Holy Roman Emperor

No one?

I think jmc27,he is one stallion that most of us have lost money with at some point,plenty to like about his prospects when he retired,but the fact is most new stallions fail and I think this sire is just one more to add to that always growing list.
Remember all the tripe spouted from Aidan O'Brien last spring about how the ones he had were showing lots of speed he was really pleased with them,just like the year before with Footstepsinthesand's 2 y'olds and now Dylan Thomas.The fact was they had nothing very good nothing with any class and nothing looking like it might be good this year,he has as you point out lots of winners but only low level runners,he may bounce back but now without any real confidence behind him from a commercial point of view its going to very hard indeed,he needs a few good ones this season or I suspect he will be heading out to the far east no doubt joining the other champion Hawk Wing.
As for did he cop many of George Washington's mares,well I don't know how many but yes he had plenty of them it was a good commercial decision to retire him at the time and with the class mares from George's book he immediately had a great chance but he has been unable to deliver up to now anyway,we have used him but won't go back even now I think he is top heavy fee wise he imo would look better at 7.5k.



   "I am sure that some of his offspring treated a little more conservatively last year will come into there own this".

Wishful thinking perhaps![;)]

You do Pot M............you do!!

5K if you send a couple!

This colt is down as having sold to Mohammed Kazem Alansari at Tattersalls Book 1 October Yearling Sale, the naming would suggest Arabic ownership.

Well topfarrier shall I assume you have sent him at least one this year?Standing him for just 6k could seem a very attractive prospect,but to me it says more about the lack of confidence Coolmore have in him.He would make a sire who perhaps with a COLT would warrant a trip over to Doncaster for the St.Leger sales.But I'd be very aware at 6k most likely he wont be around to hear the happy news he has another child unless you don't mind ringing a far flung hot country way out east.
5k for a couple..............bid them 4k for 2!

If his record last year sums him up accurately, which we won't know until this year is out of the way, then I imagine he will be quite dependable at that job as he has stamped the aptitude of his own 2yo season pretty reliabley.

If you compare him to the established 2yo sires from Acclamation downwards then there is a strong case for calling him great value at these prices quoted.

Ofcourse, his biggest enemy at the moment is market perception, that's the hardest thing to call right now.

It's possible your HRE scenario jmc27. I wouldn't like to say how likely it is though!

I think HRE's fee is ridiculous especially when compared with Kodiac who's first book of mares would probably not have been as good.  HRE should be 4K tops.

Add to the conundrum mind, that Kodiac would  definitely have got cheap speed mares that may well have proved entirely compatible with his aspirations. Holy Roman's mares included plenty that may have got in the way of a 'stakes 2yolds' head start

If a stallion needs good mares to help his case (and in my opinion many sires, and mares for that matter do what they are destined to do regardless)then those mares will bring something to the mix that may not suit the stallion atall.

When you cover the book sizes that these two have, there has to be a strong possibility that they will cover some decent ones however unpromising the overall quality looks at the outset (Kodiac) and therefore this 1st crop will be a pretty accurate showing. IE. Kodiac may very well be where he belongs already (useful not great) and HRE is in a pretty similar spot but arriving from a different direction! (ofcourse HRE's mares allow some scope for improvement with his 3yo's)

Finally a group winner for HRE he has certainly not lived upto his billing but did have plenty of winners last season but lacked the group horses. He has covered some very good books and did produce alot of winners last season but do people see a future in him for producing group winning progeny. I certainly hope so

We all hope so Ripvan - well at least until we are all relieved of our interest in the horse [;)]

I've said all along that I didn't necessarily think that precocious 2yo's was his definite fit but as some on here pointed out, to what extent was I coming from a position of desperation?

Actually, the 4th ran okay at Leapardstown too and I think there will be more smartish ones to come.
But there's no getting away from the fact that he is coming from a place of puzzlement/disappointment and that's a tough climb in this game.

Didn't everyone doubt Danehill at the start Prima? he was a cheapish sire for a good few years and nothing very exciting happened until the better mares came on stream.
But I like your analogy - Let's hope HRE is the new Danehill by September! [;)]

another good wknd for the holy roman. group3 winner in italy n a nice 2yo winner friday nite. wrs/runners is a very healthy 29percent. he ll still have to sire a gp1 to get any recognistion i persume

Pot M, is HRE a stallion you would consider sending another one to this or next year?

Imperial Rome looks the stand out of what he has produced so far. His 3yr old crop aside look very average. However i like to judge him after this year 2yr old season to see how he goes before making a rash judgement.

Bolger again doing his bit for HRE....has quite a few 2yr olds by him.

I'm taken no more punts on this horse for a while, i think we've used him every year so far and his sales returns haven't been bad but the results on the track haven't been the best.

HRE is actually starting to get some momentum behind him.

My Propeller.

I've never seen a 2yo win like it, reasonable time too. It'll be fascinating to see if there was any element of fluke there.

Welcome Prima. Are you still a little woozy after Ascot or fully recovered. (impressive if so!)

I notice that HRE is 4th in the 2yo sire list and 8th in the general list. The latter is respectable enough - certainly as the next 2nd season sire Iffraaj is 47th or so! The Noseda colt and the Chapple Hyam filly look potentially much better than his 1st crop juveniles so I think there is definite progress. - I'm certainly a bit happier but we could always do with more[:p].

Any Ascot gossip?

Yes indeed, the Firebreak filly did look great and although the fillies finished quite close up I didn't think they looked a bad bunch. I can't decide on MarkofEsteem as a broodmare sire, he has certainly had some great results, but is that because of the £30k fee covered mares at the off?

I'm a Frankel man through and through. But they need to get the riding sorted. I wonder how much Ridingbootgate affected Goldi! I think Canford could be vulnerable as he isn't tactically the most versatile perhaps, but Frankel could be a sitting duck or could be too far infront to care. Mouthwatering. . .

Thanks for the wave, grateful I'm sure . I thought some of your waistcoats a little dubious and did you really need to jump up and down behind Clare and Willie to get on the telly between every race?