Pivotal's fee down to 55K

Still think it's 15k too high!

A 30K swing in prices between him and Oasis Dream for 2011 is interesting.

I'd say it's not interesting it's illuminating!

He's had one quiet year

Sariska and Seta never had the seasons we all expected, Siyouni and Emerald Commander were both disappointments and he didn't have any big 2yos - so  a discount is inevitable


But if I was after a stallion producing decent Group 1 winners like Excellent Art, Falco and Virtual I'd be expecting what to pay what the Richardsons are asking

I reckon the Cheveley Park gang are asking that price because they know full well he has some serious rivals now that are much hotter prospects than him,his price reflects that he is slipping back where as the other emerging sires are moving forward and look likely to leave him a long way behind!What would you call a bad GR1 winner humzini if you think Virtual was a good one?

Plenty of reasons still to use him methinks.

However a quieter season and his 18th birthday looming makes an adjustment pretty inevitable.

How could you be so cruel about the 'great' Virtual Prima [;)]

If you are a commercial breeder you have GOT TO LOOK FORWARD the plain facts are Pivotal is going backwards now along with his son Kyllachy who has been overpriced for too long!

Agree its about looking forward and know you dont like Pivotal (and I agree £45k is a better mark) but facts dont support you suggesting Kyllachy isnt commercial / going backwards.  Median sale price has stood up remarkably well to the downturn...but Chris....nobody notices that and you should give me a good price.

I think you can make a case for Kyllachy but not at 10k that is too much plenty of his did not make the fee back let alone other costs.

Kyllachy is down to 8K for 2011. Medicean down 3K to 12K also.

Well that's better than the idiotic 10k but when you look at his sales imo and no two way's about it he's starting to look old hat now 5k asking would be better then deal form 3.5k upwards.Compton Place,Piccolo,Petong all went the same way dropped off the commercial cliff,two more lining up soon those being Kyllachy and Royal Applause,those using these stallions are you so sure they will still be popular in 2013 if you sell yearlings?

Kyllachy and Medicean were properly full last season so I suppose Cheveley get complacent. I don't know it to be fact but I think their fees are set very much with a smug 'we'll fill we're independant' (Coolmore/Darley free).

Kyllachy gets an incredible ammount of winners and in my opinion deserves to be a little more commercially successful, but the fact is he isn't and should be priced accordingly.

Medicean has also lots of plus points and some thumping sales prices over the years. But he too is not straightforward to assess and ambiguity is the enemy in the sales stakes.

I think that the Lemmings you mention Prima were not nearly as good sires as the two 'next to go' leppers! So I would say they have a longer shelf life. However, the market isn't necessarily going to get more patient is it.

I think you are right about Cheveley Park and the independent tag they have enjoyed up until now,none more so than the mighty Pivotal but now people have some real class hot sires to choose the Cheveley band will fast look stale and old hat.
I find it hard to see how a sire like Piccolo or Compton Place is any less of a sire than Kyllachy perhaps Petong is a little behind them but I can remember when he was commercial.B'Bounty needs a good 2y'old we are always told his best are coming thing is we never see it if it ever is coming somehow I doubt it. These stallions are at their level and if you are commercial then you surely must see that. They all need a very good horse very soon or they will be just has been sires who only a few will want.With the new wave of fashionable preciosity plenty of buyers will want these new stallion's stock leaving the likes of Kyllachy and co way long behind.

Seems a ridiculous price. That means the progeny need to sell for £70k plus to break even and only a minority of them will make that. Pivotal is being overtaken by 2 of his sons in Kyllachy and Captain Rio. Still a very successful sire though.

The Thompson's have ALWAYS had totally unique ideas about pricing their stallions,they go up and down like a yo yo.Is Pivotal really that good?Or has his popularity sprung from the Darley/Coolmore boycott at the sales?Lots saw him as neutral,now mind he has some real opposition in the expensive stallion bracket,the Thompson's know this hence his fee reduction,give him a little longer he will trading at 25k or less,55k for him you must be joking 35k you could take a chance.

I've spent most of this evening searching for aviating pigs, but have yet to spot any. When I do I'll give a little thought to Kyllachy and Captain Rio being better sires than their Father

Depends on your criteria. Mine is number of winners in a year and Kyllachy has matched Pivotal on that score while Captain Rio is getting closer.

As a punter number of winners must be important sageform and as I've said before I enjoy those statistics. Please accept my apologies for a flippant comment.