.  I've never used HRE but have been offered 10k Euro - so Gotchee / Truehoncho do you think I would make more using BBB than HRE on these terms?  In fact I'll sell you the mare for 50k and you can try it out.

i dont know yer ma, i suppose it depends on th mare (as ever}.
potm he is in the top 10 because of numbers and quality of mares in first year. I doubt he can keep that up without a couple of real classy ones, can he get them?

I think truehonch that HRE does not want for numbers for a while yet. He has remained covering decent sized books. Does he need quality mares to maintain this level? Probably, but it's not a definite. He strikes me as into a groove which he may be able to maintain. However a star or two maay as you suggest be more difficult so I don't see superstardom beckoning. Useful though is definitely within reach.

Based on his averages and medians at 35k,25k and 17.5k for a cover, HRE was a complete flop. At 10k he is still to dear for what he has achieved. There is no doubt in my mind that Banimpire got her colouring, most of her ability and stamina from her dam. Most of his better progeny have come from good producing mares. yer ma, as far as I am concerned Big Bad Bob's 39 progeny and their results is a big enough sample to judge his potential. From my research this is a stallion that covered a few homebred mares at Islanmore Stud and anyone else who wanted a free cover, over a 3 year period. An examination of the calibre of individuals that he has produced from the opportunities afforded to him shows he is a sire with a real future.  Based on his early and remarkable results The Irish National Stud properly marketed and promoted the stallion where he covered 77 mares last year. It is my view and it is only an opinion, that last year was his first proper season at stud and I am very confident his foals will do well this year. Another stallion which I have already highlighted is Kendargent (4k for 2012), he has had a G2 and a G3 winner already from only a handful of runners in his first crop. He has a similar profile to BBB but his first crop is too small to come to any positive conclusion. Although, neither BBB or Kendargent may be commercially attractive to some of the bigger breeders around here but at this point in their career they do offer incredible value for money compared to the likes of HRE.

The Gotchee. This term 'flop' is obviously endowed with a different meaning in your dictionary to mine.

HRE is champion sire of 2yos (money won) for 2011. All those folks that used Galileo for a six figure fee will be waiting for your use of adjective when you describe how he stacks up behind the sire that beat him in that table.

Also which adjectives will you trot out for Pivotal, Dubawi, Invincible Spirit, Shamardal, Cape Cross et al who finished below him with their mega fees and multiple crops in the general table?

I too think that Banimpire appears to have been a lot of her dam. But short of going for an immaculate conception for our foals why shouldn't the stallion take some credit?

Flawed HRE? Probably. Total Flop, do you not remember Mystiko, Rock Hopper and Araafa?

potm, you are right, I was a bit over the top there.

Me, right? Not very likely Gotch Happy to meet you somewhere in the middle!

Not many successful sires if HRE is a complete flop, its funny anybody that is pro him can keep it to a realistic level nobody is calling him anything near a superstar but the ones that are knocking are coming in with the extremes.

Unfortunately its easier to ignore vociferous opposition if you breed to race - you just back your view and ignore. Negativity = lower prices commercially and hence my trepidation in using despite liking his pedigree, looks and (in my eyes) relative progeny success.  Thats why I'm disappointed Coolmore havent backed him a bit more, they given the impression of doubts themselves.  That all said my poss mare is by a Roberto stallion with a Nureyev grandamsire. Familiar?

at 10k i still maintain he is expensive, do people think there will be a lot of buyers for his foals/yearlings at high prices?

yes, if you get a really nice one of course you will make as profit but if you get an average one from a 10k mares page, i think you will be lucky to cover your costs. Better to go to Mon Bond or the likes for half the price where you will sill get good money for a real nice one but have a lot less costs to cover with an average one. I just dont see HRE being in great demand, even with PotMs sales pitch!!

truehonch you're doing Prima Donna's job for him whilst he's away (not at Her Majesty's pleasure despite the rumours).

I would only agree that your scenario is very likely in a lot of cases and who wouldn't want to keep costs down when the likely sales results could read the same.
I like to think closely though when picking the cheap alternative. If fashion is beggaring up the HRE type say but I judge his type to be the better sire then I am prepared to pay a bit more and take the chance for the sake of the mare.

Monsieur Bond is actually an interesting comparison I think. He gets a good looking horse and he has a commendable few good horses which given his lowley beginnings is standing him in good stead commercially. I don't actually think he's a nailed on 2yo sire though and he's mighty good at getting a really ordinary horse. One that still needs plenty of thought. . .

Shouldve been at Donny today truehoncho - couldve got a Marju mare in foal to MB for £800 poor dear. I cant have your logic about no big prices for HRE while as likely to be from nice MBs.  He had one yearling over 50k last year (Hoof it's full sister) while HRE closer to 20. Not as if we're now talking about having to sell for 50k to make profit it either.  Same mare colt by HRE or MB plus £5k, I'd have former every time. But its all about taking a view.

Taking up Yer Mas point about the Marju mare at Donny yesterday for 800 in foal to MB.I appreciate times are desperate for many people currently but good grief that is shocking for the owner/breeder.At the same Donny sale in December 2010 I picked up a Dylan Thomas colt for 800,too small to race last season but in work currently and in the trainers words will win a maiden this year(fingers crossed but he isnt silly).First season cover for Dylan at the time 50k,madness!!

Afraid no doubts about it HRE has been disappointing,with the quality of his books along with his high fees you can't really say anything different.IMO this stallion is the next Footstepsinthesand.Just wondering if Pot M your view is slightly skewed by the good turn HRE has recently done you?
Comparing a stallion who stood for 35k to one who stood for just 2k is frankly ridiculous,but looking at the actual results on the course perhaps the fees are the wrong way around.........remind me who was HRE's GR1 winner?

I think that there is a level of disappointment with HRE, but as I also said, the majority of stallions are faring worse than him on many levels on the track, so flop he is not.

Actually Prima my good turm I think reflects very well on the 'bottom half' as it was such a good offspring it would have been considerably more successful had it been by many other sires!

It may well have been Pot M,just imagine if it had been by Mon Bond if it had perhaps you could of joined me on my holidays!I don't think HRE is a total flop but I do think he's one going the wrong way commercially so to speak,as I said above Footsteps the 2nd same stud same hype doubtless same results.
Lots seem to cling on to the fact he's had goodish mare so surely he will churn out a good one soon but the reality is for the level of mares he's had he's got nothing do dine out on yet,meanwhile over in Yorkshire a certain stallion is going forward in the right direction his mare quality is getting better each year do you really think the same could be said for Footsteps the 2nd?

He wouldn't have gotten everything George Washington was supposed to get would he? How much of a loss was George, being a son of Danehill, his only progeny has proved decent and competirtive in fillies listed races

I've given up waiting to be invited on your holiday Prima, anyway I reckon Skegness in January is overrated

What rubbish I was taking though, who on earth could speculate whether a different mating would create the same great result. I seem to remember a very similar date and a red hot sire producing quite the opposite

Footsteps is compiling quite an acceptable record - statistically - and I suppose he has exceeded my limited expectations. The HRE's might perhaps end up with a bit more goodwill because they are probably more tough and trainable.

No mans land is surely the most likely destination for them both, but I suppose they both get plenty of winners so there's always a chance of redemption. . .

neil d, you never can tell. He wasn't my cup of tea as it's a temperamental old page and Alysheba as a broodmare sigh didn't inspire confidence. Who knows.

We will never know if George is a loss or not,impossible with just the one foal.But I'd guess he would of been a decent stallion.I remember him as a yearling at the sales 'Mrs Trickledown stud' took him into the ring,George was looking all around him in the outside ring he had even in his youthful days an very imperious look about him.What a shame his tragic end........one of the best Guineas winners I've seen.

apologies, bit of a pointless question I suppose, but what a charasmatic horse. He apparently had this amazing presence about him which intimidated other horses, particularly when they were unbroken just running around. I'm sure he was taking the piss during that QEII, he was never the same when he came back, became more of a grinder. His Guineas was the last time Coolmore went into an important English Classic truly confident I think.

Total flop that HRE

Gets a tuff filly thats for sure :o

Do we think, with hindsight, that Homecoming Queen should have been out as a 2yo at Dundalk in April?

All credit to her that she is a 3yo improver that still has a career infront of her, when one could perhaps suggest that it could so easily have been behind her!

One swallow does not a summer make.

Presumably they had her out so early hoping she would take after her half sister Queens Logic rather than her three quarters brother Dylan "sire of sires?!?" Thomas.

PP, thanks for the giggle!!

A valid point from Posh Paddy.Could it be the case it just happens Homecoming Queen is out of a good producing mare despite being by Holy Roman Emperor?Myself I'd think that's more the case.

You certainly can't knock Lagrion for sure. I actually worked with her as a foal and she was a lovely solid type I remember.
But the 3 Gp1 winners couldn't be any more different in every way you care to mention.
Just another fascinating conundrum of our topsy turvy game!
Have you been in gainful employment as our resident Rowley Mile paddock watcher Prima?
Any reports?

I would agree though I would prefer the credit to go to HRE for purely selfish reasons.

x post

How did you guess Pot M,and yes I was in NMKT!

I'm glad he got that group 1 winner, but i'm still not convinced about him. Although at his price he is ok

DATE    HORSE    POSITION    RACE CONDITIONS   
    8Jun12    Bogini    1st         
    8Jun12    Unex Annigoni    1st       
    8Jun12    Cuisine    1st     
    8Jun12    Mayo Lad    3rd         
    8Jun12    Lollina Paulina    1st         
    5Jun12    Enthrall    3rd     
    5Jun12    Marinus    2nd   
    5Jun12    Theresnoneedfordat 10th         
    4Jun12    Lady Of The House 2nd     
    3Jun12    Imperial Wave    11th     
    2Jun12    My Propeller    5th       
    2Jun12    Ghost Train    3rd     
    1Jun12    King Kurt    2nd       
    1Jun12    Deauville Prince 2nd   
    1Jun12    Silvas Romana    2nd     
    1Jun12    Forget Me Not Lane 1st   
    1Jun12    Unex El Greco    3rd       

Going well of late

Progeny, Augustinian a bay colt out of Aurore (Fasliyev) has an entry in the 2yo seller on Monday at Windsor ....... what is interesting, it is owned and bred by The Queen, trained by Richard Hannon. ...... Not much chance of black type for this one then.

Group 2 Ishavana

One thing he has shown as they they are tough hardy and even improving sorts.

Wouldnt mind a yard full of HRE's

They seem to be able to run every week, on all types of ground, and surprisingly (for smallish types) hold their form as they get older.

The complete package at an affordable price, but will the yearlings sell well this year?

Nice September for him.