Bloodstock & Breeding

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09 Oct 10 09:34
Date Joined: 09 Nov 05
| Topic/replies: 28 | Blogger: Flippit's blog
Looking at some of the names (and their pedigrees) of horses likely to be retiring to stud this year, they are hardly stand outs. This is the first year in quite some time that there hasn't been an outstanding individual to retire to either Coolmore or Darley.

I think the fact that Cabford Cliffs (a son of none other than TAGULA) is going to Coolmore shows the lack of quality they have to retire this year. He has a very ordinary pedigree and a son of a very unfashionable horse.

Makfi, being a son od Dubawi would seem popular, and then you see his fee...... 25 does seem a little pricey in my opinion. The owners plan on shuttling him, but Dubawi hasn't set thr world alight anywhere other than Europe, so that could be a difficult move to make.

The recent sales are showing that only four or five stallions are wanted - Dansili, Galileo, Oasis Dream and Montjeu. Dubawi probably wouldn't have covered an outstanding book second or third year, so his prices aren't exactly great.

It's becoming very hard to find good commercial horses that you don't have to pay a fortune for in Europe at the moment.

I think it was a very good move for Coolmore to reverse shuttle Fastnet Rock last season, and I think we will see plenty more of that in the coming years.
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Report The Gotchee October 11, 2010 11:18 PM BST
Echo of Light, like Dubawi a son of Dubai Millennium has a serious pedigree.First runners will be seen on the racecourse in  2011. His race record wasn't too bad either. At 4K Euros he may prove to be a decent alternative to Dubawi. Anyone know how many mares he covered in his first crop?
Report neill d October 12, 2010 9:34 AM BST
Seriously handsome horse if I remember, wasn't he a million pound yearling or something
Report RipVanWinkle October 12, 2010 5:24 PM BST
PD you heard anything about coolmore for next year?Mischief
Report Prima Donna October 12, 2010 5:42 PM BST
Not yet Rip Van,we are up here at the moment,I think Slick has spoken to you know who,but the way their sires are going I doubt we will be using so many of them next year,our better mares would be better with Juddmonte, INS,and dare I say it Darley (Dubawi)being commercial you always have to go with wants wanted,results are speaking loud and clear,Coolmore don't have a great deal to come on next tearm.
We are doing alright last week we had some good sales our highest price was a joint venture but we were very happy this week its fine without getting huge returns,saying that mind lots of breeders have come off with glum faces,we have lost on some,but its the name of the game.Are you planning to go back to Coolmore?Prices I think will be lower.......and need to be.
Report RipVanWinkle October 12, 2010 7:10 PM BST
We'll use a few collmore stallions but will spread it about more as we've got better mares now and will have a couple more by the new year.
Report RipVanWinkle October 12, 2010 7:35 PM BST
Coolmore sorry. I'd say that with the better mares we now have the more we'll use more commercial sires. We were some of the lucky ones at goffs for the yearling sale so hopefully the foal sale will go as good. We've also been searching the catalogue for the mares sale and have found some interesting mares. Prices must come down for everything to keep going but i cant see the juddmonte stallions coming down much, invincible spirit i'd say will remain the same but he should have a good year next year, a few darley horses will go up. So really anything commercial isn't going to go down. There should be serious drops in some of the coolmore horses we've had a bad year with our matings
Report Prima Donna October 12, 2010 7:59 PM BST
I wouldn't expect the Juddmonte horses to alter. Dubawi will surely go up. But the Coolmore brigade need to come down. We almost certainly will use Danehill Dancer again. We have had success with his stock both in the ring and on the track. I still think he is a good sire but just never seems to hit the heights you would imagine at the sales. Galileo is another likely one on the list as colt or filly if it's nice you should do well.
It is a good time to be buying mares Rip Van and you should get some attractive coverings for not too much money.Do you buy foals or sell them?
Report DMCK October 13, 2010 12:05 AM BST
what is the opinion on Dalakhani as a commerical stallion. a young staillion with a great record and the aga khan backing(works very well with both Danehill and SW lines) but i dont recall him setting the sales ring on fire. has anyone used him and or planning on using him this year?
Report RipVanWinkle October 13, 2010 12:12 AM BST
We usually sell nearly everything as foals or yearlings but purchased two nice sorts at goffs and tatts. We saw this as a good time to change as the mares we had were really going knowhere. We are not at a large enough scale to be using galileo as ends would not meet if we did, but our coverings will be much more commercial from now on. We have purchased some nice stock in the last few months and will continue to do so.

Dalakhani isn't getting any more fashionable but will add to the breed as a successor to darshaan as a broodmare sire
Report Prima Donna October 13, 2010 7:01 AM BST
DMCK,Rip Van has hit the nail on the head with his assessment of Dalakhani,never truly commercial and can get colts that look like filly's that also are light of bone,though some would say they are all quality.
None of the Aga Khan's stallions are ever really commercial but they can become very good BM sires like Rip Van says Dalakhani will slot into this well.

Rip Van,We will be buying some new mares this season along with at least one foal(for me)Slick got a filly at Goffs to race by a good 2'year old with BLK type who should be commercial,like you our plans need to be much more commercial and not mostly going you know where[;)]good luck with your foals and the new mares.
Report RipVanWinkle October 13, 2010 4:29 PM BST
We'll be looking at mares at goffs and maybe tatts not quite sure we'll see what happens. Buying foals is much cheaper and is a good choice as there is value in buying foals(but they can change quick)
I thought Azamour would have taken off a bit better as he was well supported. I shall be on the lookout for a Dalakhani mare as he got some very very good mares so the breeding is in his progeny.

What do you think darley will retire next year
Report Prima Donna October 14, 2010 9:06 PM BST
I don't know that Darley have anything to retire this year do they? Poets Voice stays in training and Delegator is only just back after his layoff. Saamid is only 2yo  and hasn't done enough as yet. I suppose that this is the result of a few years of poor results. any in hiding that I may have forgotten?
This game continues to surprise though doesn't it, who would have thought Sir Percy and Cockney rebel would have sold so well.On racecourse achievements that is nothing less than they shoud do but with both unfashionable pedigree's and not from the right connections their success has been an eyeopener.
Coolmore sires are really on the cold list now. Almost everyone I have spoken too have said that the Arab sires are the only way to go and Coolmore have got to get real about what they stand and for how much.The tide seems to be turning perhaps a new era is coming.
I have an idea why Makfi is so expensive, D Redvers needs to get back some of the money he spent on that banner!!!!Again, general feeling is that Makfi is far too high.
Report potentialmillionaire October 14, 2010 10:29 PM BST
I shall continue to shop here there and everywhere I think.

We can witter on about pedigrees, sirelines, race records, stallion masters etc etc. - and shall continue to do so!

But as is proved time and time again and perhaps more markedly this year, a good looking individual is what is required almost exclusively. If you are lucky to couple your good looking foal with a whole crop of similar types by your chosen sire, then that is payday time.

P.s. Makfi has to pay for all those smart brown fleecy waistcoats too Prima. Laugh
Report Prima Donna October 15, 2010 11:19 AM BST
Good to see you back Pot'M, how did you get on with yours?Do I remeber you saying that you had a Sir Percy or had used him? Looks like a good move now if you had
As we are still here for the racing I put my head in and had a look this morning.Grim I think is the word. Glad not to have anything to sell at Book 3.I don't think that the idea of running Book 3 straight off the back of a mammoth Bk2 is such a great idea though.It just pulls down the last day of Bk2 and no-one has had time to sit and think about what they have bought from the last sale before being plunged straight back into it all. There were so many horses through the ring last week that agents heads must be spinning.They don't know how quickly they can sell what they have just got and now looking at cheaper on spec purchases it can only lead to poor sale with buyers being cautious. A rethink is needed Tatts.
Report neill d October 15, 2010 2:06 PM BST
On the subject of Sir Percy, I remember Tregonning saying in an interview a good while back that he was getting really nice foals, though he would say that wouldn't he. I'm not so surprised by his popularity because I think it was the only part of the interview where Tregonning got in any way animated, he genuinely seemed excited by them and presumsbly he'll be sent a few.
Report Tiswallaceno7 October 16, 2010 8:05 PM BST
I think the Buying of a Street Cry in America a few weeks ago was a peace offering. I think Coolmore need a need line and a Mr Prospector line would go some way to addressing the Northern Dancer overflow in Europe. Its a tricky what Magnier is doing....he i am sure reconizes that Coolmore need to diversify their breeding shed to remain competitve. Especially since Darley are going well with their new sires
Report potentialmillionaire October 18, 2010 8:12 PM BST
I'm back good and proper now lads - sorry!

I had a weekend escape after the sales disaster to try and pull back from Beachy Head.

As I think I said elsewhere, I did not travel to Tatts hopefully, but am still surprised by the ferocity of the rejection.

Neither yearling sold, but I managed to move the lesser light (i.m.o) at the sale and funnily enough a trainer is coming to see the better one later in the week which is entirely at his behest. Also I have had an approach for the lesser light via Tatts too! So with two buyers sniffing around I am not sure I should agree with you Prima that folks couldn't cope with the length of the sale/s.Mischief

However, I remain entirely with you. If people get chance to regroup for a week or so before a lesser sale then enthusiasm and orders might be rekindled. Keeping people enthused for what they perceive to be bad horses after 10 days at the job surely can't be the way ahead in a weak market can it?

Sir Percy always seemed like a great gamble to me. He had one overwhelming problem - fashion -.
But that soon gets forgotten if the 1st crop hit the sales looking good and then folks are left with a great race record, relative precocity and a fee of only 8k. I can't say how it's worked for me, but I don't regret trying!
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